The soul

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 23 2011,07:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2011,10:03)

georg

Those souls did not literally ask anything, they were dead, period; what you read they said is for “our” understanding, and information.

Constantine did not stop Christian persecution ,only to the ones (secte) that line themself with him.
can the truth of God join him ??

Pierre

Your ignorance scares me.

Georg

georg

February 22, 2011 at 9:37 pm#236869

Participant

Mike

those are the early words of God;
Dt 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Dt 6:5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Dt 10:12 And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

it says SEEK the Lord;how can anyone do that unless his soul is spirit ?
it says you will FIND him;how can anyone find God who is spirit but by there own spirit ;soul;?
it says with all your hearth;is this your physical hearth ?NO it is the hearth of our soul meaning the deepest feelings ,
it says with all our strength;the scriptures says the flesh is weak but the spirit is willing so it is the soul that is the motor and the body the tool.

it says walk in his ways and to love him;the power to walk in the way of God is the will of the soul not the body.
to love God is also the will of the soul,not the body,

the body of flesh is a tool that would have made Adam worth to eat from the tree of live ,just as we today trough Christ are offered,

it is the soul that will go into judgement not the body .

Pierre

February 23, 2011 at 3:28 am#237072

Participant

To All……….Again all this confusion over something so Simple . Nephesh derives it meaning form three Hebrew Letters, the first is a round dot with an squiggly line (Nun) the second letter is a squint eye shaped letter (Pey) the third letter is a W shaped letter (Shin), All of these original Hebrew letters spell out Nephesh and means a living Soul or (COMPLETE BEING), and that includes the (WHOLE) of a person god,or a creature its BODY, and MIND or Spirit (THE COMPLETE BEING.)

Jesus was accurate when he said God could destory (BOTH) “Body and Soul” the complete being “IN THE GRAVE” Because a man can not exist with out a BODY with Spirit (IN) It. If the Spirit goes back to GOD who gave it in the first place and the body goes to the grave and corrupts, that is It, that BEDING no longer exists or ever will again, he or she is completely destroyed in that state, they have perished and are dead, and unless God recreates the exact same DNA body and adds Spirit back into it that person will never again exist. This is not hard to understand but it goes to show us how far “mystery religious” teaching have infected people through false teaching of the Apostate Churches. People try to connect some kind of mystery to every thing religious. There is not such thing as a Soul continual living after your Body dies. Therefore it saysMan will again be able to take from the life giving TREE (that which produces from self) of Life and never die again. We will be given the right to EAT(take to OUR bodies) FROM THE TREE OF LIFE AND NEVER DIES AGAIN.

What may be hard for some to understand is that the (EXACT) same Body is reconstructed or resurected, So it is spoken as the same body even though it is not the one that died before, it still is the (exact) same DNA. So from that perspective it can be spoken of as (IT) (THAT SAME) Body being raised as meaning the same body. Our Bodies even now are replacing themselves and they say every cell in our bodies is replaced every seven years so in a sense we are being continuely reconstructed even now. At a certain Period of time this clock seems to stop and we then start to die. This clock can be adjusted by GOD at his will. It is possible for a man to continual to live for ever in the Flesh. And remember Jesus was raised in the flesh. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………………………………gene

peace and love………………………………………..gene

February 23, 2011 at 3:37 am#237074

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2011,21:29)

so the image of US and OUR to me would be “to be the ruler of the earth just like Christ is over all Gods creation and God is the ruler of all creation .

Thanks for sharing your understanding of it. I remain undecided about what “in our image” means.

peace and love,
mike

February 23, 2011 at 3:39 am#237075

Blocked

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 21 2011,21:53)

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I believe here it is Spirit

Hi Irene,

If the spirit goes back to Him who gave it, then it is not “destroyed”, right?

But the soul of the sinner is destroyed. So “soul” must be different from spirit, IMO.

mike

February 23, 2011 at 3:56 am#237078

Blocked

Hi Georg,

Name one single scripture you quoted that proves my understanding to be flawed.

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 22 2011,07:28)

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The “DEAD” Mike, the dead shall rise first.

Why would those souls already living in heaven have a need to “rise”? Jesus said that not all STANDING HERE will taste death. Your scenario means that there are some 2000+ year old human beings still living.

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 22 2011,07:28)

“We which are alive and REMAIN”; remain until when?

Verse 15 tells us the “when”. It says, “we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,”.

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 22 2011,07:28)

Paul talks about the resurrection of the DEAD, not about the change of the living.

Yes, in 1 Cor 15 Paul DOES talk about the resurrection of the dead…………..because he is answering a question from verse 35. What does that have to do with the fact that not all will taste death? What does that have to do with the fact that not all will sleep? And how does that explain the souls under the alter in Rev?

mike

February 23, 2011 at 4:07 am#237080

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2011,14:37)

Mike

it says walk in his ways and to love him;the power to walk in the way of God is the will of the soul not the body.
to love God is also the will of the soul,not the body,

the body of flesh is a tool that would have made Adam worth to eat from the tree of live ,just as we today trough Christ are offered,

it is the soul that will go into judgement not the body .

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Okay. I hear you and acknowledge your understanding of it. I don't believe that our soul is the spirit that we know goes back to Him who gave it.

I believe that our souls await judgement, sitting in Hades or Sheol, conscious of nothing until we are revived. I believe that some souls are taken to heaven the second the body dies. Those are the TRUE saints who have died DIRECTLY for their belief in Christ and the Gospel. ( And possibly some like Elijah, Moses and the Patriarchs.)

I believe this is what the scriptures teach. And I believe our spirit has already gone back to God by the time our souls are placed in Hades to await judgement………….so the soul cannot be the spirit.

This is how I understand it for now.

mike

February 23, 2011 at 5:32 am#237082

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2011,21:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2011,14:37)

Mike

it says walk in his ways and to love him;the power to walk in the way of God is the will of the soul not the body.
to love God is also the will of the soul,not the body,

the body of flesh is a tool that would have made Adam worth to eat from the tree of live ,just as we today trough Christ are offered,

it is the soul that will go into judgement not the body .

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Okay. I hear you and acknowledge your understanding of it. I don't believe that our soul is the spirit that we know goes back to Him who gave it.

This is how I understand it for now.

mike

Mike

the reason why i believe our soul is the spirit that God gives out to all is creature angel ,man ,and beast but all according to his will ,

Man as been created to the LIKENESS of ;US and OUR so they are both spirits God and Christ(the WORD)

the fact that it goes back to God ,it is because the will of God as not been completed yet but in time there will be the judgement and all opposition to God will be destroyed and all the souls of the righteous will be restored on earth and in heaven.new earth and new heaven.

the same apply to Satan who receive from God a time to prove his point and then is end comes,

it is the same with us one live and then the judgement .

Pierre

February 23, 2011 at 5:34 am#237083

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2011,21:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2011,14:37)

Mike

it says walk in his ways and to love him;the power to walk in the way of God is the will of the soul not the body.
to love God is also the will of the soul,not the body,

the body of flesh is a tool that would have made Adam worth to eat from the tree of live ,just as we today trough Christ are offered,

it is the soul that will go into judgement not the body .

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Okay. I hear you and acknowledge your understanding of it. I don't believe that our soul is the spirit that we know goes back to Him who gave it.

This is how I understand it for now.

mike

Mike

February 23, 2011 at 5:49 am#237085

Participant

Mike

this is related to what to do with our soul;
Mt 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Mt 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Mt 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Mt 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light.
Mt 6:23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Mt 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard.
Mt 20:2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
Mt 20:3 “About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing.
Mt 20:4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’
Mt 20:5 So they went.
“He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing.
Mt 20:6 About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
Mt 20:7 “ ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
Mt 20:8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
Mt 20:9 “The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius.
Mt 20:10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius.
Mt 20:11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner.
Mt 20:12 ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
Mt 20:13 “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius?
Mt 20:14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you.
Mt 20:15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
Mt 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

this is what Christ died for to give as eternal live no more no less to become obedient to God.

also Satan is a spirit that rebel against God ,and men is no different in is nature

Pierre

February 23, 2011 at 9:24 am#237100

kerwin

Participant

To all,

Luke 23:46(NIV)

Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Pneuma from the Greek Lexicon at searchgodsword.org

1.the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
a.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \Holy\ Spirit)
b.sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \Truth\)
c.never referred to as a depersonalised force
2.the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
a.the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
b.the soul
3.a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a.a life giving spirit
b.a human soul that has left the body
c.a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1.used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2.the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4.the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
a.the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5.a movement of air (a gentle blast)
a.of the wind, hence the wind itself
b.breath of nostrils or mouth

As you can see from the definitions of the common Greek word “pneuma”, Jesus may well have been commending his soul to God when it departed. That does not mean it did not go to Hades, aka Sheol, but rather that Jesus put his trust in God to do what is right with his soul.

According to scripture you can get a new spirit while I know of nowhere God states you can get a new soul. Why commend you spirit into God’s hands if it is not intrinsic to who you are?

All the following Scriptures are from the KJV of scripture.

Genesis 35:18

And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

We are instructed here that her soul departed, as opposed to died, when she died.

Psalm 26:9

Do not take away my soul along with sinners, my life with those who are bloodthirsty,

We are instructed here that a soul can be taken away with sinners.

1 Kings 17

17And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
18And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?
19And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
20And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
21And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
22And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
23And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.

The prophet Elijah petitions God to allow the soul of a child to return to its flesh. God heard and allowed the boy’s soul to reenter his body. Please not this is just like when God breathed life into Adam and Adam became a living soul. When the boy’s soul returned to his body he once more became a living soul.

These are other scriptures I feel are related.

Job 12:10

In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

Job 27:8

For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?

Job 33:18

He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

Job 33:22

Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

Job 33:30

To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.

Job 33:28

He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

Psalm 7:5

Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 16:10

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 30:3

O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

February 23, 2011 at 12:04 pm#237117

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 24 2011,02:24)

To all,

Luke 23:46(NIV)

Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Pneuma from the Greek Lexicon at searchgodsword.org

According to scripture you can get a new spirit while I know of nowhere God states you can get a new soul. Why commend you spirit into God’s hands if it is not intrinsic to who you are?

All the following Scriptures are from the KJV of scripture.

Genesis 35:18

And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

We are instructed here that her soul departed, as opposed to died, when she died.

Psalm 26:9

Do not take away my soul along with sinners, my life with those who are bloodthirsty,

We are instructed here that a soul can be taken away with sinners.

1 Kings 17

These are other scriptures I feel are related.

Job 12:10

In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

Job 27:8

For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?

Job 33:18

He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

Job 33:22

Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

Job 33:30

To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.

Job 33:28

He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

Psalm 7:5

Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 16:10

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 30:3

O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Kerwin

so what are your conclusion is the soul the given spirit or is it the body??

Pierre

February 23, 2011 at 1:02 pm#237121

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2011,13:39)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 21 2011,21:53)

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I believe here it is Spirit

Hi Irene,

If the spirit goes back to Him who gave it, then it is not “destroyed”, right?

But the soul of the sinner is destroyed. So “soul” must be different from spirit, IMO.

mike

Mike…………No the Spirit (intellect) is not destroyed YOU ARE. Your still thinking Spirit is a BEING when in Fact it is NOT a BEING (IT) Intellect is what is (IN) Beings. Spirit intellect of the same kind can be in billions of people at the same time all can know they need to eat (that is Spirit giving them that intellect). Spirit is a Shared intellect rather it is clean or unclean anyone can have it (IN) them, again for the hundredth time a Spirit is not a Being it is what is (IN) Beings. God said He would pour forth of his SPIRIT upon (ALL) flesh . GET IT?> Spirit is the MIND the Thinking going on (IN) the MIND , A persons Spirits is not unique to them that same spirits can be in anyone . Scripture says if the Spirit of Him who raised Christ Jesus from the dead be (IN) You (IT) shall also quicken you mortal (dead) (BODIES). Just as it did HIS that mind or Spirit is not unique to Jesus (IT) can be in you or anyone else, that SAME SPIRIT. GET IT>

peace and love………………………gene

February 23, 2011 at 1:30 pm#237123

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2011,15:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2011,21:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2011,14:37)

Mike

it says walk in his ways and to love him;the power to walk in the way of God is the will of the soul not the body.
to love God is also the will of the soul,not the body,

the body of flesh is a tool that would have made Adam worth to eat from the tree of live ,just as we today trough Christ are offered,

it is the soul that will go into judgement not the body .

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Okay. I hear you and acknowledge your understanding of it. I don't believe that our soul is the spirit that we know goes back to Him who gave it.

This is how I understand it for now.

mike

Mike

Terricca……….Simple look up the word used there for Soul and you will find it is SPIRIT (Ruach) breathe , not Naphesh (Soul) or a Being)> Look it up and that might solve your confusions. Many times Scripture mix up those two words because Spirit is the intellect of the Soul (PERSON)> But as Jesus said Both the BODY and The SOUL (which includes his body) can be destroyed by GOD (IN) the Grave. NOT the SPIRIT because it goes back to its source from where it came Your spirit is (NOT) unique to you, Your BODY is unique to YOU.

Spirit (intellect) is Spirit (intellect) and the same spirit (intellect) you have can be in anyone or in All. Why do you think Jesus sai I (IN) You and YOU (IN) Me, it is by the (SAME SPIRIT INTELLECT)”THAT GOD MAY BE IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL”> The only difference is the Bodies he is (IN) God lives vicariously (IN) all His creation. That is why he knows even when a Sparrow fall to the ground, because the animal released it spirit (intellect) in it , the same as when men die their spirit (intellect)(IN) them is released back to GOD. GOD is the very Life of all physical creation that has life (IN) it.

When a person dies he no longer EXISTS no more then when a animal dies It no longer exists either, “So dies on So dies the other”. There is NO difference between us and the other animals in GOD'S creation , except we have More Spirit (intellect) in us then they do. WE can come to posses all seven Spirit of GOD (IN) us just as Jesus Now has in Him. IMO

peace and love……………………………..gene

February 23, 2011 at 1:43 pm#237124

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2011,13:37)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2011,21:29)

so the image of US and OUR to me would be “to be the ruler of the earth just like Christ is over all Gods creation and God is the ruler of all creation .

Thanks for sharing your understanding of it. I remain undecided about what “in our image” means.

peace and love,
mike

Mike………Stand in front of a mirror and you will have your answer it is an (EXACT) Reflection of YOU> That is what (IMAGE) means it is never the REAL PERSON, Just a Reflection of Him. The material in the mirror reflects you, So does the Spirit (intellect) of GOD cause us to reflect GOD in our lives. Simple, nothing complicated about it. Be you Holy because I am Holy, be you Perfect because I am Perfect”. Says GOD. This is accomplished by the SAME Spirit (intellect) GOD Has placed (IN) us and then we are (imaging) or Reflecting GOD in our lives. IMO

peace and love………………………………………gene

February 23, 2011 at 1:49 pm#237125