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Quote (Baker @ Mar. 24 2011,08:28) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 23 2011,13:43) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,17:47) Pierre! You are right, that when Jesus died He went back to where He was before. Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus body had to stay dead in order for the ransom be in effect.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The Spirit and Soul without the body can exist. Jesus is prove of that. It is not known what God did with His body. If He was resurrected with the body IMO the ransom would not be a ransom at all. Whether it is Spirit and Soul, I don't know of any Scripture that shows that to be true, except Genesis.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And this too is vague. Is the breath of life the Spirit in man? Or is it the Soul? Or is it both? Or ias it the body?
We have several Scriptures in Psalms mainly that shows that the Soul is the Spirit.
I also looked Soul up in our Ransom House Dictionary it says this
1 the principal life, feelings, thought, and action in man, regarded as a distinct entity separate of the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of man as distinct from the physical part.
2 the spiritual part regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come. arguing the immortality of the soul.There are 10 parts, to much for me. I however found number 1 most interesting….number 2 I don't know about happiness or misery right after death, since Scripture tells us all are sleepin g in the grave until Jesus return….
No matter what there is a Spirit and body, and Soul. There are to many Scriptures that show it to be the Soul being part of the Spirit in man…..
Peace and Love Irene
hi Irenehow are you ,I hope you and Georg are good.
yes the flesh is the box in the box is our soul that God made for us, but in our soul there is our operating system if you want and so it is us that do all works and decisions ,and it goes on the hard drive of our soul, and God give the power so that we can live,this is his spirit
wen we die it is our box and God remove his power from the box and now only our soul is remain, but it is asleep the only thing it needs is a box and power,both are in the hand of God
resurrection means new box and more power how long depend if we are in the first or second resurrection but at the end of it all we will have power supplied forever and a box that last forever.
this is the best explanation that i can give.
Pierre
Hi! Georg is fine, He is working again, part time. We are helping our only Daughter get through College. Once She graduates, which should be next month, I hope Georg will quit again. I gotten used to having Him Home all the time, He has spoiled me, doing all the cooking etc. How are you and your wife doing OK???
take care…
Peace and Love Irene
Hi
Irenethe wive is fine ,she keep me on my toes,and i love her for it,
we both love the lord so much he as been our problem solver for most of both our lives,we also keep helping our children even they are over the age but if they need it so we do.we only have one rule in the house ,that is ;if God accepted we also do .
I am glad that you both doing well ,God bless you both.
Pierre
Hi Gene,
OK. Change the word 'has' to 'is' since God is a perfected and completed being and the analogy fits fairly nicely to scripture.With Love and Respect,
WispringHey Wispring,
You don't have to urge Gene to change the words of scripture so they fit his understanding. He does that all the time.
Besides, the first of David's scriptures you listed, 1 Samuel 2:35, clearly says heart OF ME and soul OF ME. (LXX)
So it's definitely saying God HAS a soul, not that He IS one.
mike
Wispering……….I checked out all the scripture you posted, This is what i found, Please Notice it is the LORD being talked about there Not GOD, there lies the confusion, This may help, 'HEAR O ISREAL THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE (now notice) LORD”. When the LORD JEHOVAH is presented as a Being then he is a living Soul, A complete Being or Soul, But He (the LORD) is OUR GOD, Not GOD is our LORD. GOD is a descriptor word meaning POWERS (Elohim) The LORD is (the complete Being) or Soul, and that (Being) Is OUR GOD. Every place you listed indicated this. But the word GOD the SPIRIT or Spirit (intellect) is Not a SOUL but is part of the soul, because Spirit is what is IN a SOUL even in the LORD YHWH or JEHOVAH There is the Spirit of GOD IN HIM. Many think the LORD is the same thing, The LORD is a PERSON or BEING, His Spirit POWERS makes HIM a GOD (The Almighty one)> The combination of HIS Spirit and whatever his make up is makes him a living Soul. This is also true with Angels to . IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 23 2011,14:51) To All,
OK. I was wrong on that line of reason. It was a theory and wanted help running it up against scripture. Thanks!With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Understood as I do the same myself in order to learn.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 23 2011,22:24) Wispring………….Just look up the Hebrew word for Soul and the look at all the scriptures using that word and see what they say and you will find out the Soul is the (COMPLETE PERSON), which is a BODY and SPIRIT. Genesis, does not say a man became a LIVING SOUL,(NEPHESH) , by having a BODY and A SOUL and A SPIRIT as they assume, Scripture does not say that, it simply say GOD made a BODY and Breath the Breath of Life INTO IT and then MAN became a “LIVING” Soul. The GREEKS divided up the word Nephesh (Soul) into two Parts (Pusico) and (pneuma) because they believed in demons and people continue living after they die as many People here do. But Jesus Said In revelations “HE WAS DEAD” and (NOW) He was alive for ever more. He did not say he was still alive when he was in the grave as some kind of SOUL LIFE, that is PURE PAGAN GARBAGE TEACHINGS of MYSTERY RELIGIONS> Be careful of Some here they are experts at Twisting up scripture to meet there MYSTERY RELIGIOUS TEACHINGS> GO back and read what David posted and all the scripture he used and put them together , “THE SUM OF GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH”. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………..Gene
You are correct that is one definition of “soul” but you are incorrect in thinking it is the only definition of “soul”.At time the word “flesh” is also used to mean the complete person but in other places it is used only to be the material body of a person and in yet other places it means merely the skin of that body.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,12:12) Gene, So what does God have with a spirit in it that constitutes a soul?
mike
Mike……..God is a SPIRIT Not a SOUL, Spirit is what is (IN) a SOUL it is part of the Being . The being is “THE LORD” and has SPIRIT (INTELLECT) IN HIM , Just as you have Spirit (IN) YOU, and the Spirit is not the complete SOUL or Being without its substance (body) it is in> Even So With the LORD who is a GOD . The LORD has form and substance HIS spirit does not.MIKE If you are so sure GOD is a SOUL then produce ONE SCRIPTURE that SAY “GOD IS A SOUL” THEN> Jesus Said GOD was a SPIRIT not a SOUL, Because Spirits are not Souls it is what is (IN) a SOUL even the LORD who is a GOD, says He would POUR FORTH OF HIS SPIRIT UPON ALL FLESH. While GOD can be in all and though all, the LORD can not be in all and through all. HIS Spirit can. IMO
peace and love……………………………..gene
Gene,
I'm just confirming that God HAS a soul. And if God HAS a soul, but NOT a body, then your understanding that the body is part OF a soul is wrong.
mike
Hi Mike,
I meant the words in my post! LOL ..hehe…it was just and analogy and non-scripture based. More of a food for thought. catalyst type of post.
[/QUOTE]You don't have to urge Gene to change the words of scripture so they fit his understanding.With Love and Respect,
WispringHI everone,
lol! is the soul in the spirit? is the spirit in the soul?lol. Is this the allmighty,ifinitely wise,infinitely intelligent,infinitely powerful Jehova we are talking about here? I apologize. I was re-reading our posts and just fell into a fit a chuckles and laughs. Maybe, God(Jehova)(whatever)… God knows what I mean when I say “God”. No translation necessary. Good thing He and I are friends. Maybe he is saying to me through the Holy Spirit, “You guys are ridiculous!”. No offence to the seriousness of this discussion, just had to share this moment.
With Love and Respect,
WispringAll
we are or we have a soul ,this is were Gene is confused.
we have a soul but we are not a soul.right?
Pierre
Hi everyone,
I think I have my wits about me now. OK! We can all agree that God has a Soul and we have a Soul. We can all agree that God is spirit(Well, because Jesus told us so and God was speaking through him) and we have a spirit. Because the scriptures reveal this to us and because we were made in his image there would have to be at least some similarities. YES?With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 24 2011,16:08) All we are or we have a soul ,this is were Gene is confused.
we have a soul but we are not a soul.right?
Pierre
Terricca…………Wrong, We have a body with Spirit (IN) it and those two components combined make up a “LIVING SOUL”. Just as Genesis Say it does. Nothing complicated about it, a SOUL is a (COMPLETE BEING) , rather Foul , Fish, Animal or Man, or Angels. If you take any part of those two thing away you no longer have a LIVING SOUL. Just that simple. IMOpeace and love…………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 24 2011,23:37) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 24 2011,16:08) All we are or we have a soul ,this is were Gene is confused.
we have a soul but we are not a soul.right?
Pierre
Terricca…………Wrong, We have a body with Spirit (IN) it and those two components combined make up a “LIVING SOUL”. Just as Genesis Say it does. Nothing complicated about it, a SOUL is a (COMPLETE BEING) , rather Foul , Fish, Animal or Man, or Angels. If you take any part of those two thing away you no longer have a LIVING SOUL. Just that simple. IMOpeace and love…………………………gene
Genebut you are the one that says that ANGELS do not have a body ,
so they do not have or are a soul,
and scriptures says God has (have) a soul he is not a soul ,
this is so simple.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,15:52) Gene, I'm just confirming that God HAS a soul. And if God HAS a soul, but NOT a body, then your understanding that the body is part OF a soul is wrong.
mike
Mike……………No the LORD is a LIVING SOUL, GOD according to Jesus is a SPIRIT, There are Seven distinct Spirits (intellects) which make up ONE GOD and are controlled BY the LORD almighty and they issue our from HIM into all the earth. If these seven Spirits are in you then you are full of Spirit (IN) YOU. As He is in Jesus . The word ON may be a better word because it shows a influencing force. Remember when Lord Told Moses he would take of the Spirit that was on him and put them on the seventy elders so they could help Moses rule the Isrealites?> IMOpeace and love………………………………..gene
Terricca………….You are quoting Irene and Mike, not me i have alway said Angel have bodies of some kind , they may not be like ours but none the less they do have some kind of Bodies with Spirit (IN) it. They are living souls to. What i said was i do not believe GOD made Angels Spirit beings. But beings with Spirit (IN) them , just as we are Beings with Spirit (IN) US. IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 24 2011,11:08) HI everone, lol! is the soul in the spirit? is the spirit in the soul?lol. Is this the allmighty,ifinitely wise,infinitely intelligent,infinitely powerful Jehova we are talking about here? I apologize. I was re-reading our posts and just fell into a fit a chuckles and laughs. Maybe, God(Jehova)(whatever)… God knows what I mean when I say “God”. No translation necessary. Good thing He and I are friends. Maybe he is saying to me through the Holy Spirit, “You guys are ridiculous!”. No offence to the seriousness of this discussion, just had to share this moment.
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
I believe both the soul and spirit are spirit in cosistency which is why they are the part of mankind that gives life to the body.The spirit can be replaced which is why God instructs sinners to get a new spirit. The spirit is also a guide we walk according to as we are instructed to walk by the spirit. Neither of those commands were given in connection with the soul.
Both the spirit and soul make up the spirit part of man and are housed in the tent of the body. The body is made up of different parts as well.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 24 2011,10:26) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 23 2011,22:24) Wispring………….Just look up the Hebrew word for Soul and the look at all the scriptures using that word and see what they say and you will find out the Soul is the (COMPLETE PERSON), which is a BODY and SPIRIT. Genesis, does not say a man became a LIVING SOUL,(NEPHESH) , by having a BODY and A SOUL and A SPIRIT as they assume, Scripture does not say that, it simply say GOD made a BODY and Breath the Breath of Life INTO IT and then MAN became a “LIVING” Soul. The GREEKS divided up the word Nephesh (Soul) into two Parts (Pusico) and (pneuma) because they believed in demons and people continue living after they die as many People here do. But Jesus Said In revelations “HE WAS DEAD” and (NOW) He was alive for ever more. He did not say he was still alive when he was in the grave as some kind of SOUL LIFE, that is PURE PAGAN GARBAGE TEACHINGS of MYSTERY RELIGIONS> Be careful of Some here they are experts at Twisting up scripture to meet there MYSTERY RELIGIOUS TEACHINGS> GO back and read what David posted and all the scripture he used and put them together , “THE SUM OF GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH”. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………..Gene
You are correct that is one definition of “soul” but you are incorrect in thinking it is the only definition of “soul”.At time the word “flesh” is also used to mean the complete person but in other places it is used only to be the material body of a person and in yet other places it means merely the skin of that body.
Gene,You did not respond to this post and I was wonderting if you understand that I am stating that you are using one definition of the word “soul” exclusively while scripture uses more than one definition according to the context.
Kerwin,
Quote I believe both the soul and spirit are spirit in cosistency which is why they are the part of mankind that gives life to the body. The spirit can be replaced which is why God instructs sinners to get a new spirit. The spirit is also a guide we walk according to as we are instructed to walk by the spirit. Neither of those commands were given in connection with the soul.
Both the spirit and soul make up the spirit part of man and are housed in the tent of the body. The body is made up of different parts as well.
Yes, indeed, I will have to say that from an honest and truthful perspective you have a very accurate picture of that which we call soul is. Probably took some soul-searching right?
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
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