The soul

Participant

To Pierre,

Quote

now our soul ,what can it do ??well to me noting without the spirit ;the spirit is the active force but the soul is our table of contend and records files,this is the one that will go into judgement and so we should keep it holy and sanctify of what we put into it.

Pierre

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this understanding! :laugh:

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

March 19, 2011 at 2:41 am#239735

Participant

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 19 2011,02:26)

Hi Pierre,
So you are saying that God gave Adam oxygen into his nostrils like a newborn baby doesn't breath on it's own at first? First not breathing and then instead of a slap on the butt God blew oxygen into his nostrils is that right?If so, please read this:
ויפח=oiph (I can't find a meaning or definition for oiph on-line)
באפיו=nostrils
ויפח באפיו=breathed into his nostrils
נשמת=spirit,psyche,ghost,pneuma
חיים=(adj)alive,living,vivid,kicking,quick,animated,denizen,live: (nm.)life,living,existance:(n.)
נשמת חיים =breath of life
If this is not enough information please go back an look at the post I spent 3 hours on translating Hebrew to English. There is no mention of oxygen. Please read this:
In Judaic and Christian usage, pneuma is a common word for “spirit” in the Septuagint and Greek New Testament.(From wikipedia look-up of the word pneuma).

Pierre quote “so according to you God breathed Oxygen and the spirit at one moment ??so Adam was a dead soul just before??”

No Pierre not according to me. According to scripture. According to scripture God breathed the breath of life which is by definition animated spirit which is life. Life from God. Which then became soul. It's not me saying this Pierre it is the words in the scripture.
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Irene quote “I find this Scripture interesting. I believe since I studied this for awhile, that Soul is different then our Spirit or our body. Think about it. When I think, I do it with my brain, when I sleep i am not aware of anything, but my body is still functioning….I think the Soul is our self, how we think, how we eat, and how we function…..without our Soul or without our Spirit we just dust.”
Irene…I, Wispring, thinks this an insightful and accurate statement.
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Kerwin quote “It is not part of the essential self though I believe it is part of the self. My main support of that is that it took both a spiritual self and a bodilly self for Adam to be created a living soul.”
Right! This is precisely what I have been saying for a few posts now. That the breath of life that God breathed into Adam was the spiritual self.
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Look at this scripture:
Job 27:2-4 (King James Version)
2As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
3All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
4My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.
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Job has his physical/fleshy breathing going on and he us acknowledging the spirit of God in his nostrils most likely because he was very familiar with the stories in Genesis.
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I am just about done with figuring out what sould is based on scripture. I think I have a full and informed definition of it now. Thank you all for motivating me to learn this.
With Love and Respect
Wispring

wispring

Quote

Job 27:2-4 (King James Version)
2As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
3All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
4My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.

in my other bibles it shows the spirit first and the breath in the nostrils, what make more sense to me.

as for your comment in Greek it did not make sense ,i could not see what was your point.

so i still stand that the soul is us and a record of us,that the flesh is a tool by witch we perform and the spirit is the power God as given to all ,just like the 'dinar” to the servants ,so we have to show what we are doing with our lives that God as given us all.

Pierre

March 19, 2011 at 4:22 am#239746

kerwin

Participant

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 19 2011,04:39)

To Pierre,

Quote

Pierre

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this understanding! :laugh:

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

It sounds acceptable to my ears as well.

March 19, 2011 at 5:48 am#239750

Participant

Hi Pierre,

[Pierre]

Quote

in my other bibles it shows the spirit first and the breath in the nostrils, what make more sense to me.

Just presenting my resources here:
Job 27:2-4 (New International Version, ©2011)
Job 27:2-4 (New American Standard Bible)
Job 27:2-4 (The Message)
Job 27:2-4 (Amplified Bible)
Job 27:2-4 (New Living Translation)
Job 27:2-4 (King James Version)
Job 27:2-4 (English Standard Version)
Job 27:2-4 (New Century Version)
This is only a partial listing Pierre. There are 25 versions available to use at http://www.biblegateway.com
all of these are like the King James version in that they show breath first and spirit second.
By the way what versions are you refering to?
I do understand that the words wind and spirit are used interchangebly in the bible.
===================================================================

Quote

as for your comment in Greek it did not make sense ,i could not see what was your point.

That wasn't Greek that was Hebrew. I was trying to show you that by learning the meanings of the words in the Genesis scripture you come to the understanding that it was the spirit of life that was breathed into Adams nostrils.
If it was just air why didn't they just use the word air there like they do when they say “all the birds of the air”? do you see what I am trying to communcate here?
Anyway learning the true meanings of the words of this scripture truly isn't vital to eternal salvation. I was just sharing knowledge I had gained. If you don't want to learn it that is OK with me.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

March 19, 2011 at 7:45 am#239760

Participant

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 19 2011,23:48)

Hi Pierre,

[Pierre]

Quote

in my other bibles it shows the spirit first and the breath in the nostrils, what make more sense to me.

Quote

as for your comment in Greek it did not make sense ,i could not see what was your point.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

wispring

thank but here are some of my versions;
INV 1985
the Amplified Bible;Job 27:3 As long as my life is still whole within me, and the breath of God is [yet] in my nostrils,
Job 27:4 My lips shall not speak untruth, nor shall my tongue utter deceit.
New American Bible update
Nouvelle Edition de Geneve 1974.

so it seems the translations varies ??

Pierre

March 19, 2011 at 12:30 pm#239778

Participant

To All……….why can't we simply get a clear and sound understanding about something as simple as the word Soul? It is clearly speed out in scripture as a COMPLETE BEING , His Body AND Spiirt. Take all the four hundred or so places it is mentioned and put it all together and you get a complete Person is a Living Soul if he is alive and if he is dead he is a dead Soul. Why try to complicate it and make some MYSTERY out of it.I listed all the Old Testament Scriptures concerning the Word Soul and no one seem to be able to simply put it all together. That to me shows the depth of confusion here if we can't understand the simple things who are we expected to understand the complex thing?

Come on can't we even reach a simple conclusion about what a soul (IS)> Why does some form of MYSTERY have to Surround it where some think a Sould is IMortal and is still alive when a person is dead, I tell you when you die “YOUR THOUGHTS PARISH”
You simply no longer exist forever until a resurrection takes place Just as Jesus and those in the valley of dry bones in Ezekiel shows, it is all simple Just read what GOD said there and you have your answer, or look and listen to what Jesus said about Himself after His resurrection, it is all clear no need for confusion. Why add all kinds of speculations into it. IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

March 19, 2011 at 2:07 pm#239789

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 19 2011,06:30)

To All……….why can't we simply get a clear and sound understanding about something as simple as the word Soul? It is clearly speed out in scripture as a COMPLETE BEING , His Body AND Spiirt.

Hi Gene,

It is also “clearly spelled out in scripture” as being separate from the body. By none other than Jesus himself.

mike

March 19, 2011 at 5:59 pm#239801

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 20 2011,01:07)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 19 2011,06:30)

To All……….why can't we simply get a clear and sound understanding about something as simple as the word Soul? It is clearly spelled out in scripture as a COMPLETE BEING , His Body AND Spiirt.

Hi Gene,

It is also “clearly spelled out in scripture” as being separate from the body. By none other than Jesus himself.

mike

Mike……….So if it according to You “is (ALSO) separate from the body then which is it, i have offered over 40 scriptures that show it is the complete being , you offer ONE that is in question as to interpretation and is not clear spelled out. So who are we to believe you and your rendition of what Soul is or the overall bibles presentation of What a Soul is. Again you focus on only one scripture to try to draw a conclusion as many here do. IMO

Mike show us were Jesus said it clearly that the Body and Soul were separate. I would like to see that. And don't try to use were Jesus said fear him who can destory Body and Soul in the Grave thing because i Know GOD can destory both body and soul in a grave by not raising it up again from the grave as he could have Jesus also by not raising hims from the grave also. There is no life without a Body with Spirit (IN) it period, no scripture say we are still alive when we die. If there is please show it and what are we doing in the neither world life as you believe. Show Scripture that tells what we are doing while we still are alive after we die.

gene

March 19, 2011 at 6:31 pm#239806

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 19 2011,11:59)

Mike……….So if it according to You “is (ALSO) separate from the body then which is it, i have offered over 40 scriptures that show it is the complete being ,

NO, you have offered 40 scriptures that YOU THINK teach the soul as the “complete being”, including the body. You have offered NO scripture in which that claim is actually clearly stated. And the very first one David listed speaks of a soul DEPARTING from the body of a dead woman. Kerwin has pointed out another where Samuel prays for a boy's soul to return to his body.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 19 2011,11:59)

you offer ONE that is in question as to interpretation and is not clear spelled out.

Matthew 10:28 is not “in question as to interpretation”, and it IS “clearly spelled out”. So is 1 Thess 5:23.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 19 2011,11:59)

Mike show us were Jesus said it clearly that the Body and Soul were separate. I would like to see that.

Gene, you are quite daft. It doesn't really matter how many times I show it to you – if a scripture doesn't align with your own flawed understanding, then you don't accept the words in that scripture. That is your MO. You would rather add your own words into scripture than to admit your own understanding is flawed. But here it is again anyway:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

1. Gene, does Jesus specifically and clearly tell us to not be afraid of those who CAN KILL THE BODY BUT CANNOT KILL THE SOUL? YES or NO?

2. Gene, does Jesus tell us to fear the One who can kill BOTH body and soul? YES or NO?

There is no “question of interpretation” in this clear teaching, Gene. The “question” lies in your ability to accept this teaching. You have tried to distinguish between the Greek words used: “apokteino” and “apollumi”. But both words can be used for both “kill” and “destroy”, so your point goes nowhere.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 19 2011,11:59)

There is no life without a Body with Spirit (IN) it period, no scripture say we are still alive when we die.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

Revelation 20:4
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.

John was able to see the SOULS of people who had been killed. And these souls TALKED to God.

mike

March 20, 2011 at 4:21 am#239849

Participant

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 19 2011,23:48)

Hi Pierre,

[Pierre]

Quote

in my other bibles it shows the spirit first and the breath in the nostrils, what make more sense to me.

Quote

as for your comment in Greek it did not make sense ,i could not see what was your point.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

wispring

Sorry my mistake ,i have no idea why i have written Greek,I know the difference ,

but the comment stay s good.

Pierre

March 20, 2011 at 4:37 am#239851

Participant

Gene

Mt 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Quote

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 19 2011,11:59)

There is no life without a Body with Spirit (IN) it period, no scripture say we are still alive when we die.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
Jas 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
1Jn 3:8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
Jude 1:10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

we will be totally dead only when God as judged us,not before,but our works are stop when our body is gone,when we die thats the time God can make the addition of our works and see for its value.

Pierre

March 21, 2011 at 1:59 pm#239942

Participant

Terricca………..So in you theology Jesus was a Liar, because He (REALLY) was not dead right, even though He said He WAS DEAD. So your interruption of DEAD , does not mean DEAD it seems. But still alive in some kind of life shift. And where scripture say a Soul that sins it shall Parish you say no it can't Parish BECAUSE IT is still alive even thought the Body is dead. You who have sinned are not going to really die right? Can't you see how your false belief that a Soul still lives after death has perverted you beliefs.

The part you are posting about Where Jesus said GOD is Not the God of the Dead but of the living is true because the DEAD KNOW NOTHING FOR IN THE DAY THEY DIE THEIR THOUGHT PARISH> So how could GOD be there GOD, if they are dead they no longer think.

WE only continue to exist is the POWER and WILL and MIND of GOD after we die because we have COMPLETELY PERISHED after death, I tell you in all truth you are not alive after you die in any form, a RESURRECTION of a BODY with SPIRIT is absolutely (NECESSARY) After we Die. As scripture clearly proves and shows, Jesus had to be resurected in a Physical body as he said he said he was not resurected as some kind of Spirit being , because Spirits have not Bodies as Jesus said.

Simply put Pierre, A SOUL (IS) A BODY + SPIRIT (IN IT). THE COMPLETE BEING IS A COMPLETE AND LIVING SOUL. When you die you soul corrupts in the grave as Jesus said, a man can kill your soul but he can not (DESTROY) IT, because only GOD can by simply leaving you in the Grave and that is His call for all of Us. Remember is say the (DEAD) were Judged out of what was written in the books. The DEAD are then Brought up to meet their Judgements and some will enter into FIRE (INTENSE JUDGMENTS) for purification and cleansing and others unto everlasting life, but those who have believed in Jesus Christ have passed from Judgment unto life as Jesus said. Their Judgment is NOW, “for Judgment begins with the house of GOD”, and again “concerning this (FIERY TRIAL) which has (TRIED) you as if some strange thing has happened unto you”>

Pierre, you need to dump all those false teaching you have bought into Brother and come out of them. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

March 21, 2011 at 4:49 pm#239949

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 22 2011,07:59)

Terricca………..So in you theology Jesus was a Liar, because He (REALLY) was not dead right, even though He said He WAS DEAD. So your interruption of DEAD , doe not mean DEAD it seems. But still alive in some kind of life shift. And where scripture say a Soul that sins it shall Parish you say not it can't Parish BECAUSE IT is still alive even thought the Body is dead. You who have sinned are not going to really die right? Can't you see how your false belief that a Soul still lives after death has perverted you beliefs.

WE only continue to exist is the POWER WILL and MIND of GOD after we die because we have COMPLETELY PERISHED after death, I tell you in all truth you are not alive after you die in any form, a RESURRECTION of a BODY with SPIRIT is absolutely (NECESSARY) After we Die. As scripture clearly proves and shows, Jesus had to be resurected in a Physical body as he said he had he was not resurected as some kind of Spirit being , because Spirits have not Bodies as Jesus said.

Simply put Pierre, A SOUL (IS) A BODY + SPIRIT (IN IT). THE COMPLETE BEING IS A COMPLETE AND LIVING SOUL. When you die you soul corrupts in the grave as Jesus said, a man can kill your soul but he can not (DESTROY) it because only GOD can by simply leaving you in the Grave and that is His call for all of Us. Remember is say the (DEAD) were Judged out of what was written in the books. The DEAD are then Brought up to meet their Judgements and some will enter into FIRE (INTENSE JUDGMENTS) for purification and cleansing and others unto everlasting life, but those who have believed in Jesus Christ have passed from Judgment unto life as Jesus said. Their Judgment is NOW, for Judgment begins with the house of GOD, and again “concerning this (FIERY TRIAL) which has (TRIED) you as if some strange thing has happened unto you”>

Pierre, you need to dump all those false teaching you have bought into Brother and come out of them. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

Gene

do not blame me for miss understanding what dead is and means.

Jn 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

to whom did he give up his spirit ??
as a man Jesus lost the power to act this was accomplish by the action of put him the body to dead by men,
but the spirit /soul was clean and went to his God.

Jn 18:37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

Jn 17:10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you.

Jesus could not go to is father without accomplishing all things including to die.

in the flesh ,does not mean he as to die in the spirit or soul because that would mean he is rejected by God ,because only God can kill the spirit ,

I hope i was clear in my explanation.

Pierre

March 22, 2011 at 12:44 am#239982

Participant

Gene

more here;

Jn 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jn 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me

this is all done with his spirit not his flesh and blood (body) it is the body that Christ gives up for us;

Jn 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
Jn 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Jn 9:39 Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

Jn 6:50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.
Jn 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

this will help?

Pierre

March 22, 2011 at 5:15 am#240014

kerwin

Participant

Wisping,

I failed to find the old post I was planning on bumbing so here is a new one.

This passage from scripture shows the flaw in your conclusion that the soul is the whole being.

1 King 17:21(KJV)

21And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.

You are confused by word usage. Humans are called “flesh” in the account of the Great Deluge but that does not mean that the whole being is “flesh”.

Humans also have “flesh” which is part of their “flesh” since one use of “flesh” is a synomyn for “skin” while the other is a “synomyn” of body.

The same with is true with spirit. “Spirit” is a part of the “Spirit” division of man. Soul is also a part of the “Spirit” division of man though it is not the “Spirit”.

The soul is the essential human being and once placed in a body the whole becomes a living soul. A soul without a spirit is like a boat without a rudder. The spirit can be replaced but soul cannot be.

March 22, 2011 at 5:36 am#240015

Participant

gene

here is one more scripture;1Th 4:14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

it says;fallen asleep
also remember Christ was never judged ,so he did not have to die ,he never sin and came to fulfill the law ,and the law says the one who fulfill the law will live by it and so never die.

Pierre

March 22, 2011 at 5:47 am#240016

Participant

Terricca………..You are misquoting what Jesus said to Pilot, Pilot ask a question “are you a king” and Jesus replied (YOU) Say i am , but Jesus said TO (THIS) END, I was born and for THIS Cause came I into the world THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH,.

Another word Pierre in simple English Jesus said Pilot was saying that. but he was not here as a King or his servants would fight for him, but had came to bear witness to the truth.

A king is a king when he is sitting on his throne , which Jesus has recieve and will return as a King bringing the kingdom of GOD on the Earth with His Saints at his coming. Then he will be a KING with a kingdom.

Can't you see how you are reading into scripture what is not there?

Pierre where did i ever say you can destory the Spirit , the spirit can never be destroyed it simply goes back to who gave it in the first place GOD> But a Soul can be destoryed by separation of BODY and SPIRIT (INTELLECT)> It is simple why can't you get it. When a Man dies his thought PARISH GET IT HE NO LONGER EXISTS. If YOU could NO longer think you would be gone for ever. There has to be a resurrection in order for us to every live again when we die.

What part of DIE or DEAD you don't understand , Do you think Jesus was kidding when he said He WAS DEAD and NOW alive for evermore, do you think he was still alive when he said he was dead? Think about it Man (IF) Jesus was not raised from the Grave He would still be dead it is simple just put it together, and come out of MYSTERY RELIGIOUS Teachings. Did not Paul Say if Christ be not (RISEN) then you faith is in vain. Think about it. If there is no Resurrection from the state of the dead then there is no hope at all. IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

March 22, 2011 at 6:20 am#240017

Participant

Hi Kerwin,

Quote

This passage from scripture shows the flaw in your conclusion that the soul is the whole being.

I did not say that Kerwin. I said:

Quote

Hi everyone,
OK. Try this line of reason on for size.
1.) The Body is a thing
2.) The Spirit is a thing
3.) The Living Soul is a definition or description of what occurs when thing #1 and #2 are combined by Gods doing.

And it you know what? the line of reason works for the scripture you posted also.

Quote

1 King 17:21(KJV)

21And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.

It is indeed “Gods' doing”.

March 22, 2011 at 6:42 am#240018

Participant

Gene,
I think that Pierre is talking about the first and second death here…food for thought.
On another note I am seriously considering that a Living Soul to mean a description,definition.Perhaps, even, of a state of being
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Pierre,
I truly believe I have show THAT which God blew in Adam's nostils is indeed the Spirit of Life. The quote you posted from the book of Job reaffirms this conclusion.

Quote

INV 1985
the Amplified Bible;Job 27:3 As long as my life is still whole within me, and the breath of God is [yet] in my nostrils,
Job 27:4 My lips shall not speak untruth, nor shall my tongue utter deceit.

What I mean is “breath of God” is translated to mean “Living Spirit”

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

March 22, 2011 at 6:46 am#240019