The soul

Participant

Georg,

I can see where it is confusing as spirit can mean the spirit, which can be changed, or soul, which cannot.

God instructs us to get a new spirit. He does not instruct us to get a new soul.

A soul is like the wind in form just like a spirit is.

Ezekiel 36:26(NIV)

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

It is the soul that we will commend to God's care as a result of our trust in him.

The spirit is the way we choose to live. I call it our guide. It departs with the soul and most likely remains with it.

February 26, 2011 at 8:28 am#237467

Participant

Mike Boll,

Both Hades and Gehenna are called pits but Gehenna is the pit of destruction where the wicked go but the righteous do not. Both go to Sheol, aka Hades.

February 26, 2011 at 1:43 pm#237480

Participant

Kerwin…………Do animals have Souls, scripture say they are souls also. so when they die do they still exist as a ghost or something like a apparition of some kind as you believe we do? Kerwin why complicate something so simple there are only two thing involved in a Human life His Body and the Spirit (IN) it. that is it nothing else. The whole concept of Ghost and such derives its sources from ancient pagan practices and is clouded in MYSTERY RELIGION. This thing is easily understood brother a SOUL = a BODY + SPIRIT , that is it brother nothing else is need for our existence. If GOD does not reconstructs us another Body and adds Spirit back into it , we simple will never exist again forever. A resurrection of our BODY is absolutely crucial for us to continue to exist now and well as in the future. IMO

peace and love……………………………….gene

February 26, 2011 at 3:27 pm#237486

Blocked

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 25 2011,08:08)

Now that is not even funny. Now I wonder if this is the case in most Scriptures. I tell you what from now on I will check all scriptures.
I sure opened a can of worms….

Hi Irene,

This is almost always the case with translations. That's why I use NETNotes. It shows 9 translations of the scripture (from the NIV, old KJV, new KJV, NASB, NRSV, and others). Then below, it also shows the actual Greek or Hebrew words used, AND the definitions of those words, AND how many times that word was used, AND the scriptures in which that word was used, AND much more.

And if it is a Hebrew scripture, it also show the LXX translation. It is a good site just to compare the various ways translators have rendered the same exact scripture.

Click HERE to see Proverbs 11:25. Notice at the bottom of the page, you can hold your pointer over the blue Strong Numbers to get the definitions of each Greek or Hebrew word. If you want, you can hold it over each word in the scripture one at a time from start to finish and piece together the scripture for yourself from the actual Greek or Hebrew words. (Remember that Hebrew was written right to left, so start with the LAST word in the Hebrew text, and work towards the FIRST word, one at a time.)

Check it out………….it's pretty cool, and definitely informational.

peace and love,
mike

February 26, 2011 at 4:19 pm#237488

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 26 2011,01:28)

Mike Boll,

Both Hades and Gehenna are called pits but Gehenna is the pit of destruction where the wicked go but the righteous do not. Both go to Sheol, aka Hades.

Did you enjoy the information, Kerwin?

mike

February 26, 2011 at 4:22 pm#237489

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 24 2011,22:21)

Mike……….The JW's have it wrong too. The word Hell is simply GRAVE not some everlasting fire , there is no such thing as an everlasting Fire, in a literial sense even our sun will eventually burn out. You confusing Literal language with Symbolic language and manipulating them to fit you personal dogmas. God does not plan to throw anyone into a LITERAL LAKE of ETERNAL FIRE> Pure pagan teachings. IMO

peace and love………………………………………gene

Gene,

REALLY you must stop this! I haven't even claimed anything about Gehenna. Kerwin asked, and I posted what the Watchtower said about it. How does that become “MY personal dogma”?

Only comment on the things we say. Not the things you IMAGINE that we think, okay? This is like the 6th time I've posted this to you.

mike

February 27, 2011 at 12:02 am#237532

terraricca

Participant

all

Mt 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Mt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Mt 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
Mt 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil

Mt 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

Mk 4:3 “Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed.
Mk 4:4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.
Mk 4:5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.
Mk 4:6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
Mk 4:7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain.
Mk 4:8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times.”
Mk 4:9 Then Jesus said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Mk 10:14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Mk 10:15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Mk 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Mk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
Mk 12:31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
Mk 12:32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
Mk 12:33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
Mk 12:34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom

Lk 8:10 He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that,
“ ‘though seeing, they may not see;
though hearing, they may not understand.’

Lk 13:18 Then Jesus asked, “What is the kingdom of God like? What shall I compare it to?
Lk 13:19 It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air perched in its branches.”
Lk 13:20 Again he asked, “What shall I compare the kingdom of God to?
Lk 13:21 It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough.”

Lk 18:17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Jn 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’”
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Jn 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

we all recieve our live by God who as invested by giving a soul to everyone of us ,what we do with that gift is what separate us all,

some will use it for there own pleasure some to worship the true God,this would be the wise way because live is ahead of them ,

there is no mystery in Gods word there is only confussion in the ones who look at the scriptures for there own benefit ,the word of God as not been written for personal gain but for the learning the love of God and share it with others,

in this way the kingdom will come to live in our hearths.

Pierre

February 27, 2011 at 4:24 am#237544

Participant

Terricca…………So what does all that have to do abut the subject of what a Soul (IS)? A soul (IS) a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) IT> a Complete Being> Nothing more and nothing Less. Simple (NO MYSTERY INVOLVED) IMO

peace and love………………………………………..gene

February 27, 2011 at 5:31 am#237546

Baker

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2011,10:02)

all

Mt 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

Lk 18:17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

we all recieve our live by God who as invested by giving a soul to everyone of us ,what we do with that gift is what separate us all,

some will use it for there own pleasure some to worship the true God,this would be the wise way because live is ahead of them ,

in this way the kingdom will come to live in our hearths.

Pierre

Pierre! When you write Scriptures like you just did, I ask myself why does He do that? Your last comment is uncalled for. You act like you know it all. You seem always to think you are right, and others are wrong. We all fall short of the glory of God, and judging others even with scriptures is wrong. What personal gain would anyone here have. We all debating scriptures. No money involved, only pride. There will always be confusion until Christ comes to set things straight….
Peace Irene

February 27, 2011 at 5:39 am#237547

Baker

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2011,01:27)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 25 2011,08:08)

Now that is not even funny. Now I wonder if this is the case in most Scriptures. I tell you what from now on I will check all scriptures.
I sure opened a can of worms….

Hi Irene,

And if it is a Hebrew scripture, it also show the LXX translation. It is a good site just to compare the various ways translators have rendered the same exact scripture.

Check it out………….it's pretty cool, and definitely informational.

peace and love,
mike

Mike! Thanks Mike will try that….Irene

February 27, 2011 at 8:25 am#237548

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2011,21:19)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 26 2011,01:28)

Mike Boll,

Both Hades and Gehenna are called pits but Gehenna is the pit of destruction where the wicked go but the righteous do not. Both go to Sheol, aka Hades.

Did you enjoy the information, Kerwin?

mike

I was looking to see what old testament scriptural support there is for the tenet of Gehenna , otherwise known as the lake of fire. It did not solve that mystery.

The history of the term was interesting.

February 27, 2011 at 8:35 am#237549

Participant

Gene,

There is a human body and a human soul. The spirit is the essential principle influencing a person and so can be changed. The soul is the essential person and so cannot be changed.

God created Adam with flesh and soul with an essential principle influencing him.

That is all self evident.

Jesus stated those who lied in their grave were still alive. To live one must first exist.

February 27, 2011 at 4:31 pm#237581

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 27 2011,22:31)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2011,10:02)

all

Mt 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

Lk 18:17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

we all recieve our live by God who as invested by giving a soul to everyone of us ,what we do with that gift is what separate us all,

some will use it for there own pleasure some to worship the true God,this would be the wise way because live is ahead of them ,

in this way the kingdom will come to live in our hearths.

Pierre

Irene

think harder you will find something else,

Pierre

February 27, 2011 at 4:35 pm#237582

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 27 2011,01:25)

I was looking to see what old testament scriptural support there is for the tenet of Gehenna , otherwise known as the lake of fire. It did not solve that mystery.

Hi Kerwin,

Didn't you read the scriptures that were listed? Joshua 15 and 18 explain the geographical location of the Valley of Ben Hinnom. The other scriptures explain the link to Jesus' teachings:

2 Chronicles 28
3 [Ahaz] burned sacrifices in the Valley of Ben Hinnom and sacrificed his children in the fire, engaging in the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.

2 Chronicles 33
6 [Manasseh] sacrificed his children in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced divination and witchcraft, sought omens, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, arousing his anger.

Jeremiah 7
31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. 32 So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. 33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

Jeremiah 19
1 This is what the LORD says: “Go and buy a clay jar from a potter. Take along some of the elders of the people and of the priests 2 and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate. There proclaim the words I tell you, 3 and say, ‘Hear the word of the LORD, you kings of Judah and people of Jerusalem. This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Listen! I am going to bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. 4 For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned incense in it to gods that neither they nor their ancestors nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. 5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind. 6 So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call this place Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.

Jesus Christ associated fire with Gehenna (Mt 5:22; 18:9; Mr 9:47, 48), as did the disciple James, the only Biblical writer besides Matthew, Mark, and Luke to use the word. (Jas 3:6) Some commentators endeavor to link such fiery characteristic of Gehenna with the burning of human sacrifices that was carried on prior to Josiah’s reign and, on this basis, hold that Gehenna was used by Jesus as a symbol of everlasting torment.

There is the “link” you are looking for.

Therefore, the Biblical evidence concerning Gehenna generally parallels the traditional view presented by rabbinic and other sources. That view is that the Valley of Hinnom was used as a place for the disposal of waste matter from the city of Jerusalem.

“And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”

Is this what you're after, or are looking for a specific link to the “lake of fire”? Wouldn't the fact that wicked souls are siad to be thrown into Gehenna, and also said to be throw into the lake of fire give you your “link”?

mike

February 27, 2011 at 4:38 pm#237583

Participant

Kerwin……..That is the problem you assuming that Scripture say God created a Man (WITH) a Soul, but scripture does not say that it say He created Man from the dust of the ground and Breathed (SPIRIT) into Him and (THEN) man became a (LIVING) Soul. That means man was not a (LIVING) Soul until LIFE Came (INTO) HIM. Now if he was not LIVING until He recieved Life into Him them He was just a dead body and not even a Soul until He gained Spirit into that Body and the combination of Spirit and Body made him a LIVING Soul or living Being.

Confusion come in where Jesus said God could destory (BOTH) Body and Soul in the grave, but if you think about it He was exactly right, Why? because if you destory the body you have in effect destroyed the SOUL also. If God does not reconstruct a Body and add Spirit back into it as he did at the first of creation man will never exist again as a LIVING SOUL.

Mystery Religion want to make it more complex then that by trying to make it into a three part existence, body, soul, spirit. That is because of this concept o Ghost and apparitions and etc created by pagan teachings over many years. Kerwin there is not mystery to it we simply exist as a Body with Spirit IN US. The question is which and what kind of Spirit is in us. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Brother…………………………………gene

February 27, 2011 at 4:48 pm#237584

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2011,09:38)

Hi Gene,

That makes no sense. If God can destroy the body, AND THEN AFTERWARDS destroy the soul, then they are separate things. If man can only kill the body, but do nothing to the soul, then they are separate things.

Perhaps the “soul” in Genesis isn't including the body. Perhaps it is to be understood that God breathed life into Adam, and he became a living soul…………WITHIN THE BODY GOD HAD ALREADY FORMED OUT OF THE DUST.

Listen Gene, we are all discussing this and trying to get a grasp on it. It serves no purpose except to irritate us when you add to your posts words like “mystery religion” and “personal dogmas”.

No one here is propagating any “mystery religion”. We are all just people comparing scripture to scripture and trying to sort something out.

mike

February 28, 2011 at 8:54 am#237637

Participant

Gene,

Please read both Genesis 2:7 and 1 Kings 17:17-23 and compare them. You will find that just as the breath of life gives the flesh life the soul does to. A soul together with the flesh makes one a living creature. The soul that departs from the flesh is still alive but the flesh dies. Because the flesh dies the soul is said to be dead even though it yet lives. The soul is but a shadow of its former self.

February 28, 2011 at 4:32 pm#237652