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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2011,20:20) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 07 2011,19:46) is it the spirit that God gives to the soul that bring it live ?if yes then it only can die wen God destroy it ,NO?
Pierre,Did you know that archaeologists have found 5000 year old honey in tombs in Egypt? They say it is as good to eat today as it was 5000 years ago. Apparently honey doesn't decay like everything else.
Picture our souls as that honey entombed for 5000 years. The spirit went back to God, so we have no power to think or act. Our bodies have long since decayed into nothing. But here are our souls, dormant, but just as “tasty” as when we died.
All we need is for God to resupply the power of His Spirit to us, and to give our souls another body in which to live. Of course it will be a body designed for wherever we live – a spiritual one if in heaven, an earthly one if on earth.
mike
MikeAn Ancient Medicine Rediscovered
Honey is one of the oldest medicines. Its use is recorded in Sumerian clay tablets estimated to be 4,000 years old, and in Egyptian papyri dated from 1900to 1250 B.C. It is also mentioned in the Veda, the sacred scriptures of Hinduism, thought to be about 5,000 years old, and in the Holy Qu'ran and the Talmud. Hippocrates (460-357 B.C.) used many of the Egyptian prescriptions. He found that honey “cleans sores and ulcers of the lips, heals carbuncles and running sores.” Celsus (circa 25 A.D.) used honey for many different purposes: as a laxative, as a cure for diarrhea and upset stomach, for coughs and throat maladies, to agglutinate wounds and for eye diseases.Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 08 2011,21:35) Kerwin yes, God is not the God of the dead but the living,Abraham was declared a live,
until God destroy s the soul ,the soul lives,all soul go to judgement and then ether retribution or live eternal
Pierre
I agree!Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2011,22:06) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 08 2011,21:35) Kerwin yes, God is not the God of the dead but the living,Abraham was declared a live,
until God destroy s the soul ,the soul lives,all soul go to judgement and then ether retribution or live eternal
Pierre
I agree!
Kerwin
“David,
A soul is housed in the tent of one's body. If a body has no soul then the body does not have the breath of life.”–Kerwin.
But looking at Adam,
God made a body, [no soul inside it]
breathed into it the breath of life (spirit, not soul)
he “became” a soul. [not, he had a soul added to him]Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,13:20) Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,00:27) Quote You are correct that Jesus wouldn't contradict other scriptures. And you keep saying that Matthew 10:28 is the ONLY one, but that's not accurate. What about Thessalonians? –Mike.
Not exactly sure why you said this in this thread, but I had believed I made a careful point NOT to say that Matthew 10:28 was the ONLY scripture. If you go back and check, you should see this. (I've made that mistake before. I'm pretty sure I didn't make it this time.)
Hi David,From page 16:
Quote Hi Mike. The truthful answer is, not greatly. Matthew 10:28 is literally the one scripture that doesn't fit in with our definition of “soul.” From page 18:
Quote That's why that one and only one verse, the meaning has to be understood as “life prospects” or “future life” rather than simply as “life” as it is so often used Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but 1 Thessalonians 5:23 also clearly mentions the soul as separate from the body. And it is to that which I refer when I ask why “only one”?
mike
Hi Mike.Sorry, you are right. I was confused when I read this. I think it was probably 3:00 in the morning and I was thinking I was referring to Matthew 28:19, not Matthew 10:28.
(Flip flopping from thread to thread confused me. Sorry.)
I do realize there is one more scripture that mentiones the father, son and holy spirit together. So, I won't make that mistake again.
As for 1 thess, it's nothing like Matthew 10:28. In Mat 10:28, we do have to stretch the meaning outside of what it means the other 900 times. In 1 thess, we don't at all. Please look at the 2 general means of “soul” that I repeatedly give you. You seem to always focus on the wrong one.
Again, sorry for the mix up.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,13:59) Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,00:34) It came about as her soul [life] was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin. (Gen 35:18)
This scripture is not one I would pick to explain this, but it is simply saying her soul (life) was leaving her. Or, in other words, she was dying.
David,You're not seeing it. WHO was the life leaving? You can't say her soul is leaving HER, for that “HER”, according to you, IS her soul. Can SHE leave HERSELF?
If the “life” LEFT HER, then what's left? A dead body? Where did that “life” go? If that “life” could LEAVE her body, then that “life” was not a part of that body, but a separate thing all along, right?
Do you see it now?
mike
I don't remember saying or thinking that her life was leaving her.
Her life was going away, departing.And yes, the Bible refers to dead souls. Her soul [life] was going away. She became a dead soul [person].
I know that because the word soul is used in 2 basic ways, it is confusing.
A while back, I began the long task of creating a file of each instance where “soul” is found in the Bible. I made it to Job and gave up. I think I should post those here, and break them up in to the various ways that word is used. Of course, this would take 4 hours. maybe not tonight.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,14:01) Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,00:25) I am not really “insisting that the” fleshly body is part of Adam, or that my body is part of me. My body is me. I am me.
And yes, of course a person can live without their physical body if God resurrects them with a spirit body.
If they can live without it, then it is not “them”.mike
When Jesus had a physical body, was that “Jesus”?
When he had a spiritual body, was that “Jesus”?Which one was Jesus, if they weren't both Jesus?
It seems you are saying that if someone (such as Jesus) could live without his physical body, then it is not really him (Jesus.)
With God, all things are possible.
Of course, we are now entering philisophical paradox like thinking. If you get a boat and replace one piece at a time and eventually the boat is made up of completely separate pieces, is it the same boat?
Exact same could be said of the human body which undergoes the same thing. What is really you? While I enjoy the riddles, I'll stick to what the Bible actually says.
Quote (david @ Mar. 09 2011,11:23) “David, A soul is housed in the tent of one's body. If a body has no soul then the body does not have the breath of life.”–Kerwin.
But looking at Adam,
God made a body, [no soul inside it]
breathed into it the breath of life (spirit, not soul)
he “became” a soul. [not, he had a soul added to him]
David,Consider the fact that the definition of soul varies according to its usage in the English language.
A living soul is a living creature just like living flesh is also a living creature.
A soul that is alive is also the essential being. A soul that is dead does not exist which is why Jesus taught all men to repent or perish.
That is true for English, Greek, and Hebrew.
You can check and you will find that what I say is true. You should even be able to tell that without looking at Lexicons and dictionaries since the context of scripture makes it clear.
Spirit also has more than one meaning.
Spirit as the guide of the human soul is one definition while spiritual, aka immaterial, in another.
The soul like the spirit is immaterial in form and thus called spirit in reference to its form and not its function.
That can make it difficult to determine which is which.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 10 2011,01:00) Quote (david @ Mar. 09 2011,11:23) “David, A soul is housed in the tent of one's body. If a body has no soul then the body does not have the breath of life.”–Kerwin.
But looking at Adam,
God made a body, [no soul inside it]
breathed into it the breath of life (spirit, not soul)
he “became” a soul. [not, he had a soul added to him]
David,Consider the fact that the definition of soul varies according to its usage in the English language.
A living soul is a living creature just like living flesh is also a living creature.
A soul that is alive is also the essential being. A soul that is dead does not exist which is why Jesus taught all men to repent or perish.
That is true for English, Greek, and Hebrew.
You can check and you will find that what I say is true. You should even be able to tell that without looking at Lexicons and dictionaries since the context of scripture makes it clear.
Spirit also has more than one meaning.
Spirit as the guide of the human soul is one definition while spiritual, aka immaterial, in another.
The soul like the spirit is immaterial in form and thus called spirit in reference to its form and not its function.
That can make it difficult to determine which is which.
Davidthe soul or spirit does not need breathing of air,it is the flesh body that need it,but the soul need the body to fonction and the body without a soul is also useless because it can not move;
this could the one of the vanity s of live what Salomon talked about.
the body grow old and dies,but our spirit seems not doing that,
Ge 25:8 Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years;;;
Pierre
all
since Christ dead ,this applies;Rev 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”pay attention here the dead who die in the lord……
Pierre
Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,23:30) I do realize there is one more scripture that mentiones the father, son and holy spirit together. So, I won't make that mistake again.
You're overlapping threads and topics again!Did you mean to say there's more than one scripture that lists the soul separately from the body?
Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,23:35) I don't remember saying or thinking that her life was leaving her.
Her life was going away, departing.
WHERE did her soul depart FROM? Obviously her dead body didn't “depart”, right? Yet her soul DID.mike
Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,23:40)
It seems you are saying that if someone (such as Jesus) could live without his physical body, then it is not really him (Jesus.)
I'm saying the body does not the person make. The person is a soul, powered by spirit on loan from Jehovah, and encased in a body.Jesus is the same person whether he is encased in a flesh body, a spiritual one, or just a floating vapor or whatever in between those two bodies.
That's just how I understand it David. We don't have to agree, right?
I do clearly see the points you are making and I acknowledge the scriptural support for those points. But I think when “soul” is used for the entire person, body and all, is a euphemism. I think it's like me saying, “I thought it out”. My pinky finger is a part of “I” in this case, but my pinky finger wasn't involved in thinking anything out.
Or if I say “David loves his wife”. It is really your emotional inner being that is capable of love, not your kneecap, right? But we include that kneecap in the statement by saying “David” as a whole, even though we know the kneecap, in and of itself, is not capable of love.
If you disagree, that's okay with me, but you said:
Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,23:40)
While I enjoy the riddles, I'll stick to what the Bible actually says.
That's a little harsh don't you think? It IS the Bible that says man can kill the body, but only God decides what happens to the soul afterwards. And it IS the Bible that lists the body as something different than the soul in 1 Thess 5:23.So I'M also sticking to what the Bible says.
peace and love,
mikeTo all! The WIKIPEDIA the free Encyclopedia says this
A soul, in certain spiritual, philosophical, and psychological traditions, is the incorporeal essence of a person or living thing or object.[1] Many philosophical and spiritual systems teach that humans are souls; some attribute souls to all living things and even to inanimate objects (such as rivers); this belief is commonly called animism.[2] Some religions believe the soul exits the body and lives on after a person’s death, and some posit that Deities create souls.[citation needed] In some schools of thought, such as Dualism, the soul is deemed integral or essential to consciousness and personality. Soul sometimes functions as a synonym for spirit, mind or self.[3] Other common philosophical positions such as Physicalism and reductionism deem the soul to be an incoherent concept and reject the idea of an incorporeal entity or essence.
Then there is this
Where in a human body is the soul located?
In: Human Anatomy [Edit categories]
There is no location in the human body where you can find your soul, it has been said that it is in the heart but there is record of heart surgeons finding a soul inside one's heart when operating.You are your soul. If I get some nails and wood, using a hammer I can make a box. If someone asks where is the box located…well it's right there. It's the same with you. A body made out of flesh, bones, etc. PLUS breathe or oxygen makes a living soul.
Also I must bring up that the definition of soul is quite gray – it can sometimes mean your character or personality which is located in your brain so to speak because your brain controls what you do, what you say, how you say it, thus building your character and personality. But this isn't your soul, your soul is you.
When someone dies there is no energy that returns to the universe or that (but your breathe does return to the atmosphere) your soul is simply turned off so to speak. If I remove the nails from my box and have the nails and the wood seperate, where has the box gone…well it didn't go anywhere it just stopped being a box. Likewise with you, if you stop breathing or separate your breathe from your body your soul just turns off and if i put the oxygen back into your body your soul is turned on again, just like a light bulb. If i turn it off and you ask where did the light go… well it didn't go anywhere it just
turned off.I kind of agree with the last article except that the breath of live goes back to God who gave it…..
I also found this
Mental
Our Soul is the 'vehicle' for the Spirit. It expresses our moral values through our Ideals, Conscience, and Intuition
and thisBody
Physical
Our Physical Body is extremely dense, and houses our Spirit, Soul and Personality. Thus the light of our Spiritual Energy manifests on earth and shines from within. In our body the Brain represents our Spiritual level, the Heart our Soul, and the Navel our Personality.The navel our Personality? That I found funny, yet the brain or our mind is the Spirit is what Georg believes, and He never seen this article.
What is 'within', also reflects 'outwards' – hence our physical body is also surrounded by an energy field that emanates from each of the various 'vehicles' (or bodies), and is known as The Aura.
There is much more on the Internet. With some I don't agree, and some I do….Peace Irene
TO ALL………..Soul is simple the COMPLETE YOU YOUR COMPLETE BEING. COMPOSED OF FLESH AND SPIRIT BOTH THESE TWO ARE THE ONLY COMPONENTS OF A HUMAN SOUL> It Parishes when your BODY dies and will stay that way until the exact DNA is reconstructed and raised to life again by spirit being added back into it. When you die you are gone (FOREVER) unless GOD brings you back to life by a resurrection of your Body and giving back Spirit into it. MYSTERY RELIGION Has complicated this simple truth and made it into some under world activity going one , but when your are dead that is IT no matter what they say , we are TOTALLY in a state of none existent unless we remain in the heart and mind of GOD and He preforms a resurrection of our Body and Gives back Spirit into it we will no longer exist (forever). A resurrection is crucial for all Human being and that included Jesus also. IMO
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Mike
Paul mention the what God hold in is power;Heb 12:9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!
this is our soul that no men can kill.
Pierre
Terricca………Wrong, Spirits ARE Not Souls. Do you see the word Soul there? A soul is the (COMPLETE PERSON) NOT JUST the SPIRIT that is (IN) the Person.
peace and love…………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2011,08:47) Terricca………Wrong, Spirits ARE Not Souls. Do you see the word Soul there? A soul is the (COMPLETE PERSON) NOT JUST the SPIRIT that is (IN) the Person. peace and love…………………………gene
Geneyou are right in the sense that it takes a body and the spirit or soul to be able to function as a living being,
without a body the soul is out of any work,it is on an stand still.
the body without the soul is also on a stand still ,
it take s both to be a full operating soul alive and functioning
this is why the two are in conflic the flesh with the spirit soul.
the flesh needs and the spirit need for God knowledge, to live,
surrender to the flesh you die in sin,the soul or your spirit would be corrupt,
surrender to the spirit of Gods will ,and your flesh will suffer misery ,but everlasting live lays ahead.
the body is replaceable.not so with the soul.
this is our choices.
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 11 2011,08:47) Terricca………Wrong, Spirits ARE Not Souls. Do you see the word Soul there?
peace and love…………………………gene
Gene,I'm almost choking on the words, but I agree with you on this one.
But David and I were discussing Gen 35 where a soul was said to “DEPART” from a woman. We know her dead BODY didn't “depart” anywhere………..so what exactly departed, and from where and to where?
mike
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