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Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2014,04:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2014,20:56) To All… The Soul is the “COMPLETE” Person NOT PART of HIM. When He DIES HIS SOUL DIES ALSO, and will remain DEAD until the Resurrection OF the DEAD, when God shall maKe another Body and add the breath of Life back into it, as Ezekiel plainly shows. If you all will read all the places in the old testament where the owed Soul is used you will find it is speaking of the complete person, rather animals, man, or God. Peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Gene,So the complete person is in the blood. Does that make sense to you?
Kerwin……fact is the complete you is in the blood, that is where your life is, They can take from you blood you COMPLETE DNA , billions of cell structures that created you and sustain you and your life.Kerwin, why do you think God said he heard ABLE'S blood crying from the ground. Gen 4:10' Do you think God was lying about that also?
Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2014,00:30) Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2014,04:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2014,20:56) To All… The Soul is the “COMPLETE” Person NOT PART of HIM. When He DIES HIS SOUL DIES ALSO, and will remain DEAD until the Resurrection OF the DEAD, when God shall maKe another Body and add the breath of Life back into it, as Ezekiel plainly shows. If you all will read all the places in the old testament where the owed Soul is used you will find it is speaking of the complete person, rather animals, man, or God. Peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Gene,So the complete person is in the blood. Does that make sense to you?
Keratin……fact is the complete you is in the blood, that is where your life is, They can take from you blood you COMPLETE DNA , billions of cell structures that created you and sustain you and your life.Kerwin, why do you think God said he heard ABLE'S blood crying from the ground. Gen 4:10' Do you think God was lying about that also?
Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
geneour DNA is found in all the parts of our body not only in the blood ,
do not say things that do not look smart
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2014,00:30) Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2014,04:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2014,20:56) To All… The Soul is the “COMPLETE” Person NOT PART of HIM. When He DIES HIS SOUL DIES ALSO, and will remain DEAD until the Resurrection OF the DEAD, when God shall maKe another Body and add the breath of Life back into it, as Ezekiel plainly shows. If you all will read all the places in the old testament where the owed Soul is used you will find it is speaking of the complete person, rather animals, man, or God. Peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Gene,So the complete person is in the blood. Does that make sense to you?
Keratin……fact is the complete you is in the blood, that is where your life is, They can take from you blood you COMPLETE DNA , billions of cell structures that created you and sustain you and your life.Kerwin, why do you think God said he heard ABLE'S blood crying from the ground. Gen 4:10' Do you think God was lying about that also?
Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Gene,The DNA is the blueprint for our physical side but men have a spiritual side as well.
Is the body part of the complete person or is the complete person the spiritual side?
Kerwin…….Yes the body is part of the person, if his brain has been damaged it will reflect his personality , why does that happen if the body is not part of the person?
Many personality dysfunctions are caused by a physical brain disfunction, you can not separate a persons Soul from His body, and expect him to still be ALIVE. He is not ALIVE, but truly DEAD, when his body DIES. That is completely it, for that person until the resurrection takes place, there is NO, works, nor KNOWLEDGE, nor thoughts, in the grave where you go when you DIE, . God said “DUST” “YOU ARE” and DUST “YOU” SHALL RETURN.
We are told in Ecc 9:5….. For the Living know that they shall “DIE”: but the “DEAD” know not “ANY THING”, neither have they any more reward; because the memory of them is forgotten. (6) also their love, and their, hatred, and their envy, IS now “PARISHED” ; neither have they any more a portion “FOREVER” in anything that is done under the sun
Do you see the words PERISHED, and the word FOREVER written there?
The question do you believe God and what he said or not !
Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2014,21:32) Kerwin…….Yes the body is part of the person, if his brain has been damaged it will reflect his personality , why does that happen if the body is not part of the person? Many personality dysfunctions are caused by a physical brain disfunction, you can not separate a persons Soul from His body, and expect him to still be ALIVE. He is not ALIVE but truly DEAD when his body DIES. That is completely it for that person until the resurrection takes place, there is NO, works, nor KNOWLEDGE, nor thoughts, in the grave where you go when you DIE, . God said “DUST” “YOU ARE” and DUST “YOU” SHALL RETURN.
We are told in Ecc 9:5….. For the Living know that they shall “DIE”: but the “DEAD” know not “ANY THING”, neither have they any more reward; because the memory of them is forgotten. (6) also their love, and their, hatred, and their envy, IS now “PARISHED” ; neither have they any more a portion “FOREVER” in anything that is done under the sun
Do you see the words PERISHED, and the word FOREVER written there?
The question do you believe God and what he said or not !
Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene,The way you choose to interpret Ecc 9:5 gives you an untrue conclusion as the righteous dead do in fact have a reward remaining and the memory of them is not forgotten for God remembers them. It is only the wicked dead who have no reward remaining for they are subject to judgement. They will no longer be remembered after the second death.
” neither have they any more reward” means that is no more reward for them forever.
Gene,
Quote Kerwin…….Yes the body is part of the person, if his brain has been damaged it will reflect his personality , why does that happen if the body is not part of the person? There are Jews that believe the soul without the body is a shadow of a person lacking personality and strength. I am not sure but they are obviously diminished just like a driver without a car is diminished in those thing the car does for him.
A person requires both a soul and a body to be complete.
Kerwin………… WE are not talking about the rightious or the unrightious here, we are talking about a Soul any soul good or bad.
So you deny that the Soul turns back to the dust from which it came right? And you are telling us that God took something other than Just dust and the breath of life toi make a Living Soul, and we are not truly suject to what God own mouth Said, and that is from the dust “YOU” (all of what is a “YOU”) CAME, and to Dust “YOU” (all of the “YOU”) Shall return, your saying there is something he kept secret from us, and then Satan must be Right becasue he said “YOU SHALL NOT SHURLY “DIE” . Does that not put ypu on his side in this Kerwin?
It would help if you tried to understand what the word “YOU” is implying there if you ask me Kerwin. I do not see where God said a “PART” of you will retrun to Dust from which part of you came, do you?
Kerwin…………..the only thing that remain is the Spirit and it goes back to where it came from, the rest of you is gone completely and unless God choses to resurect a new Body and add the breath of life back into it you simply, after death do not exist. No matter what you want to believe and think you are still active and alive after you die that is nothing but a Lie forster by Satan himself, to make people disbelieve God and what he plainly said what would happen to us all have sinned.
God has a book of records that has recorded everything we have all done in this life, and those who are not written innthe Lambs book of Life will stand in Judgement of eternal death, all else will give an account of what he or she has at the judgement seat of Jesus Christ, and will recieve their reward or loss , but they will be saved “YET AS BY FIRE” just as it is written.
Kerwin those who think they are still alive after they die are only decieving themselves, they in that state are gone for ever, and will remain that way unless the LORD our GOD creates another Body, out of the Dust and breathes back into it the breath of life into it nostrils and then again there will exist another LIVING SOUL. Read the valley of dried bones in Ezekiel, and let me know if that also is not a true picture of what God will do for the “WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL”.
I have given you the scriptures word for word and you say the way i interpute them , come on Kerwin they are as clear as can be said and mean exactly what they say, how can you deny the many scriptures that plainly show when a man dies, his soul is dead also, he is NOT LIVING When He is DEAD KERWIN no matter who told you that, Not scripture say a man is still ALIVE when He is DEAD. They would not even use the word DEAD, if it did not truly mean DEAD.
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,05:06) Gene, Quote Kerwin…….Yes the body is part of the person, if his brain has been damaged it will reflect his personality , why does that happen if the body is not part of the person? There are Jews that believe the soul without the body is a shadow of a person lacking personality and strength. I am not sure but they are obviously diminished just like a driver without a car is diminished in those thing the car does for him.
A person requires both a soul and a body to be complete.
Kerwin………..Forget about what the Jew's think, They did not think Jesus was the Messiah either, and forget about Pierres car Soul garbage, none of that human reasoning is right, If there is not a single scripture that says exactely this, a Soul is still active and alive when a man DIES then you have nothing, but just human wishing and speculations.Kerwin………..if you truly do not believe your truly dead when you die you can even see the importance of the Resurection and that is exactly what Satan want people to think. He want you to not think when you die you are completely and truly wiped out of existence forever and unless God choese to resurect you and new body and add back the breath of life into it we are gone for ever He (GOD) is our “ONLY” HOPE of living again after we “DIE”
Kerwin do not get sucked in to those Lies forstered by the follower of Satan and his teachings.
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene,
The Jews are the people of God similar in the way the Christians are the children of God and to God they are the same religion. There are unbelievers among God's people in the time Jesus and before just as there has been to this very day.
Some Jews believed and they are the ones that took the message to the nations. Others did not and do not to this day and though there message is a mixture of truths and untruths they are no different than heretics among those that claim to follow Christ.
I have no doubt the soul is a shadow of the whole person as it not the whole person as you claim. The first creation of creature with souls happened on the Fifth day which would be easy to see if certain translators did not seem to have trouble with the idea that animals had souls. We are more than animals for we were also created to spiritual.e
We have a physical side which is our body, a natural side which is our soul, and a spiritual side which is from God. Your chosen teaching denies that fact. We are called to love God with our body, soul, and spirit not just with our soul.
Kerwin………Remove the Body and the Shadow no longer exists Right?.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,04:23) Gene, The Jews are the people of God similar in the way the Christians are the children of God and to God they are the same religion. There are unbelievers among God's people in the time Jesus and before just as there has been to this very day.
Some Jews believed and they are the ones that took the message to the nations. Others did not and do not to this day and though there message is a mixture of truths and untruths they are no different than heretics among those that claim to follow Christ.
I have no doubt the soul is a shadow of the whole person as it not the whole person as you claim. The first creation of creature with souls happened on the Fifth day which would be easy to see if certain translators did not seem to have trouble with the idea that animals had souls. We are more than animals for we were also created to spiritual.e
We have a physical side which is our body, a natural side which is our soul, and a spiritual side which is from God. Your chosen teaching denies that fact. We are called to love God with our body, soul, and spirit not just with our soul.
KQuote We are called to love God with our body, soul, and spirit not just with our soul. Mt 22:37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Dt 6:5 A) Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your 1) heart and with all your 2)Soul and with all your 3)mind and with all your 4) strength.’
JN 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
JN 15:12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.A) LOVE
1) HEART
2) SOUL
3) MIND
4) STRENGTH
TELL ME ARE WE MADE WITH THIS COMPOSITION AS ONE PERSON
AND IF SO WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE “ALL”
BUT WE CAN SEE JESUS COMMANDMENT IN JOHN 13;34 AND 15;12
WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU SEE IN IT
A) LOVE ,,,, AND ,,,,,?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2014,01:05) Kerwin………Remove the Body and the Shadow no longer exists Right?. peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Gene,The shadow of man remains but it is not what a whole man is. It is handicapped. The witch of Endor summoned the shade of Samuel, which warned Saul of his coming doom. Also the shades are called spirits of the dead in some versions. The Hebrew base word is rapha.
Isaiah 14:9
New International Version (NIV)9 The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2014,01:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,04:23) Gene, The Jews are the people of God similar in the way the Christians are the children of God and to God they are the same religion. There are unbelievers among God's people in the time Jesus and before just as there has been to this very day.
Some Jews believed and they are the ones that took the message to the nations. Others did not and do not to this day and though there message is a mixture of truths and untruths they are no different than heretics among those that claim to follow Christ.
I have no doubt the soul is a shadow of the whole person as it not the whole person as you claim. The first creation of creature with souls happened on the Fifth day which would be easy to see if certain translators did not seem to have trouble with the idea that animals had souls. We are more than animals for we were also created to spiritual.e
We have a physical side which is our body, a natural side which is our soul, and a spiritual side which is from God. Your chosen teaching denies that fact. We are called to love God with our body, soul, and spirit not just with our soul.
KQuote We are called to love God with our body, soul, and spirit not just with our soul. Mt 22:37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Dt 6:5 A) Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your 1) heart and with all your 2)Soul and with all your 3)mind and with all your 4) strength.’
JN 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
JN 15:12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.A) LOVE
1) HEART
2) SOUL
3) MIND
4) STRENGTH
TELL ME ARE WE MADE WITH THIS COMPOSITION AS ONE PERSON
AND IF SO WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE “ALL”
BUT WE CAN SEE JESUS COMMANDMENT IN JOHN 13;34 AND 15;12
WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU SEE IN IT
A) LOVE ,,,, AND ,,,,,?
T,I can discuss those three parts if you desire.
Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,03:54) Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2014,01:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,04:23) Gene, The Jews are the people of God similar in the way the Christians are the children of God and to God they are the same religion. There are unbelievers among God's people in the time Jesus and before just as there has been to this very day.
Some Jews believed and they are the ones that took the message to the nations. Others did not and do not to this day and though there message is a mixture of truths and untruths they are no different than heretics among those that claim to follow Christ.
I have no doubt the soul is a shadow of the whole person as it not the whole person as you claim. The first creation of creature with souls happened on the Fifth day which would be easy to see if certain translators did not seem to have trouble with the idea that animals had souls. We are more than animals for we were also created to spiritual.e
We have a physical side which is our body, a natural side which is our soul, and a spiritual side which is from God. Your chosen teaching denies that fact. We are called to love God with our body, soul, and spirit not just with our soul.
KQuote We are called to love God with our body, soul, and spirit not just with our soul. Mt 22:37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Dt 6:5 A) Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your 1) heart and with all your 2)Soul and with all your 3)mind and with all your 4) strength.’
JN 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
JN 15:12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.A) LOVE
1) HEART
2) SOUL
3) MIND
4) STRENGTH
TELL ME ARE WE MADE WITH THIS COMPOSITION AS ONE PERSON
AND IF SO WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE “ALL”
BUT WE CAN SEE JESUS COMMANDMENT IN JOHN 13;34 AND 15;12
WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU SEE IN IT
A) LOVE ,,,, AND ,,,,,?
T,I can discuss those three parts if you desire.
Kerwinplease be my guest
T,
Deuteronomy 6:5
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)5 and thou hast loved Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might,
might is attribute of the body.
Heart = mind = inner man. all possible translation of the word translated heart here.
soul = soul.
Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,09:02) T, Deuteronomy 6:5
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)5 and thou hast loved Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might,
might is attribute of the body.
Heart = mind = inner man. all possible translation of the word translated heart here.
soul = soul.
K1)all. heart ; we understand that this represent the deepest thought and sentiments we have acquired and kept ,
2) all, soul ;sins our soul is a composition of flesh and spirit ;would this not mean that it would be in all our action ,and desires and emotions
3)all. might ;would this not rather be our will power to do ;
what you think
Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,08:45) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2014,01:05) Kerwin………Remove the Body and the Shadow no longer exists Right?. peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Gene,The shadow of man remains but it is not what a whole man is. It is handicapped. The witch of Endor summoned the shade of Samuel, which warned Saul of his coming doom. Also the shades are called spirits of the dead in some versions. The Hebrew base word is rapha.
Isaiah 14:9
New International Version (NIV)9 The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
Kerwin………..Tt should be translated Spirit or Spirits of, Not Soul, because as i have said before scripture shows the Word SOUL is relating to the Whole Person or being , rather animal, man, or God.As far as Isa 14:9 goes. that is a Proverb (a Metaphor a parable a factious illustration) as said in Isa 14:4, you can't build sound Doctrine on any Proverb or parable, they are used only to relate a simile (as an adage, poem, discourse). Not to be taken as Literial.
No one here has produced a single “SOUND” scripture that proves a Soul is any thing other then the COMPLETE BEING
BODY + Spirit = a LIVING SOUL
Kerwin I asked you to start with Genesis and read every where the word Soul is written and see what and how scripture relates the word soul, that should clear it up for you Kerwin, IMO
Kerwin, we need to come out of any “MYSTERY” religious teachings and see thing in solid and sound way. Easy to get off track brother, espically these days with so much false teachings out there.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
gene
Quote BODY + Spirit = a LIVING SOUL the “soul ” became a “living thing ” not until it received THE BREATH OF LIFE IN ITS NOSTRILS” MEAN START TO BREATH ON HIS OWN;
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2014,19:52) Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,08:45) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2014,01:05) Kerwin………Remove the Body and the Shadow no longer exists Right?. peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Gene,The shadow of man remains but it is not what a whole man is. It is handicapped. The witch of Endor summoned the shade of Samuel, which warned Saul of his coming doom. Also the shades are called spirits of the dead in some versions. The Hebrew base word is rapha.
Isaiah 14:9
New International Version (NIV)9 The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
Kerwin………..Tt should be translated Spirit or Spirits of, Not Soul, because as i have said before scripture shows the Word SOUL is relating to the Whole Person or being , rather animal, man, or God.As far as Isa 14:9 goes. that is a Proverb (a Metaphor a parable a factious illustration) as said in Isa 14:4, you can't build sound Doctrine on any Proverb or parable, they are used only to relate a simile (as an adage, poem, discourse). Not to be taken as Literial.
No one here has produced a single “SOUND” scripture that proves a Soul is any thing other then the COMPLETE BEING
BODY + Spirit = a LIVING SOUL
Kerwin I asked you to start with Genesis and read every where the word Soul is written and see what and how scripture relates the word soul, that should clear it up for you Kerwin, IMO
Kerwin, we need to come out of any “MYSTERY” religious teachings and see thing in solid and sound way. Easy to get off track brother, espically these days with so much false teachings out there.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Gene,The whole book of Ecclesiastes is a proverb and your base your doctrine on part of it. Proverbs and parable are useful for a sound doctrine. Isaiah is prophecy and therefore prone to be symbolic and one should careful on how it is interpreted. Parables can also be symbolical. Proverbs are less likely to be but they can be poetic which may make them hard to understand.
Sheol is the realm if the dead. Our dictionaries even say that and some translators translate it that way. Hades is the Greek realm of the dead and was close enough to the idea God expressed that those that quoted the OT in the NT had no trouble translating Sheol to Hades. The Nordic Hel is also a netherworld over which the goddess Hel ruled. I see no reason translators throughout time have chosen words meaning netherworld to mean grave instead.
You have a realm of the dead and the “active” dead therein. Those dead are composed of spirit though they have no body.
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