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Quote (t8 @ Sep. 18 2011,19:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2011,10:30) Wait a minute. I thought t8 and Pierre agreed that spirit, soul, and body were THREE different things. Now it seems as if they think they are only TWO different things, with the spirit BEING the soul. I stand convinced that they are indeed THREE separate and distinct things.
Still three things.
Flesh, soul/spirit of man, spirit of God.If not, then it must be 4 things.
Flesh, soul, spirit of man, spirit of God.Which one do you think it is, or do you have another take?
I think the latter, t8. This is what I posted before:IMO, the soul is like a computer hard drive. It is our intellect and our memories and completely who we are.
Our spirit is like a USB/Power cable plugged into us. It not only give us the electricity needed to power our “hard drive”, but can also feed us information via “God's internet”.
Our body is simply the outer case of the computer.
We die when our electricity source is cut off from God. And our outer case eventually decays until it is gone. But the hard drive remains in tact, full of the memories of our life. It is stored in a place the Hebrews called Sheol. It sits there, unconscious of anything at all…………..UNTIL its power source is again supplied by God. Once it again has power to it, all those memories are again accessible. And all we are missing at that point is the outer case. During the resurrection, God will give spiritual cases to those hard drives that are going to live in heaven, and fleshly cases to those hard drives that are going to be on earth forever.
And here is what you've recently said:
Thanks for sharing that Mike.
Seems not only logical but also aligns with this scripture:Many acknowledge a spirit and body, but not a soul that is different to the spirit.
The body goes to dust, the spirit goes back to God leaving the soul. But once the spirit enters the soul again, it becomes a living soul.
The difference between the soul and spirit is like the bone and marrow.
But does that not support the idea that body soul and spirit are 3 things?
That's why I'm confused that you now seem to be linking the spirit with the soul, as if they are one thing.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart.You cannot divide the soul FROM the spirit unless they are two different things.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
One cannot kill the body while the soul remains alive unless they are two different things.
So just from two scriptures, we can learn that the spirit is something different than the soul, which is in turn something different than the body.
Can anybody dispute the scriptural teaching in these two verses?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2011,19:27) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 18 2011,19:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2011,10:30) Wait a minute. I thought t8 and Pierre agreed that spirit, soul, and body were THREE different things. Now it seems as if they think they are only TWO different things, with the spirit BEING the soul. I stand convinced that they are indeed THREE separate and distinct things.
Still three things.
Flesh, soul/spirit of man, spirit of God.If not, then it must be 4 things.
Flesh, soul, spirit of man, spirit of God.Which one do you think it is, or do you have another take?
I think the latter, t8. This is what I posted before:IMO, the soul is like a computer hard drive. It is our intellect and our memories and completely who we are.
Our spirit is like a USB/Power cable plugged into us. It not only give us the electricity needed to power our “hard drive”, but can also feed us information via “God's internet”.
Our body is simply the outer case of the computer.
We die when our electricity source is cut off from God. And our outer case eventually decays until it is gone. But the hard drive remains in tact, full of the memories of our life. It is stored in a place the Hebrews called Sheol. It sits there, unconscious of anything at all…………..UNTIL its power source is again supplied by God. Once it again has power to it, all those memories are again accessible. And all we are missing at that point is the outer case. During the resurrection, God will give spiritual cases to those hard drives that are going to live in heaven, and fleshly cases to those hard drives that are going to be on earth forever.
And here is what you've recently said:
Thanks for sharing that Mike.
Seems not only logical but also aligns with this scripture:Many acknowledge a spirit and body, but not a soul that is different to the spirit.
The body goes to dust, the spirit goes back to God leaving the soul. But once the spirit enters the soul again, it becomes a living soul.
The difference between the soul and spirit is like the bone and marrow.
But does that not support the idea that body soul and spirit are 3 things?
That's why I'm confused that you now seem to be linking the spirit with the soul, as if they are one thing.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart.You cannot divide the soul FROM the spirit unless they are two different things.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
One cannot kill the body while the soul remains alive unless they are two different things.
So just from two scriptures, we can learn that the spirit is something different than the soul, which is in turn something different than the body.
Can anybody dispute the scriptural teaching in these two verses?
peace,
mike
MikeI do not thing there is 4 ,the spirit of God is not US we are created,
we may have access to the truth ,and understand God s will and words ,and so become one with him ,but in no way is the holy spirit of God part of US but if we change the spirit that is in US for the will of God then we still have only 3 but with God not against Gods will.the word of God ;; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2011,12:27) Our spirit is like a USB/Power cable plugged into us.
This is the pneuma that makes our soul live.
This is why I agree with your assessment.
The breath of God is what makes us live.Pneuma is breath which has these uses in the KJV:
Spirit, Holy Ghost, Spirit (of God), Spirit (of the Lord), (My) Spirit, Spirit (of truth), Spirit (of Christ).Psuche is soul which has these uses in the KJV:
soul, life, mind, heart, heartily.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2011,12:27) That's why I'm confused that you now seem to be linking the spirit with the soul, as if they are one thing.
Spirit and soul are 2 different words, but I was looking at the possibility that it might be possible that the spirit of man is the soul and the spirit of God is obviously the spirit/breath of God. I said this because many say that soul and spirit are interchangeable.For example:
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.So the above is the breath/spirit, yet it seems more than electricity and more like the things of the mind or understanding.
My traditional view is that man is body, soul, and spirit, and we are connected to God by our spirit to his Spirit.
I guess what I am saying is that many say the spirit and soul are interchangeable. So I guess the best thing to do from here is to ask these people where are the soul and spirit interchangeable? Because if we can rule that out, then that leaves man as body, soul, spirit and a believer as body, soul, spirit, and Spirit of God.
T8,
Quote Spirit and soul are 2 different words, I am going to make the same statement in two different ways by using two different words to mean the same thing.
I own a husky.
I own a dog.
Now consider that spirit and soul are used in the same way.
I have a soul.
I have a spirit.
Both can be speaking of the same thing even though the word spirit is a more generic word.
Now here is another example.
My sister has a dog.
I believe you realize that statement does not mean she has a husky even though earlier the word do did mean husky.
spirit is a generic word while soul is more specific.
I hope that helps.
Pierre,
Quote Matthew 5
King James Version (KJV)6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Using the above scripture tell me what part of a human being hungers and thirsts after righteousness?
Quote Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Using the above scriptures tell me if the fruit of the Spirit fills that part that is starving for righteousness or not?
So what part of a human hungers and what part of a human fills that hunger? Are they the same part or are they different?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 19 2011,18:16) T8, Quote Spirit and soul are 2 different words, I am going to make the same statement in two different ways by using two different words to mean the same thing.
I own a husky.
I own a dog.
Now consider that spirit and soul are used in the same way.
I have a soul.
I have a spirit.
Both can be speaking of the same thing even though the word spirit is a more generic word.
Now here is another example.
My sister has a dog.
I believe you realize that statement does not mean she has a husky even though earlier the word do did mean husky.
spirit is a generic word while soul is more specific.
I hope that helps.
OK, I hear ya, but to throw a spanner in the works.1 Corinthians 2:14
the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.Mark 8:36
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?The word for natural in the first scripture is psuchikos.
The word for soul in the second scripture is psuche.They are the same word except the first is the adjective and the second is the noun.
So the natural man who cannot fathom the things of the spirit is actually a SOULISH man.
So I am not sure that soul and spirit are the same (as you say) with one being more generic than the other.
What is the difference between spirit and soul?
Answer
The following two verses are the ones that raise the questions concerning the difference between “spirit and soul”:
“May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” [1 Thessalonians 5:23]
“The word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” [Hebrews 4:12]
In these two verses the word translated “spirit” is the Greek word “pneuma” which means “a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or breeze” which by analogy refers to a human “spirit” the rational “soul.” The word translated “soul” in the verse is the Greek word “psuche” which means “breath” and by implication “spirit.” So the use of the two words does not indicate that the immaterial part of man could be divided, but rather are used simply for emphasis. There are not three parts to humans (body, soul, and spirit) but only two (body and “soul or spirit”). Throughout Scripture we see the two terms “spirit” and “soul” used interchangeably:
“We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain…” [Hebrews 6:19]
“Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.” [1 Peter 2:11]
“….that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard.” – [2 Peter 2:8]
In these three verses we find the word translated “soul” is the Greek word “psuche” = breath (by implication spirit). So God is referring to that part of us which is our spirit, the eternal part He put into us when we were conceived (made alive)
“….the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.” [Genesis 2:7]
It is not “air” that made us alive but the “spirit or our soul” that caused us then to start breathing the air. So we have only two parts: the body, and the spirit (or soul). The words are interchangeable. In the verses above the translators could have just as easily chosen to use the word “spirit” just as well.
Now, we even see the same word “psuche” which is translated “spirit” or “soul” also translated “mind” in the next verse:
“All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.” [Acts 4:32]
The concept is that our “mind” is really our “spirit/soul” ….not the brain matter, but what is operating on and through the brain: our soul. Some honestly feel that our “soul” or “spirit” actually resides in our heads, because the brain is located there.
Now, to show how important it is to know which Greek word is being use to gain a proper understanding, look at the next verse:
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind….” [Luke 10:27]
The word for “heart” here is “kardia” = “the thoughts or feelings (mind)” It does not refer to the flesh of the heart that pumps blood, but really our “mind” in the sense of our “soul” or “spirit.” The word translated “soul” in the verse is “psuche” (breath). But the word translated “mind” here is not referring to our “soul or spirit” for the Greek word used is “dianoia” which refers to our “deep thoughts” that is, the exercise of our minds. So the verse used “heart and soul” for emphasis, since they really refer to the same thing: the “spirit,” and then adds that we are to love our God with our actual thoughts.
So in summary, the “soul” and the “spirit” are one and the same, just two words meaning the same thing: the eternal immaterial part of each person. I might note that when a person becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit comes and resides inside our “soul/spirit.”
This is also how Georg see's it…. I will also go along this line, it makes sense to me, since Soul and Spirit mean the same in Greek….And the mind is not the Spirit, which Georg doesn't believe….Irene
t8,mike, Irene,
think the man in question is CHRIST,to me the different values in money represent different times in the span to his return,more gifts at first and less as closer to his return,the product of interest is the result of the spirit what we have put in our soul,this is also reflected in the letters to the churches letters in the book of revelation,
The Parable of the Talents
25:14-30 Ref—;Lk 19:12-27
Mt 25:14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them.
Mt 25:15 To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.
Mt 25:16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more.
Mt 25:17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more.
Mt 25:18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
Mt 25:19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.
Mt 25:20 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’
Mt 25:21 “His master replied, ’Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
Mt 25:22 “The man with the two talents also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’
Mt 25:23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
Mt 25:24 “Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
Mt 25:25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
Mt 25:26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Mt 25:27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
Mt 25:28 “ ‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
Mt 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
Mt 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’do you understand ?? or am I in error ??
our soul is not our spirit (mind) the soul is US as individual,but our spirit (mind) is our product (ability to fill the soul with good or bad knowledge and intention)
and it is trough our flesh that we act on that knowledge and will power we have in the soul,Pierre
Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 19 2011,23:07) The following two verses are the ones that raise the questions concerning the difference between “spirit and soul”: “May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” [1 Thessalonians 5:23]
“The word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” [Hebrews 4:12]
In these two verses the word translated “spirit” is the Greek word “pneuma” which means “a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or breeze” which by analogy refers to a human “spirit” the rational “soul.” The word translated “soul” in the verse is the Greek word “psuche” which means “breath” and by implication “spirit.” So the use of the two words does not indicate that the immaterial part of man could be divided, but rather are used simply for emphasis. There are not three parts to humans (body, soul, and spirit) but only two (body and “soul or spirit”). Throughout Scripture we see the two terms “spirit” and “soul” used interchangeably:
Yes they both can reference breath supposedly.But what do you say about the following verse:
1 Corinthians 2:14
the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.'The natural man' is a translation from 'the soulish man'.
The soulish man is obviously different to the spiritual man or spiritually minded man.
We are encouraged to the be the latter, not the former.
If both words meant the same thing, then how do you explain the huge difference in usage in 1 Corinthians 2:14?
Surely they are different.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2011,01:28) Pierre, Quote Matthew 5
King James Version (KJV)6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Using the above scripture tell me what part of a human being hungers and thirsts after righteousness?
Quote Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Using the above scriptures tell me if the fruit of the Spirit fills that part that is starving for righteousness or not?
So what part of a human hungers and what part of a human fills that hunger? Are they the same part or are they different?
Kerwinyou did not read what I explain ,and so you do not understand what you are writing either,
please read the previous quotes
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2011,07:13) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2011,01:28) Pierre, Quote Matthew 5
King James Version (KJV)6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Using the above scripture tell me what part of a human being hungers and thirsts after righteousness?
Quote Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Using the above scriptures tell me if the fruit of the Spirit fills that part that is starving for righteousness or not?
So what part of a human hungers and what part of a human fills that hunger? Are they the same part or are they different?
Kerwinyou did not read what I explain ,and so you do not understand what you are writing either,
please read the previous quotes
Pierre
Pierre,I do have difficulty understanding you.
I know what I wrote though I erred in my formatting. I strove to make it short and asked you questions related to the scriptures I quoted. I would like your answers. Thank you.
T8,
Quote The word for natural in the first scripture is psuchikos.
The word for soul in the second scripture is psuche.Thank you for giving me more food for research and thought.
Pseuche is the root for psuchikos and both can speak of the soul of beasts. It appears some translators believe that the context of 1 Corinthians 2:14and associated verses shows that it should be rendered so in contrast to a saintly man whom understands spiritual things. Mark 8:36 has a different context and so the translators concluded it had a different meaning.
Quote So the natural man who cannot fathom the things of the spirit of God is actually a SOULISH man. I would venture to say that beastly man is a better translation as it parallels a sentiment expressed by both Peter and Jude in their letters, though the word “zoon” is translated “beast”, 2 Peter 2:12 and Jude 1:10.
Consider :
Quote Romans 8:16
King James Version (KJV)16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
.. which demonstrates that a believer has a spirit of their own which bears witness with the Spirit of God that the believer is a child of God. You also remember that Jesus instructed us that by their fruits you will know them and so it is the fruits of God’s spirit and a godly spirit that will make his brothers known.
It seems to me that the fruits of a godly spirit are one and the same as the fruits of a godly character. I see the inner man having a character but not being character.
Quote Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 21 2011,00:36) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2011,07:13) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2011,01:28) Pierre, Quote Matthew 5
King James Version (KJV)6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Using the above scripture tell me what part of a human being hungers and thirsts after righteousness?
Quote Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.Using the above scriptures tell me if the fruit of the Spirit fills that part that is starving for righteousness or not?
So what part of a human hungers and what part of a human fills that hunger? Are they the same part or are they different?
Kerwinyou did not read what I explain ,and so you do not understand what you are writing either,
please read the previous quotes
Pierre
Pierre,I do have difficulty understanding you.
I know what I wrote though I erred in my formatting. I strove to make it short and asked you questions related to the scriptures I quoted. I would like your answers. Thank you.
Kerwinour soul is not our spirit (mind) the soul is US as individual,but our spirit (mind) is our product (ability to fill the soul with good or bad knowledge and intention)
and it is trough our flesh that we act on that knowledge and will power we have in the soul,we can fill our mind with all sorts of things and it will be loaded in our soul, and so become pure or filthy ,approved or rejected by God ,
so what the verse is saying to me ,is fill your soul with the love of good and approve thing so that it will be saved when the judgment is made,and be found righteous.
JUST UNDERSTAND THAT THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT IS NOT OF OUR SPIRIT BUT
GODS SPIRIT
THIS IS WHAT PAUL RECOMMEND TO LOOK FOR AND PRACTICE THEM.Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2011,22:08) our soul is not our spirit (mind) the soul is US as individual,but our spirit (mind) is our product (ability to fill the soul with good or bad knowledge and intention)
and it is trough our flesh that we act on that knowledge and will power we have in the soul,we can fill our mind with all sorts of things and it will be loaded in our soul, and so become pure or filthy ,approved or rejected by God ,
so what the verse is saying to me ,is fill your soul with the love of good and approve thing so that it will be saved when the judgment is made,and be found righteous.
Terricca………..This is right our Soul is not our Spirit but are vessels that can contain Spirits (intellects) of all kind, both good and evil or clean or unclean spirits (intellects). spirits never die it is impossible for them to, but “LIVING SOULS CAN DIE”, God can destory “BOTH” in the grave, our bodies and the life in it. A soul = a LIVING BODY, and Spirits are what can be add them.The biggest problem here is not knowing what Spirit really is by Most people. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene
Gene. When God breathed into Adam's body, he became a living soul.
But you say he became a living body.
Why doesn't scripture say, “living body” if that is what was meant?Quote (t8 @ Sep. 20 2011,15:07) Thanks for your input Kerwin.
Something to consider.
T8,I too thank you and I also agree that it is something to consider.
Pierre,
Quote JUST UNDERSTAND THAT THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT IS NOT OF OUR SPIRIT BUT GODS SPIRIT
It is my understanding that the Spirit of God teaches our spirit to grow the fruits of righteousness.
Quote THIS IS WHAT PAUL RECOMMEND TO LOOK FOR AND PRACTICE THEM. Our spirit learns by obeying the teachings of the Spirit of God by the power of God that comes through faith.
Quote our soul is not our spirit (mind) the soul is US as individual, but our spirit (mind) is our product (ability to fill the soul with good or bad knowledge and intention)
and it is trough our flesh that we act on that knowledge and will power we have in the soul,we can fill our mind with all sorts of things and it will be loaded in our soul, and so become pure or filthy ,approved or rejected by God ,
so what the verse is saying to me ,is fill your soul with the love of good and approve thing so that it will be saved when the judgment is made, and be found righteous.
The evidence I have seen equates the soul to the mind and not the spirit but what you say seems to have some truth in it but is yet incomplete.
Quote Romans 7
King James Version (KJV)22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?In this passage Paul uses inward man and mind as synonyms of one another.
Quote Romans 7
King James Version (KJV)24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.This scripture demonstrates the mind is a slave to the law of sin that is in the flesh.
This is what we are taught about the flesh.
Quote Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.So what two parts of Paul are struggling against each other?
How does Jesus deliver him from the struggle?
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