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Hi Ed,
so it’s ok to make an image?
Do you see the fullstop?“You shall not make for yourself an image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. FULLSTOP.
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
Just trying to get to the honest truth!
You say “Islam bows down to a square cube”.
Well, Catholics bow down to a statue.Hi Everyone,
Muhammad is 10 for 10, teaching his followers to break all 10 of God’s commandments.
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODJust trying to get to the honest truth!
You say “Islam bows down to a square cube”. Well, Catholics bow down to a statue.
“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach
them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)Hi Everyone,
Muhammad is 10 for 10, teaching his followers to break all 10 of God’s commandments.
Hi Ed. Without pointing fingers at a particular group perhaps we could look at our own lives.
Seems to me that commandment number one is speaking about Yahweh, the God of gods and the Lord of lords. Jesus is the Lord of lords. We have one God and one Lord, the great and mighty God Yahweh. I bow down and serve both the Father and the Son. Every knee shall bow…
hi Lightenup.
“I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before Me.
I understand that trinitarians see that verse as saying that YHWH God is three persons in one God.
However, I see the one God, YHWH, in that verse. I see further on in the New Testament Jesus the Son of God who obeyed that verse perfectly. He was our example of how we should be and we know He prayed to the Father, we know He spoke of the one true God. We know as a Son, He did everything He saw His Father doing, and we know with our own children that if they copy us… they are not us. Though, they are that important to us, that as scripture says of the Son of God..18“There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.
31He has come from above and is greater than anyone else. We are of the earth, and we speak of earthly things, but he has come from heaven and is greater than anyone else. 32He testifies about what he has seen and heard, but how few believe what he tells them! 33Anyone who accepts his testimony can affirm that God is true. 34For he is sent by God. He speaks God’s words, for God gives him the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves his Son and has put everything into his hands. 36And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.” (John 3).
So I believe Jesus was our true example of obeying the first commandant.
On saying that, I try not to judge others perspectives anymore. If one person sees three persons in one God, I am curious how they see things and do keep an open mind….. but I really don’t think that a Christian’s perspective on the matter will make much difference in the end, because of the above verses in John. That’s just my opinion.
Hello Milia,
Surely when there are more than one person as a unity, it can be difficult when the unity is represented as one voice. We do have that example in the nation Israel and in the church though. The question is whether or not that is what is occurring when we read things like this: “I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before Me.
Many Christians understand that YHWH is the unity of the Father, Son and Spirit. One of the persons of this unity, while remaining in unity with the Father, came to earth to exalt and explain the Father with whom He has been a part of. When the Son was to leave the earth, He sent the Holy Spirit who exalts and explains the Son. The result was the understanding of the fullness of God, more fully…as Father and Son and Spirit in unison. We can know this because of the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
In the OT, things of God are done in the name of YHWH, in the NT, things of God are addressed to the Father, in the name of the Son. That is quite different.
In the OT, YHWH is prayed to. In the NT, the Father and the Son are prayed to. That is also quite different.
In the OT, mercy and grace are sought after from YHWH. In the NT, mercy and grace are sought after from the Father and the Son. That is another big difference.
I would think that there must be some sort of spiritual blindness to not see this obvious difference and acknowledge that our salvation is from two persons, not just one.
Some people who claim to worship YHWH do not seem to understand that YHWH is both the God of gods and the Lord of lords and that is two persons as Paul clarifies for us and tells us that we have one God and one Lord and speaks of them as two persons. The Spirit is an extension of them and seems to me to be their omnipresence although some think of the Spirit as another person, I have yet to understand this if this is so.
So, in regards to: “I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before Me,” since YHWH is both God of gods and the Lord of lords, we should honor both as YHWH and not only recognize one as YHWH. That would truly be obeying the first commandment as I understand it.
So, yes, Jesus honored the first commandment. He truly knew who YHWH was and that He, was a part of YHWH as the Lord of lords. He also spent quite of bit of teaching to clarify that He, as the Son, the Lord of lords, was NOT the Father. Some people try to make them the same person but scripture is clear that they are distinct.
God bless!
Hi Lightenup. Thanks.
I can understand you reasoning to say YHWH is a unity, and your reference to Israel and the church as an example of a unity. And, I agree we can’t have the Father without the Son, and I see the differences in the Old and New Testaments as you pointed out. I agree there is a unity of Father and Son… but, the “unity” also involves the church… and there is an order to that unity… with us under the Father and Son. But, that does not make us the YHWH of the commandment, and it is Him we should worship.
I see Jesus in Daniel 7, in Daniels night visions.
(Young’s Literal Translation)
9‘I was seeing till that thrones have been thrown down, and the Ancient of Days is seated, His garment as snow [is] white, and the hair of his head [is] as pure wool, His throne flames of fire, its wheels burning fire.
10A flood of fire is proceeding and coming forth from before Him, a thousand thousands do serve Him, and a myriad of myriads before Him do rise up, the Judge is seated, and the books have been opened.
11‘I was seeing, then, because of the voice of the great words that the horn is speaking, I was seeing till that the beast is slain, and his body hath been destroyed, and given to the burning fire;
12and the rest of the beasts have caused their dominion to pass away, and a prolongation in life is given to them, till a season and a time.
13‘I was seeing in the visions of the night, and lo, with the clouds of the heavens as a son of man was [one] coming, and unto the Ancient of Days he hath come, and before Him they have brought him near.
14And to him is given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, and all peoples, nations, and languages do serve him, his dominion [is] a dominion age-during, that passeth not away, and his kingdom that which is not destroyed.
So, we see in Daniels vision the Ancient of Days (YHWH), and we see one like the son of man (Jesus) coming to the Ancient of Days (YHWH)….He is brought near, and dominion, glory, kingdom, peoples, nations and languages are given to Him.
And in John 20:17, Jesus said, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Do you believe that a Christian who is “non-trinitarian” is breaking the first commandment somehow, or not?
@milia
you asked:But, that does not make us the YHWH of the commandment, and it is Him we should worship.
Being in unity with God as a member of the church does not make you YHWH, that is correct. Being either the God of gods or the Lord of lords makes you YHWH. YHWH is the God of gods and the Lord of lords. The scripture is clear about that. YHWH is not the God of gods and the Lord of lords and the church of churches. He is the God of gods and the Lord of lords.
In Daniel’s vision you see two persons, one is YHWH as the God of gods and the other is YHWH as the Lord of lords who became the Son of Man. Together they are YHWH the God of gods and Lord of lords. It is confusing because God and Lord are sorta interchangeable titles. Context helps and the fact that the Father isn’t seen by the living in reality also helps to know who is being spoken about, whether the unity is represented, or the Father, or the Son according to His divinity, or the Son according to His flesh.
you asked:
Do you believe that a Christian who is “non-trinitarian” is breaking the first commandment somehow, or not?
Good question.
You do not have to be a trinitarian to know that the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit are together in unity as YHWH. I don’t consider myself a trinitarian because I do not understand the Holy Spirit as a separate person like the Father and the Son are. I do not deny the Holy Spirit’s existence and part in YHWH however. I just think that the Holy Spirit is the spirit OF the Father and the Son, united, and maybe what is known as their personal and mighty omnipresence.If they are blatantly denying who YHWH is, then they are breaking the first commandment, imo. Blatantly denying that YHWH is both the Father and the Son with the Holy Spirit would be breaking the first commandment as I understand it. If you are open to that truth and are seeking to know the fullness of YHWH but you just aren’t sure, yet you honor the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit above all and follow them with all your heart and mind, then I don’t think you are breaking the first commandment. Let God be judge of that though. He knows the heart.
I hope that helps.
Hi Lightenup.
Firstly, it is “miia” with 2 i’s 🙂 (Then your @ will work!)
I have been doing a lot of thinking and reconnecting through prayer the past couple of days… I’ll leave it there for now but, thanks for your well written explanation.
Do we both agree the Ten Commandments were not “done away with”?
Miia…….WHAT DOES THIS SCRIPTURE MEANTO YOU? By the woks of the law shall no flesh be justified before GOD?
WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOU TAKE ON THAT. Please read ROM 3:20-27.ROMANS 3:28…..Therefore we “conclude” THAT A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH “without” THE DEEDS OF THE “LAW”.
YOUR PROBLEM IN THISI BELIEVE IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANING THE MEANING OF THE WORD LAW AS PAUL WAS USING IT. The meaning of the term law, is FORCED COMPLIANCE, GOD put his “COMMANDMENTS” INTO THE FORM OF LAWS, they originally were just comandments, but a commandment is not a LAW, BUT BECAUSE OF DISOBEDIANCE, GOD TURNED THEM INTO LAW’S, and statues (infoced compliance). But that can never make a heart right before GOD, SO then Paul says, by the way LAW “WORKS”, NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED BEFOR GOD., why because no LAW can make a heart right.
Therefore GOD SAYS ” I (GOD) WILL TAKE OUT OF THEM THE HEART OF STONE (heard heart) AND GIVE THEM A HEART OF FLESH (soft heart) and I (GOD) WILL WRITEN MY LAW IN THEIR “INWARD” PARTS, and then they will be my people and I WILL BE THEIR GOD.
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
@miia 🙂 sorry to have misspelled your name…my glasses need to be checked, ha.
you asked:
Do we both agree the Ten Commandments were not “done away with”?
Very good question. Here are my thoughts:
I agree that the ten commandments have not been done away with; they have been fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled them and by that and His becoming the perfect sacrifice, we are no longer aiming to fulfill the ten commandments and we are no longer looking ahead for a Messiah to fulfill them. That has happened. Now we live in the realization that the ten commandments have been fulfilled by the Messiah and He has redeemed us. Now, by faith in the Messiah’s work, we live as if redeemed and not like we need redemption. For those who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, they are still living as if they need to fulfill the law. They need to know Jesus as the Messiah and accept His payment for their sins and make Him LORD of their life in order to be free from this.
Now, if you live like you have been redeemed, then you will allow the Holy Spirit to work in you towards having perfect love towards the LORD and your neighbor and yourself. In that kind of living, you will not steal from your neighbor, murder, etc. The two commandments that Jesus gives, sums up the spirit of the ten commandments. Love the LORD, love others.
Miia…….WHAT DOES THIS SCRIPTURE MEANTO YOU? By the woks of the law shall no flesh be justified before GOD?
WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOU TAKE ON THAT. Please read ROM 3:20-27.ROMANS 3:28…..Therefore we “conclude” THAT A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH “without” THE DEEDS OF THE “LAW”.
Gene, do you have some scissors? If so then you have a lot of scripture to cut out if you believe that we no longer have to obey the Ten Commandments. Hint: Jesus died for our sins, yes. But we must stop Sinning, or else there is no longer a sacrifice for our sins (Heb 10:26). If we do sin then we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. But we must stop turn and Obey Him. Do we agree?
Paul is twisted by people as Peter warned. I do not understand him so I do not go there.
YOUR PROBLEM IN THISI BELIEVE IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANING THE MEANING OF THE WORD LAW AS PAUL WAS USING IT. The meaning of the term law, is FORCED COMPLIANCE, GOD put his “COMMANDMENTS” INTO THE FORM OF LAWS, they originally were just comandments, but a commandment is not a LAW, BUT BECAUSE OF DISOBEDIANCE, GOD TURNED THEM INTO LAW’S, and statues (infoced compliance). But that can never make a heart right before GOD, SO then Paul says, by the way LAW “WORKS”, NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED BEFOR GOD., why because no LAW can make a heart right.
Therefore GOD SAYS ” I (GOD) WILL TAKE OUT OF THEM THE HEART OF STONE (heard heart) AND GIVE THEM A HEART OF FLESH (soft heart) and I (GOD) WILL WRITEN MY LAW IN THEIR “INWARD” PARTS, and then they will be my people and I WILL BE THEIR GOD.
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
Agree. So, we still have to obey the commandments because they are Written on our Heart, even if we have never Heard the ten commandments before… we just know what is right or wrong… is that what you are meaning? If so I agree.
@miia
sorry to have misspelled your name…my glasses need to be checked, ha.Hi Lightenup, it’s ok. My name used to get mixed up with Carmel (another user), so I shortened it.
I agree that the ten commandments have not been done away with; they have been fulfilled
Amen. Fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
Jesus fulfilled them and by that and His becoming the perfect sacrifice, we are no longer aiming to fulfill the ten commandments and we are no longer looking ahead for a Messiah to fulfill them. That has happened. Now we live in the realization that the ten commandments have been fulfilled by the Messiah and He has redeemed us. Now, by faith in the Messiah’s work, we live as if redeemed and not like we need redemption. For those who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, they are still living as if they need to fulfill the law. They need to know Jesus as the Messiah and accept His payment for their sins and make Him LORD of their life in order to be free from this.
Now, if you live like you have been redeemed, then you will allow the Holy Spirit to work in you towards having perfect love towards the LORD and your neighbor and yourself. In that kind of living, you will not steal from your neighbor, murder, etc. The two commandments that Jesus gives, sums up the spirit of the ten commandments. Love the LORD, love others.
I think I agree with you.
The Ten Commandments are still standing, and if anything they have become “harder” (Adultery is lustful thoughts, murder is hating a brother, etc,.) though not harder because it is on our hearts. We obey, after salvation, because we love God and His Son and because we love our neighbor, not because we have to.
“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach
them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)Ed,
That does not necessarily mean the person in question is “in” the kingdom of heaven does it?
Miia…….SCRIPTURE SAY “WE ARE “CREATED” UNTO GOOD WORKS”, A LAW CAN NEVER CREATE make a man right in his or her heart. Therefore as Paul said. “By the way law “works”, through “fear” because of the penalty a law extracts, which can cause obediance to it. But that kind of obedience is a fear based obediance, and what does scripture say about that.
Gal 2:16….knowing that a man is not justified (made right in the eyes of God) by works of law,(or by the way law works) but by the faith of Jesus christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by the faith of Jesus Christ, and not by the works of law: for by works of law shall no flesh be justified.
But is that saying we should continue to sin, no it is not! How can we if GOD HAS TAKEN OUT OF US THE HARD HEART AND GIVEN US A HEART OF FLESH, AND WRITTEN HIS LAW IN OUR INWARD Parts. JUST as it says, “for we are being “CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS”. AND AGAIN, God works in us both to will and do of his good pleasure. We are a “new creation in Christ, being CREATED unto good works. So how can we continue in sin if we are being made right by God’s spirit at work in us?
But no man can boast by obedience to the law either seening that obediance is a Cretion of God. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
Gene, you said quote: Therefore as Paul said. “By the way law “works”, through “fear” because of the penalty a law extracts, which can cause obediance to it. But that kind of obedience is a fear based obediance, and what does scripture say about that. Unquote. Scripture says “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.”
We can fear God in unhealthy ways such as in the false belief in eternal conscious torment in hell for one. However, once we know God and his love we do not fear God in the same unhealthy way… we fear God instead in love!
But is that saying we should continue to sin, no it is not! How can we if GOD HAS TAKEN OUT OF US THE HARD HEART AND GIVEN US A HEART OF FLESH, AND WRITTEN HIS LAW IN OUR INWARD Parts. JUST as it says, “for we are being “CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS”. AND AGAIN, God works in us both to will and do of his good pleasure. We are a “new creation in Christ, being CREATED unto good works. So how can we continue in sin if we are being made right by God’s spirit at work in us?
So what are we arguing about then? I think we agree.
Could we look at the first and second commandment with all perspective of God and Jesus, trinity and nontrinty aside?
I think I agree with you.
Yeah!
The Ten Commandments are still standing, and if anything they have become “harder” (Adultery is lustful thoughts, murder is hating a brother, etc,.) though not harder because it is on our hearts. We obey, after salvation, because we love God and His Son and because we love our neighbor, not because we have to.
You’re right, Jesus wants us filled with perfect,pure love, not surface love. He gave us the Holy Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The people in the OT did not have the gift of the Holy Spirit to work in and through them but we do when Jesus is LORD of our lives.
His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
God bless!
LU,
You’re right, Jesus wants us filled with perfect,pure love, not surface love. He gave us the Holy Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The people in the OT did not have the gift of the Holy Spirit to work in and through them but we do when Jesus is LORD of our lives
That I agree with. Do you also believe Jesus pioneered walking by the Spirit of God?
LU,
Miia is correct. Not one stitch will be removed from the Law of Moses until Jesus returns and said “it is finished”. The Law of Moses was never meant to apply to Gentile with the exception of it righteous requirements.
The covenant of Jesus Christ did not do away with the Law of Moses but instead it gave man the power to do all it says. The Gentiles are not Jews and have no reason to act like Jews. Except for the righteous requirements in the Law the rest are Jewish customs , and Jews have their customs just like other people throughout the world.
Salvation, whether for the Jew or the Gentile, comes by living by the teachings of the Spirit of God.
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