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Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 24 2011,15:14) Kerwin, Quote I believe both the soul and spirit are spirit in cosistency which is why they are the part of mankind that gives life to the body. The spirit can be replaced which is why God instructs sinners to get a new spirit. The spirit is also a guide we walk according to as we are instructed to walk by the spirit. Neither of those commands were given in connection with the soul.
Both the spirit and soul make up the spirit part of man and are housed in the tent of the body. The body is made up of different parts as well.
Yes, indeed, I will have to say that from an honest and truthful perspective you have a very accurate picture of that which we call soul is. Probably took some soul-searching right?
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
A very clever play on words just like Jesus does at times.Thank you for the compliment. I have searched in more ways than one but then Jesus taught us to ask, seek, and knock and God gives good things to those who seek his righteousness and his kingdom.
God will guide your steps on the path of righteousness.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 24 2011,19:54) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 24 2011,10:26) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 23 2011,22:24) Wispring………….Just look up the Hebrew word for Soul and the look at all the scriptures using that word and see what they say and you will find out the Soul is the (COMPLETE PERSON), which is a BODY and SPIRIT. Genesis, does not say a man became a LIVING SOUL,(NEPHESH) , by having a BODY and A SOUL and A SPIRIT as they assume, Scripture does not say that, it simply say GOD made a BODY and Breath the Breath of Life INTO IT and then MAN became a “LIVING” Soul. The GREEKS divided up the word Nephesh (Soul) into two Parts (Pusico) and (pneuma) because they believed in demons and people continue living after they die as many People here do. But Jesus Said In revelations “HE WAS DEAD” and (NOW) He was alive for ever more. He did not say he was still alive when he was in the grave as some kind of SOUL LIFE, that is PURE PAGAN GARBAGE TEACHINGS of MYSTERY RELIGIONS> Be careful of Some here they are experts at Twisting up scripture to meet there MYSTERY RELIGIOUS TEACHINGS> GO back and read what David posted and all the scripture he used and put them together , “THE SUM OF GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH”. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………..Gene
You are correct that is one definition of “soul” but you are incorrect in thinking it is the only definition of “soul”.At time the word “flesh” is also used to mean the complete person but in other places it is used only to be the material body of a person and in yet other places it means merely the skin of that body.
Gene,You did not respond to this post and I was wonderting if you understand that I am stating that you are using one definition of the word “soul” exclusively while scripture uses more than one definition according to the context.
Kerwin……….Yes i do understand that the Soul can be understood differently as witnessed here. But the bottom line is the Soul is still the (COMPLETE) BEING, which includes a BODY, because without a body we cease to exist, we are (Dead) and our thoughts have Perished Scripture says those in the grave Know nothing there (thoughts) have PERISHED, Not fallen to sleep BUT PERISHED. Notice it say (THEIR) Thoughts, another words there is no longer a (THEIR) when they die because everything about a man cease to exist any longer, and the Spirit that came form God in the first place returns to him. that is it, no more Us or a Their,exists, and Unless GOD recreates a BODY With our Exact DNA and add spirit back into it as Shown by Ezekiel at the valley of dry bones and as Jesus showed us by his resurrection with a body, we simply would no longer exist. The only thing about us that can't die is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) that came from GOD and goes back to him. It (spirit) can never die , It (spirit) can be removed and then the soul (the complete being)ceases to exist any longer. That is why GOD can DESTROY us (IN) the GRAVE Kerwin, because that is where we can be DESTROYED for EVER. It is simple if you think about it, God just reconstructs a Body and Adds Spirit Back into it and you become a living Soul again, just as he did in Genesis. Nothing more or nothing less. IMOpeace and lvoe to you and yours Brother……………………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 23 2011,23:08) All we are or we have a soul ,this is were Gene is confused.
we have a soul but we are not a soul.right?
Pierre
Hi Pierre,You've hit the nail on the head, and yes, you're right. We all HAVE a soul, but according to Jesus, the soul is something other than the body. For man can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Jesus says so, and that's good enough for me.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2011,20:57) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 23 2011,23:08) All we are or we have a soul ,this is were Gene is confused.
we have a soul but we are not a soul.right?
Pierre
Hi Pierre,You've hit the nail on the head, and yes, you're right. We all HAVE a soul, but according to Jesus, the soul is something other than the body. For man can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Jesus says so, and that's good enough for me.
peace and love,
mike
Mikeno problem
Gene,
You inadvertantly confuse me by using different definitions for words than I understand. What is does “spirit” in your sentence “It (spirit) can never die.” Mean?
You also state…
Quote That is why GOD can DESTROY us (IN) the GRAVE Kerwin, because that is where we can be DESTROYED for EVER.
…which seems to disagree with Jesus who states those in The Grave yet live. Can you please explain what you means so I can understand how what Jesus teaches about those in The Grave yet living agrees with your statement that God can destroy us in The Grave. Thank you!
Kerwin………… The reason i say Spirit cane not die is because (it) is what LIFE (IS) The lacking of understand what SPIRIT (IS) is the problem we are having here, Spirit is NOT a PERSON, (it ) is a (IT) It is (INTELLECT) that enlighten the Mind of Man (IT) spirit is the engine or power that drives our thinking. (it) comes in many types, like the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of Wisdom , the Spirit of Jealously, the Spirit of clean and unclean things on and on it goes. If these Spirits are (IN) a Person they (CAUSE) him to think a certain way along those lines, Spirit can be removed or replaces or added into a person, or CAST OUT as Jesus did. God said He would Pour forth of HIS Spirit (intellect).
There is all Kind of spirits but these are not Beings they produce attributes of themselves in our lives through our minds, That is why Jesus said Let this MIND be IN YOU which was(IN) Christ Jesus our lord (IT) is the exact same Mind it is the Mind of or from GOD. The very word we speak transfer Spirits to others, Jesus Spoke GOD the FATHERS Words to US and Said they were Spirit and Life. We are told to try the Spirits to see if they are of GOD , so we listen to what people say and if the words of God abide (IN) you you are able to know if what you are hearing is of GOD or Not, by the Intellects being or spirits being expressed through words to you by others. This is what it means to try the spirits. IMO
Now is spirit the complete Man or being, NO (IT), is Part of the being but certainly not the whole being because the rest of the Being is the Body he or she has. ALL Spirits or Kinds of intellect, has alway existed we all do share some of the same spirits i have and everyone shares many kinds of intellects in fact all thinking is composed of these intellects and even LORD has and uses these spirit intellects also. He send them forth from him into all the earth, every creature has them to some degree in them also. The confusion IMO is when we think Spirits are BEINGS of Some Kind like where the disciples thought Jesus after his resurrection thought He was a Spirit Being or Ghost. Jesus went on to say Spirit did not have flesh and bone as he did , so in fact he was saying he was not a Spirit but a live human being with a Body. He was a complete living Soul. God did not leave his Soul to see corruption and the rest of humanities Souls do. Remember it say the Soul that Sins (IT) Shall die , we have all sinned we all are Souls and we all die. But thanks be to GOD through the forgiveness of our Sins through the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ we will recieve a New Body with Spirit in it and just as before we will become a Living Soul again. A complete being again after death. This is the way I see it brother.
Kerwin i think this is where we might be different in our views brother I hope i have cleared up my understand to you brother.
Peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………gene
Kerwin……..Where did Jesus say those in the grave “Yet live”, as i recall he said a (man) by killing our body, Cant Kill our SOUL (the complete being), Why because GOD can reconstruct a BODY and Add Spirit back into it (as the valley of dry bones shows) and the resurrection of Jesus also shows. So, Man though he can Kill you, can NOT (DESTROY) you , only God can (DESTROY) a person, how?, by leaving Him in the GRAVE he will never again be a LIVING SOUL But a DEAD ONE> If God leaves him in that dead state. Kerwin Just two things make up a SOUL, a BODY, and the Spirits in it many Kinds and types (IN) it. Hope that help clarify it brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Gene,
I believe you have concluded that the spirit is the breath of life. I have a similar belief in that I believe the spiritual part of man is the breath of life but I differ in that I have come to conclude that the spiritual part of man is composed both of the soul of a man and the spirit that guides that man.
An example of the spirit that guides a man is the spirit of holiness that one receives when one obeys Jesus' teaching on how to obtain it. A soul without a spirit is like a bode without a way to steer.
Jesus proves those who are in the grave yet live when he proves to the Saduccees there is a resurection of the dead. That is why he stated at times that those whose breath of life had departed were sleeping.
Kerwin………. Brother We really aren't that far apart except i believe a Soul is A BODY With SPIRIT (IN) It. I believe the rudder “so to speak” that guides the (boat, our Body) is the HOLY Spirit or better known as the HOLY Spirit (INTELLECT) of TRUTH> Which we can recieve in to out Minds from GOD and This particular Spirit (INTELLECT) enables us to distinguish between a lie and the truth, and as a result those who have it (IN) them can't Not be decieved any longer. Remember where it says that satan, or the adversarial Spirit (intellect))could even deceive the vary Elect “IF IT WERE POSSIBLE”, another words it is not possible to deceive the Elect of GOD because they have in them the HOLY SPIRIT (intellect) of the truth, which is the the Earnest of GOD given us we are told.
We may have to get down to the nidy-gridy on some of these scriptures to produce a more sound excellent understanding between us brother.
Hope all is going well with you Kidney thing Brother.
Peace and love to you and yours…………..gene
Hi Gene,
Ever read the book “The Findhorn Garden”? Interesting stuff that harmonized with your theological view in many respects I think.With Love and Respect,
WispringWisring…………No i have not read it , but might look into it thanks.
peace and love to you and your…………………………..gene
All
Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Ge 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.
Ge 2:9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.at this point can anyone say that Adam could have died???
i would assume yes ,if not why did God made the tree of live
and also notice that Adam was FORMED and then recieved the btreath in is nostrils.
so to me it would mean that all what was formed was flesh,the soul is what make us and make inventory of all we do,
God also form all creatures in this way;Ge 2:19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
see and understand;
Ge 3:10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
Ge 3:11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?this is the trigger of the soul ,
Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?Pierre
Hi Gene and Pierre,
I cordially invite you to post on the thread I initiated that is named “Jesus said”.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ Mar. 28 2011,17:00) Hi Gene and Pierre,
I cordially invite you to post on the thread I initiated that is named “Jesus said”.With Love and Respect,
Wispring
wispringbe glad to
Pierre
To All………Back to the Soul , i maintain a SOUL (IS) a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) IT, and the he Word SOUL represents the (COMPLETE) Person as Hebrew scriptures show it does. GOD can easily (DESTROY) your couplet (BEING) or Nephesh (a body + Spirit) by leaving your dead body in it dead state in the GRAVE and not resurrecting it. All resurrection to life after death show a Body with Spirit added back into it , even Jesus' resurrection show this. Nothing Mysterious or religious about it, not soul drifting off some where still alive in the neither world or anywhere else. It is absolute crucial we obtain a resurrection of our Bodies in order to continue to live . IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 29 2011,10:49) To All………Back to the Soul , i maintain a SOUL (IS) a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) IT, and the he Word SOUL represents the (COMPLETE) Person as Hebrew scriptures show it does. GOD can easily (DESTROY) your couplet (BEING) or Nephesh (a body + Spirit) by leaving your dead body in it dead state in the GRAVE and not resurrecting it. All resurrection to life after death show a Body with Spirit added back into it , even Jesus' resurrection show this. Nothing Mysterious or religious about it, not soul drifting off some where still alive in the neither world or anywhere else. It is absolute crucial we obtain a resurrection of our Bodies in order to continue to live . IMO peace and love to you all……………………………………..gene
genewould that mean that what you believe is scriptural
Pierre
Terricca…………I believe it to be. Pierre here is some scriptures for you to consider.
Gen 1:24 …> And God said, Let the earth bring forth the LIVING CREATURE (please notice the word (Creature) is (Nephesh) the same word we translate as (Soul)…..> after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after their his kind: and it was so.
These were all living souls or Nepheshs.
Now Lets go down to Adam , now please notice in the above it was GOD speaking in the singular sense, but now when it comes to Man it changes to the Plural sense of GOD.
Gen 1:26…..> And God said. Let (US) make man in our IMAGE, after our likeness; and let hem have dominion………>
Gen1:27….> So God created man in his Image, in the image of God created he HIM; ……..
Gen 2:7…..> And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living Soul, or Creature or Nephesh. but notice it was not until AFTER he breathe into his nostrils the breath of Life that man became a LIVING SOUL, so before that what was Adam a DEAD peace of formed dust he was not alive or living at all until GOD breathe into his nostrils the breath of life.
So why does anyone try to make it out to be more then this simple scripture explains?
Again a Man is a Complete Person who is composed of a Flesh Body with the breath of life (IN) him and that constitutes a (Living Soul), After a man becomes a living Soul he begins to acquire other Spiritual intellects into his mind , these spirit intellects can be altered changed or removed or by GOD or by education , increased and even decreased.
To me there is nothing complicated about any of this. You are no longer a living Soul when you die you are a dead soul and you will stay dead until God decides to reconstruct your body and add spirit back into it, if he doesn't you are gone for ever. Destroyed for ever in a Perished state. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
Hi Gene,
Will you please provide the scripture that shows God has a body?With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 29 2011,14:57) Terricca…………I believe it to be. Pierre here is some scriptures for you to consider. Gen 1:24 …> And God said, Let the earth bring forth the LIVING CREATURE (please notice the word (Creature) is (Nephesh) the same word we translate as (Soul)…..> after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after their his kind: and it was so.
These were all living souls or Nepheshs.
Now Lets go down to Adam , now please notice in the above it was GOD speaking in the singular sense, but now when it comes to Man it changes to the Plural sense of GOD.
Gen 1:26…..> And God said. Let (US) make man in our IMAGE, after our likeness; and let hem have dominion………>
Gen1:27….> So God created man in his Image, in the image of God created he HIM; ……..
Gen 2:7…..> And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living Soul, or Creature or Nephesh. but notice it was not until AFTER he breathe into his nostrils the breath of Life that man became a LIVING SOUL, so before that what was Adam a DEAD peace of formed dust he was not alive or living at all until GOD breathe into his nostrils the breath of life.
So why does anyone try to make it out to be more then this simple scripture explains?
Again a Man is a Complete Person who is composed of a Flesh Body with the breath of life (IN) him and that constitutes a (Living Soul), After a man becomes a living Soul he begins to acquire other Spiritual intellects into his mind , these spirit intellects can be altered changed or removed or by GOD or by education , increased and even decreased.
To me there is nothing complicated about any of this. You are no longer a living Soul when you die you are a dead soul and you will stay dead until God decides to reconstruct your body and add spirit back into it, if he doesn't you are gone for ever. Destroyed for ever in a Perished state. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
geneCode Sample Gen 1:24 …> And God said, Let the earth bring forth the LIVING CREATURE (please notice the word (Creature) is (Nephesh) the same word we translate as (Soul)…..> after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after their his kind: and it was so. the scriptures says that God first FORMED them.
Quote Gen 1:26…..> And God said. Let (US) make man in our IMAGE, after our likeness; and let hem have dominion………>
are you by this verse try to say that God and all present are also made out and formed from the dust before becoming a living soul what was Adam
it took one action in addition of the FORMED ADAM and it was ; he breathe into his nostrils and only then Adam becomes a LIVING SOUL ,so it is by that very action of God that Adam came to live,or in motion ,because a few minutes before the action of God what was Adam
dead no
he was not in motion,so it is possible to be a soul and be without motion abilities,
Pierre
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