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Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,04:52) Gene, I have asked you twice because your answer did not seem to resolve the difference between your doctrine on this issue and Jesus' words.
Jesus quoted Jehovah's words that he is the God of Abraham, that he spoke even knowing Abraham had died previously. So God is the one that testified he was the God of both Abraham, who was dead, and of those that were yet living. Jesus pronounced God was not the God of the dead. How can both what God said and what Jesus said be true if Abraham was dead in all ways?
Fro
Can you state your resolution to that dilemma so that I can understand how it could be?
Kerwin,,,,,,,, when those words were spoken by God himself he was and is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all who believe and trust in him. But the dead are truly dead, but that isn't saying their spirit is dead, because it goes back to God who gave it in the first place. So if you are addressing the spirit it could be said to still be alive even if it is in asleep state, .and in that sense God is the God of those living spirits,But we are not addressing spirits , but LIVING SOULS, that you and Nick say are Separate from the “BODY” , and the SPIRIT, that is our issue, I am not speaking about the Spirit, I know a spirit can exist outside of a body. I have no problem with that, never did..
Kerwin,,,, A LIVING soul “IS” a BODY WITH SPIRIT Breathed into its nostrils by GOD, nothing more and nothing less, IMO
None of you have produced one scripture, that says, a Soul is still alive after the BODY DIES, speculations are not clear facts Kerwin, neither are true ASSUMPTIONS.
Kerwin this whole problem is resolve in Genesis, go there and take it word for word and come back and tell us what it says brother.
Peace and love to you and yours …………………………gene
Hi Gb,
God is the God of the Living
The living have been given the Spirit of eternal life.“I will never leave you or forsake you”
The mansions of Christ will not house you?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2014,07:08) Hi Gb,
God is the God of the Living
The living have been given the Spirit of eternal life.“I will never leave you or forsake you”
The mansions of Christ will not house you?
Nick……..we need to try to stick to the issue here, and that is is a man composed of, a BODY, a SPIRIT, and a SOUL, or is a man himself a “LIVING SOUL” when he is alive and when he dies, is still a “LIVING SOUL” I say NO, he is a DEAD SOUL. Being naked without a BODY and without the breath OF “LIFE” in HIM . He simply no longer sexists as a “LIVING SOUL” . Your view and others is that a LIVING SOUL Still exist even after the man dies.Moving around into different subject matters only diverts from the point I am trying to make. IMO, which is. DOES our SOULS STILL LIVE AFTER WE DIE, I know OUR SPIRITS still exist, but we are not talking about Spirits but, JUST SOULS as a SEPARATE Part of our existence. You and others say YES! I on the other hand say NO, the LIVING SOUL DOES NOT continue to Exist.
Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2014,08:52) Hi GB,
You are a soul.
Yes you are clothed in a body and enlivened by a spirit but YOU are a souls
Nick…..Yes I am, a LIVING SOUL “BECAUSE” I have a BODY with Spirit “IN” IT. The complete ME is THE LIVING SOUL,Being COLTH DEALS WITH the SPIRIT, not the SOUL, because a LIVING SOUL IS a Spirit COLTH With a BODY.
Body + Spirit = A “LIVING SOUL”.
Lean on the spirit given you , it will teach you what I have said is right brother.
Pea wand love to you and yours Nick……………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2014,09:18) Hi GB,
Paul longed to be free of his tent so HE could be clothed from above
But YOU will not exist?
Nick…….We also lone for a new tent (body) from above with spirit added back into it . And then we will be alive having stained to the resurrection of the dead. Then and only then will we be a living soul again . Everyone who thinks that a separate soul is still alive after death are only deceiving themselves. Believe what God and scripture says.We must all attain unto the resurrection of the DEAD, and DEAD truly means DEAD. When Jesus said he was dead he truly was DEAD not still alive as some of you believe, that would make Jesus a LIAR, if what he said was not true.
Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Hi GB,
God does not send a spirit back to those who are alive in the Living Spirit.
God is the God of the LivingQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2014,09:17) Hi GB,
When you tent disintegrates will you vanish or enter the mansions of Christ?
Nick…….The spirit remains, the “living soul” does not. It is DEAD until the resurrection of a new body and you spirit added back into that body or tent as you say.Peace and love to you and yours ………………………gene
Hi GB,
No return of the old spirit.
God does not need us to have two spiritsEternal life is in the Son.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2014,01:36) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,04:52) Gene, I have asked you twice because your answer did not seem to resolve the difference between your doctrine on this issue and Jesus' words.
Jesus quoted Jehovah's words that he is the God of Abraham, that he spoke even knowing Abraham had died previously. So God is the one that testified he was the God of both Abraham, who was dead, and of those that were yet living. Jesus pronounced God was not the God of the dead. How can both what God said and what Jesus said be true if Abraham was dead in all ways?
Fro
Can you state your resolution to that dilemma so that I can understand how it could be?
Kerwin,,,,,,,, when those words were spoken by God himself he was and is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all who believe and trust in him. But the dead are truly dead, but that isn't saying their spirit is dead, because it goes back to God who gave it in the first place. So if you are addressing the spirit it could be said to still be alive even if it is in asleep state, .and in that sense God is the God of those living spirits,But we are not addressing spirits , but LIVING SOULS, that you and Nick say are Separate from the “BODY” , and the SPIRIT, that is our issue, I am not speaking about the Spirit, I know a spirit can exist outside of a body. I have no problem with that, never did..
Kerwin,,,, A LIVING soul “IS” a BODY WITH SPIRIT Breathed into its nostrils by GOD, nothing more and nothing less, IMO
None of you have produced one scripture, that says, a Soul is still alive after the BODY DIES, speculations are not clear facts Kerwin, neither are true ASSUMPTIONS.
Kerwin this whole problem is resolve in Genesis, go there and take it word for word and come back and tell us what it says brother.
Peace and love to you and yours …………………………gene
Gene,Genesis 35:18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.
So do you believe that the “soul” in this case is her spirit that is departing to return to God?
Hi GB,
You say
“Nick…….The spirit remains, the “living soul” does not. It is DEAD until the resurrection of a new body and you spirit added back into that body or tent as you say.”No I did not say or mean that.
The spirit returns to God ECC 12Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,12:54) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2014,01:36) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,04:52) Gene, I have asked you twice because your answer did not seem to resolve the difference between your doctrine on this issue and Jesus' words.
Jesus quoted Jehovah's words that he is the God of Abraham, that he spoke even knowing Abraham had died previously. So God is the one that testified he was the God of both Abraham, who was dead, and of those that were yet living. Jesus pronounced God was not the God of the dead. How can both what God said and what Jesus said be true if Abraham was dead in all ways?
Fro
Can you state your resolution to that dilemma so that I can understand how it could be?
Kerwin,,,,,,,, when those words were spoken by God himself he was and is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all who believe and trust in him. But the dead are truly dead, but that isn't saying their spirit is dead, because it goes back to God who gave it in the first place. So if you are addressing the spirit it could be said to still be alive even if it is in asleep state, .and in that sense God is the God of those living spirits,But we are not addressing spirits , but LIVING SOULS, that you and Nick say are Separate from the “BODY” , and the SPIRIT, that is our issue, I am not speaking about the Spirit, I know a spirit can exist outside of a body. I have no problem with that, never did..
Kerwin,,,, A LIVING soul “IS” a BODY WITH SPIRIT Breathed into its nostrils by GOD, nothing more and nothing less, IMO
None of you have produced one scripture, that says, a Soul is still alive after the BODY DIES, speculations are not clear facts Kerwin, neither are true ASSUMPTIONS.
Kerwin this whole problem is resolve in Genesis, go there and take it word for word and come back and tell us what it says brother.
Peace and love to you and yours …………………………gene
Gene,Genesis 35:18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.
So do you believe that the “soul” in this case is her spirit that is departing to return to God?
Kerwin……….. yes her Soul was DEPARTING SHE WAS DYING. She was no longer going to be a “LIVING SOUL” her body was dying and life was leaving her and she died.No scripture say the SOUL leaves us as a live being of any kind. No scripture say God took a body and a soul and a spirit and made a man. But scripture does say a man , a complete man can DIE, and death does not mean change to another state of existence., Scripture says there is no work ,nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave where you go.
Kerwin ……….Unless we attain unto the resurrection of a body and spirit added back, we will remain DEAD forever, our ONLY HOPE is in the RESURRECTION..
All other hope of continuing to live after we are dead is futile. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2014,13:22) Hi GB,
Scripture tells us of the witch of Endor.
is this not in your bible?
Nick…….where do you see in that , it was a SOUL that was raised from it's sleep state, WE are debating what a LIVING SOUL is,and does it DIE when a person Dies. DOES that SOUL still exist , I say NO or Does not still exist when a person dies because a LIVING SOUL TDAKES a BODY to LIVE as a LIVING SOUL and if that Body dies that LIVING SOUL Is DEAD. The only thing that leaves is the SPIRIT. IMO.Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2014,06:36) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,04:52) Gene, I have asked you twice because your answer did not seem to resolve the difference between your doctrine on this issue and Jesus' words.
Jesus quoted Jehovah's words that he is the God of Abraham, that he spoke even knowing Abraham had died previously. So God is the one that testified he was the God of both Abraham, who was dead, and of those that were yet living. Jesus pronounced God was not the God of the dead. How can both what God said and what Jesus said be true if Abraham was dead in all ways?
Fro
Can you state your resolution to that dilemma so that I can understand how it could be?
Kerwin,,,,,,,, when those words were spoken by God himself he was and is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all who believe and trust in him. But the dead are truly dead, but that isn't saying their spirit is dead, because it goes back to God who gave it in the first place. So if you are addressing the spirit it could be said to still be alive even if it is in asleep state, .and in that sense God is the God of those living spirits,But we are not addressing spirits , but LIVING SOULS, that you and Nick say are Separate from the “BODY” , and the SPIRIT, that is our issue, I am not speaking about the Spirit, I know a spirit can exist outside of a body. I have no problem with that, never did..
Kerwin,,,, A LIVING soul “IS” a BODY WITH SPIRIT Breathed into its nostrils by GOD, nothing more and nothing less, IMO
None of you have produced one scripture, that says, a Soul is still alive after the BODY DIES, speculations are not clear facts Kerwin, neither are true ASSUMPTIONS.
Kerwin this whole problem is resolve in Genesis, go there and take it word for word and come back and tell us what it says brother.
Peace and love to you and yours …………………………gene
That's right Gene,
Abraham worshiped the true God, our creator. He did not worship any other God. The scripture that states God is not the God of the dead, but the living is a clue to us that the dead sleep, and are not floating around somewhere. They are reserved to be raised at the appointed time. Abraham served God whilst he was alive, and we cannot serve God in the grave, when we are dead, because time stops for that period, and we cannot do anything.Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul
Man does not become a living soul, until his heart starts pumping and there is physical life in him. The soul and the body is connected with the breath of life. This scripture is clear, and I agree with you. W
e will be judged for what was in our soul during our days alive. What type of spirit we had in us. The spirit of God, or the spirit of man which is in opposition to God's ways.. The soul is the essence of what we produce, whether good or bad, and this we take to the grave with us, and if the soul is good will be resurrected at the appointed time, if not, destroyed.
j42
Quote The soul and the body is connected with the breath of life yes and no ;
the body is one thing and the soul is another ; it is true that the soul needs a body to be functional ,and also that body needs is own start up ;this is what scriptures are saying ; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;see we all have to do that without it we are dead in the flesh ,
see what scriptures says next ;and man became a living soul ; so does it says that the flesh was the soul
NO, does it says that because of the breath of life given into his nostrils the soul start to live NO,what it says is that ;and man became a living soul BECAME ;WHAT MEANS THAT HE WAS NOT ONE BEFORE RIGHT ? YES ; BUT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT THE SOUL WAS NOT THERE INSIDE THE MAN ADAM ,RIGHT ? YES ;
SO WHAT SCRIPTURES REALLY SAYS IT THAT ADAM BECAME AN ACTIVE SOUL AFTER GOD BLOW IN ADAM NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE ;RIGHT??? YES
BUT WE KNOW BY THE WORDS OF CHRIST THAT THE FLESH AND SOUL ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS NOT ONE THING ;MT 10:28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
HOPE THIS CLEARS UP A FEW THINGS
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