The soul

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 12 2011,02:06)

Thanks for sharing that Mike. Seems not only logical but also aligns with this scripture: 1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Many acknowledge a spirit and body, but not a soul that is different to the spirit.

Jesus acknowledged the difference between the body and soul in Matthew 10:28, the scripture Irene just quoted.  Add to that knowledge the scriptural fact that our spirit goes back to Him who gave it.

To me, that says THREE things:  body, soul and spirit.

The body decays and is no more.  The spirit goes back to God.  That leaves the soul, which is what only God can destroy. And if God doesn't destroy it, it remains the only thing left of us after we die; and therefore the only thing from which God revives us by adding spirit and body. IMO

[Proclaimer]

That is how I see it Mike.

The body goes to dust, the spirit goes back to God leaving the soul. But once the spirit enters the soul again, it becomes a living soul.

The difference between the soul and spirit is like the bone and marrow.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 14 2011,02:02)

T8………..Yes if you break down all the components three is what you get, but One is the complete component. For instance you example of North America, South America, Americas, The word Americas represents the total of them all. They are all the Americas. The same with Body Soul and Spirit, the word Soul representing all, the combination of Body + Spirit = a Soul, so if Paul were talking about about all of our existence He would mention Body, soul and spirit another words the complete being . IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………….gene

Thanks Gene,

My question is that in a normal situation when you mention 3 things, you are talking about 3 things.

It is not normal to say all of North America, The Americas, and South America.

as equivalent to your whole body, soul, spirit.

You wouldn't speak or write the first sentence because the sum of the first and third points are in second point.
So why does Paul do that?
And if you were going to do it, it makes more sense to say your whole body and spirit, and soul.
But Paul makes the soul the second point, when the sum usually goes at the end.

If it is indeed a sum as you suggest: (body + spirit = soul)

Then Paul is saying 1 + 3 = 2
when it should be 1 + 2 = 3

1 = body
2 = soul
3 = spirit

Even the latter sum doesn't work when equated to body, soul, spirit does it?

So it is not a sum that he is suggesting but 3 separate things.
Unless of course it was, but Paul bumped his head quite hard that day.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 14 2011,06:58)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 12 2011,02:06) Thanks for sharing that Mike. Seems not only logical but also aligns with this scripture: 1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Many acknowledge a spirit and body, but not a soul that is different to the spirit. Jesus acknowledged the difference between the body and soul in Matthew 10:28, the scripture Irene just quoted.  Add to that knowledge the scriptural fact that our spirit goes back to Him who gave it. To me, that says THREE things:  body, soul and spirit. The body decays and is no more.  The spirit goes back to God.  That leaves the soul, which is what only God can destroy.  And if God doesn't destroy it, it remains the only thing left of us after we die; and therefore the only thing from which God revives us by adding spirit and body.  IMO

Mike,

I believe that the body, soul, and spirit are three different things but I also believe the soul is also the spirit but not as the spirit is.

The body is the tent.

The soul that also called spirit because it is non-corporial is the inner man that is found naked when the body perishes.

The spirit that is the seat of character because the fruits of living by the character of God and one and the same as the fruits of living by the saintly spirit.

It is not only the later that returnss to God as it never leaves him.  It is the spirit that is the naked man that returns to God to await its resurrection from the dead.

The word “spirit” is used in at least two different ways and so it can be hard to understand what it means in each particular use.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8………..I try to consider all scripture in this understanding, of Body , Soul and Spirit. When Jesus told us to fear him who could destory (now please notice) “BOTH” Body and Soul (IN) the Grave. He did not use Body soul and spirit, why? because Spirit can not be destroyed in the grave,   but a Body which is your “LIVING SOUL”  or complete “BEING”, that can absorb spirit can be destroyed (IN) the Grave. You simply can not exist without a body, to adsorb spirit, in which Spirit can rest (IN)> ” in the day a man dies his thoughts Parish Now if your thoughts Parish you simply no longer exist, that is why God can destory us (IN) the grave if he so choses to, because we already are in a destoryed state after death.  There remains no activity at all the Body goes back to dust from which it cam and the Spirit goes back the the one how gave it. There remains no “MYSTERY” after life activity at all going on.

Another point we can ask when did man become a “LIVING SOUL” was it not after He breath life into him that he began to LIVE as a LIVING SOUL. All living Physical creation have a Soul , He then could simulate Spirit Into his body through his mind, but when he dies that spirit leaves his Body or Soul, (the complete Being) and returns to him who gave it, and the Soul see corruption and is no more living. Scripture say God would not allow Jesus' Soul to see “corruption”  like our does. now if a soul corrupts then it no longer exists. it must be reconstructed or “RESURRECTED”  by creation of an exact replica of it DNA. Just as my example of the pepper plant was. That only God himself Can Do.   IMO

T8 there is no life after death of any kind, that is “MYSTERY RELIGION” teachings. When the soul of any creature dies it is over for that creature whether Man or any animal. In fact our Souls are compared to animals in scripture as they die so do we there is not difference mentioned in scriptures. The ancient religion of the Pagans like the Pharaohs of Egypt believed in the nether world or after life of some kind as well many other Pagan races of people , but the fact are when we die that is it, until a resurrection takes place if GOD so Choose to we are complete in his Hands. IMO

peace and love…………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

All

1Th 5:18 give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
1Th 5:19 Do not put out the Spirit’s fire;
1Th 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt.
1Th 5:21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
1Th 5:22 Avoid every kind of evil.
1Th 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

here to me it seems that Paul mention the “spirit ” of men does not mean the soul but the attitude and character toward the will of God ,the soul being US filled by our attitude and character (spirit )produce trough our flesh the deeds of the will of God,so being full of truth would mean being full (right attitude ,and character )of Gods will in our actions, thinking,and all this is done(shown) trough the flesh(our body);

this is also how we will be judge worthy or not by God,

Pierre

[Pastry]

Hi All! So confusing… but Georg agree's with Gene… that the Soul is the body….His explanation is that first that God did not give us the Soul, we became a Living Soul…. all Animals are also Souls,,,Nefesh in Hebrew- they have a Body, but not a mind or Spirit. In fact all living things are Souls or have a body….one Scripture I looked at in
1Sa 18:1 ¶ And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

Here Jonathan and David knit together…. what did they do? Their bodies came together, not their insides or Spirits….but it also could mean that they all believed the same things…. meaning their minds….

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous [are] thy works; and [that] my soul knoweth right well.

Psa 142:7 Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.

Bring my Soul out of prison….MMMMMMMMMM bring my Spirit out of prison? Bring my mind out of prison? Or bring my body out of prison? I go for body in this Scripture….

1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now look at this Scripture, I am more confused then ever……but lets ask this question:” How will anyone preserve the body for how many years? It decease, it become dust…
I will leave it here… and will certainly pray about this….

Also
John told us to let the mind which is in Jesus be in you also… let the mind? Let the Spirit?
It is the Spirit, not the Soul… Since it is so con fusion in all the Scriptures I looked at my conclusion is that the Soul is our body…..we became a living Soul, God did not give us a Soul….

Gen 2:7 then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
that to me speaks….but like I said before I will pray about it……Peace Irene

[Pastry]

I made this post some time ago

Group: Regular Members
Posts: 2354
Joined: Aug. 2010
Posted: Feb. 20 2011,22:40 QUOTE
Some more scriptures about the Soul or Body….
Pro 11:25 The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.

question, can a Spirit be made fat?

Pro 11:30 The fruit of the righteous [is] a tree of life; and he that winneth souls [is] wise.

This can be taken to be a Spirit….Or it can be body also….

Psa 16:9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

These are talking about the body-flesh..

Psa 23:1 ¶ [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

These are some of my favorite Psalms which we sang..THE LORD IS MY SHEPARD, NOTHING SHAll I want….
He restoreth my Soul…

Conclusion, going through some more Scriptures, I find that some times Soul means body like in Genesis 2:7, Hebrew 4:12 and Psalms 11;25 and other times it is the Spirit……
I went through all of the Psalms and that is what I found….
Peace and love Irene

[Pastry]

This is a post that Gene made…. I don't always agree with Gene, but in this case He has given us the real translation in  Hebrew what Soul, Spirit and body means….
terricca……….Simple look up the word used there for Soul and you will find it is SPIRIT (Ruach) breathe , not Naphesh (Soul) or a Being)>  Look it up and that might solve your confusions. Many times Scripture mix up those two words because Spirit is the intellect of the Soul (PERSON)> But as Jesus said Both the BODY and The SOUL (which includes his body) can be destroyed by GOD (IN) the Grave. NOT the SPIRIT because it goes back to its source from where it came Your spirit is (NOT) unique to you, Your BODY is unique to YOU.  

Spirit (intellect) is Spirit (intellect) and the same spirit (intellect) you have can be in anyone or in All. Why do you think Jesus sai I (IN) You and YOU (IN) Me, it is by the (SAME SPIRIT INTELLECT)”THAT GOD MAY BE IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL”> The only difference is the Bodies he is (IN) God lives vicariously (IN) all His creation. That is why he knows even when a Sparrow fall to the ground, because the animal released it spirit (intellect) in it , the same as when men die their spirit (intellect)(IN) them is released back to GOD. GOD is the very Life of all physical creation that has life (IN) it.

When a person dies he no longer EXISTS no more then when a animal dies It no longer exists either, “So dies on So dies the other”. There is NO difference between us and the other animals in GOD'S creation , except we have More Spirit (intellect) in us then they do. WE can come to posses all seven Spirit of GOD (IN) us just as Jesus Now has in Him. IMO

[terraricca]

Irene

Quote

terricca……….Simple look up the word used there for Soul and you will find it is SPIRIT (Ruach) breathe , not Naphesh (Soul) or a Being)> Look it up and that might solve your confusions.

I am not confused at all, go look back in the beginning of this tread what I have said and stand by,

Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 15 2011,00:59)

T8………..I try to consider all scripture in this understanding, of Body , Soul and Spirit. When Jesus told us to fear him who could destory (now please notice) “BOTH” Body and Soul (IN) the Grave. He did not use Body soul and spirit, why?

But does that not support the idea that body soul and spirit are 3 things?

And yes, we know that the spirit goes back to God who gave it, so the reason why God can destroy both the body and soul.

In Revelation it talks about the souls of the martyrs under the altar and they cried out to God for vengeance against the wicked. That seems to indicate that the soul can exist without the body as this is before the resurrection.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 15 2011,02:12)

Hi All! So confusing… but Georg agree's with Gene… that the Soul is the body….His explanation is that first that God did not give us the Soul, we became a Living Soul.

Hi Irene.

But it is also possible that Adam was a soul housed in a body, and became a living soul when the spirit or breath of God entered him.

After all, it doesn't say that Adam became a soul, but a living soul, leaving the possibility that Adam was already a soul.

[Pastry]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 15 2011,08:44)

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 15 2011,02:12) Hi All!  So confusing… but Georg agree's with Gene… that the Soul is the body….His explanation is that first that God did not give us the Soul, we became a Living Soul. Hi Irene. But it is also possible that Adam was a soul housed in a body, and became a living soul when the spirit or breath of God entered him. After all, it doesn't say that Adam became a soul, but a living soul, leaving the possibility that Adam was already a soul.

t8 All is possible with God…. But reading all again, it goes both ways at times… Some Scriptures plainly state it is the Spirit in man, and other times it is the Soul….Georg believes it is used interchangeably…. Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……….Try considering this  that a body is nothing but matter it can not think at all it can not animate itself or realize its existences it is simply Matter , now in order for this matter to become a “Living Being” or  SOUL it must be activated by GOD, Once this activation takes place it is now a “living Soul” that can simulate Spirit (intellect) into it, these spirits (intellects) enter into that Living Soul, then that “LIVING SOUL” begins to act out what Spirits (INTELLECTS) are teaching and influencing it to do. IMO

peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………………………….gene

[terraricca]

all

Look it this way ,Adam prior to receiving the breath of live = a parked car , Adam with the breath of live = car start moving and adding miles,road map ,places ,ect.
the soul = the driver

Pierre

[kerwin]

To all,

I see that some seem to be confusing two different non-corporeal elements of a human being because they are each called spirit in scripture at certain times.

In both Hebrew and Greek the non-corporeal is spoken of as the wind.  Jesus compares the spirit of God to the wind with these words.

Quote

John 3:8 King James Version (KJV)  8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. So in understand what spirit a particular passage of scripture is speaking of we should look at the effects of that spirit spoken of in that passage.   Knowing that and reading: Galatians 5 King James Version (KJV) 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

:We can see that the spirit spoken of in Galatians 5:22-23 is the character, for love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness,  and temperance are all the fruit of the character of God.

Now we look at Ecclesiastes and see a different use of the word spirit.

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Ecclesiastes 3:21 King James Version (KJV) 21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

This scripture is not literally stating it is a mystery whether the character of man goes upward and the spirit of a beast goes downward, since the character of God does not leave God and the character that falls short of God’s glory will not ascend to his kingdom.  

To see what it means let’s look at:

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2 Corinthians 5 King James Version (KJV) 1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

:where we find the naked individual clothed in the body.

Another passage to consider is:

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Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV) 28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

:Which clearly speaks of the bodiless individual as the soul.

So Ecclesiastes is asking who knows if the sprit(non-corporeal soul) of a human being ascends and the spirit(non-corporeal soul) of a beast descends.

I hope this aids you in clearing up the matter.

[Pastry]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 15 2011,12:26)

all Look it this way ,Adam prior to receiving the breath of live = a parked car , Adam with the breath of live = car start moving and adding miles,road map ,places ,ect. the soul = the driver Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2011,16:18)

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. [/quote] :Which clearly speaks of the bodiless individual as the soul. So Ecclesiastes is asking who knows if the sprit(non-corporeal soul) of a human being ascends and the spirit(non-corporeal soul) of a beast descends. I hope this aids you in clearing up the matter.

Kerwin……….If God can destory “BOTH” Body and Soul in the GRAVE then that is the complete Man and the reason he can destory them “BOTH” in the Grave is becasue man can not exist as a Living Soul without a Body. It takes a Body with life in it to have a ” LIVING SOUL” otherwise you would simply have a dead or Perished Soul.. Spirit is absorbed into that Living Soul or Person. John says all that is in the world , the lust of the flesh , the list of the eyes , the pride of life are FROM THE WORLD.

That is becasue we as LIVING Souls can absorb Spirits into us. And these Spirit (intellects) effect our behavior whether good or evil of God or of the world or man. WE as “LIVING SOULS ” are able to absorb them into our thinking. Therefore it say “IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED CHRIST JESUS FROM THE DEAD DWELL IN YOU (IT) SHALL ALSO QUICKEN (or bring back to life) YOUR MORTAL “BODIES” . Notice it say “Bodies” not Souls why? becasue the Body alive is a LIVING SOUL or a LIVING BEING. You simply can not have a Living Body without it being a Soul whether a animal or a human being, if they are alive they are a “LIVING SOUL”> If they are dead that are no longer a LIVING SOUL.

MYSTERY RELIGION has brought the idea of a nether world where when a person dies he is still existing in another life form in some MYSTERIOUS STATE of Existences. But scripture say when a Person dies their “THOUGHTS PARISH” So a person whose thoughts have “PERISHED” is hardly alive any longer. That soul whether Man or animal is dead completely without any hope of live again, and unless God Chooses to resurrect another Body and add Life Back into it, that person is dead for ever. NO after Life exists when a person dies, we just have the HOPE of a RESURRECTION Back to LIFE we are totally in the Hands of GOD the Father. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Kerwin…………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart.

You cannot divide the soul FROM the spirit unless they are two different things.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

One cannot kill the body while the soul remains alive unless they are two different things.

So just from two scriptures, we can learn that the spirit is something different than the soul, which is in turn something different than the body.

peace,
mike

[kerwin]

Gene,

Quote

If God can destory “BOTH” Body and Soul in the GRAVE then that is the complete Man and the reason he can destory them “BOTH” in the Grave is becasue man can not exist as a Living Soul without a Body

That is your understanding of the words of Jesus in Matthew 10:28 but your understanding makes Jesus words sound like nonsense.    Despite what you may think I am, positive that Jesus was not teaching that the soul died when the body died because then those that kill the body would kill both the soul and the body.  

God takes the soul into his care when the body perishes.  

Here is an account of the souls of some whose body has perished and yet not destroyed.

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Revelation 6:9 King James Version (KJV)  9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Here Jesus teaches that the soul is still alive after death because God is a God of the living.

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Matthew 22:32 King James Version (KJV) 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

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It takes a Body with life in it to have a  LIVING SOUL

Here is a scripture that speaks of the breath of life plus the body being a living soul when combined but that does not contradict the teachings of Jesus and so the person must be alive even when their body has perished, just as Jesus teaches were Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  

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Genesis 2:7 King James Version (KJV)  7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The non-corporeal person that is our essential self does not perish when the tent of our body does but we no longer are a living being.

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otherwise you would simply have a dead or Perished Soul..

You can call the soul dead when it  is the soul a dead creation even though the soul still lives as the soul is just part of the whole human being.

To support that scripture we can observe that  Scripture teaches us that the soul, is merely part of the whole by using the words “my soul” and stating it is “in me”.

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Psalm 42:5 King James Version (KJV) 5Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.

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MYSTERY RELIGION has brought the idea of a nether world where when a person dies he still exists in another life form in some MYSTERIOUS STATE of Existences.

Hardly true as even from the days of Mosses the summoning of dead souls was condemned by the Law.

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Deuteronomy 18:11 King James Version (KJV) 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

But scripture say when a Person dies their “THOUGHTS PARISH”

Here is what it actually states.

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Ecclesiastes 9:5 King James Version (KJV)  5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Who here doubt that those that dies in Christ will have a reward in heaven even though this passage states “neither have they any more a reward”.  Who believes God has forgotten the dead?    We know which understanding s are correct from the context of other scripture.  We also  know  that the dead know no hope as we each die once and then are subject to judgment and thus either their hope is realized or not when the perish and await judgment as their trial is over.

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