The Son of God

[Sultan]

Quote (david @ Sep. 12 2006,02:34)

I'm just curious to know what a trinitarian would say with regard to the above post. Anyone?

I'm no longer a Trinitarian, but when dealing with the Bible I believe in being true to context. The subject is Wisdom, not Jesus. Therefore I stick to the context. Also the points you have raised change if the NWT is not used. My question is why use Prov. 8 only? There are other scriptures in Proverbs that still personify wisdom. This scripture is used based on tradition more than any contexual justifications. IMOP.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
To accept a trinity view of God you must deny Jesus is truly the Son of God. Do you agree?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Matt 22
” 31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

So here the Son of God quotes God.
So the Son is not the God he quotes.
He quotes God speaking by the prophets, by the Spirit of God.
So the Spirit of God is not separate from God.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
If you do not accept that Jesus, the Word, was the Son of God, who was sent into the world,
and say that the third person of a trinity God was the father of Jesus
then Jesus to you is not the Son of the Father God
in any way whatever.
God says Jesus is His Son.
Guess who is wrong.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
This is one of the most vital facts and yet the most denied as men trip over the stumbling stone.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Compare Heb 2 kjv
” 5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?

7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. “

With nasb
“5For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking.
6But one has testified somewhere, saying,
“WHAT IS MAN, THAT YOU REMEMBER HIM?
OR THE SON OF MAN, THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HIM?
7″YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS;
YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
8YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET “
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him But now we do
9But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.”

Why are the words “for a little while” in NASB?

They are not in Ps 8 quoted. [kjv]
” 3When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:”

Is it a manuscript variation?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Jn 1
“45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

46And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

49Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

50Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.”
My question.

Why did Nathanael say

“Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. “??

What led him to draw those conclusions?
Why did he not respond like the woman at the well and say that Jesus must be a prophet?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ
Listen to Jesus.
Jn 10
” 31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? “
Is Jesus saying, or has he ever said he actually is God?
Is Jesus actually agreeing with the Jews who wanted to stone him, that he was guilty of blasphemy and deserved to die, but cunningly quotes scriptures to confuse them and frustrate their plans?
Or is he telling the truth and saying he is actually not God but is the Son of God?
He is the truth so should we not believe him?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi WJ Listen to Jesus. Jn 10 ” 31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? “ Is Jesus saying, or has he ever said he actually is God? Is Jesus actually agreeing with the Jews who wanted to stone him, that he was guilty of blasphemy and deserved to die, but cunningly quotes scriptures to confuse them and frustrate their plans? Or is he telling the truth and saying he is actually not God but is the Son of God? He is the truth so should we not believe him?

NH

I think the Jews understood Jesus words far more than you NH.

They were there and they understood the Hebrew or Aramaic a lot better than you.

Jesus did not refute them saying he was making himself God.

But if what you say is true, Why dont you also believe the Father God when he calls his Son God? Or why dont you believe the many scriptures that declare him as God?

Do I have to paste them all again. Wouldnt do any good because you have set your heart against the truth.

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
So you would take their side against his?
You would believe then before him?
Search yourself please.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi w, So you would take their side against his? You would believe then before him? Search yourself please.

NH

Did you read the post.

But if what you say is true, Why dont you also believe the Father God when he calls his Son God? Or why dont you believe the many scriptures that declare him as God?

Do I have to paste them all again. Wouldnt do any good because you have set your heart against the truth.  

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi w, So you would take their side against his? You would believe then before him? Search yourself please.

NH

Besides show me in your passage where Jesus denied being God!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
God is ONE.
Jesus is not that God.
He is the son of that God.

Forsake rebellion against the Spirit.
Why kick against the goad?

[liljon]

Jesus is God otherwise thomas wouldnt have said so in John 20:28.

[david]

The context helps us to draw the right conclusion from this. Shortly before Jesus’ death, Thomas had heard Jesus’ prayer in which he addressed his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3, RS) After Jesus’ resurrection Jesus had sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he had said: “I am ascending . . . to my God and your God.” (John 20:17, RS) After recording what Thomas said when he actually saw and touched the resurrected Christ, the apostle John stated:: “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.”(John 20:31, RS) So, if anyone has concluded from Thomas’ exclamation that Jesus is himself “the only true God” or that Jesus is a Trinitarian “God the Son,” he needs to look again at what Jesus himself said (vs. 17) and at the conclusion that is clearly stated by the apostle John (vs. 31).

There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind. Such would be in harmony with Jesus’ own quotation from the Psalms in which powerful men, judges, were addressed as “gods.” (John 10:34, 35, RS; Ps. 82:1-6) Of course, Christ occupies a position far higher than such men. Because of the uniqueness of his position in relation to Jehovah, at John 1:18 (NW) Jesus is referred to as “the only-begotten god.” (See also Ro, By.) Isaiah 9:6 (RS) also prophetically describes Jesus as “Mighty God,” but not as the Almighty God.

[Cult Buster]

        JESUS our JEHOVAH

JEHOVAH isI AM                                  EXODUS 3:14      
JESUS isI AMJOHN 8:57& 58

JEHOVAH isFIRST & LASTISAIHA 44:6, 48:12
JESUS isFIRST & LASTREV 22:12,13,20  1:8  MICAH 5:2

JEHOVAH isROCKDEUT 32:4
JESUS isROCK1 COR 10:4

JEHOVAH isKINGISAIHA 33:22
JESUS isKINGREV 19:11-16

JEHOVAH isCREATORISAIHA 40:28
JESUS isCREATOREPH 3:9  JOHN 1:3  COL 1:16

JEHOVAH isSAVIOURISAIHA 33:22,  43:11,12
JESUS isSAVIOURACTS 4:12  MATH 1:21  LK 2:11

JEHOVAH isJUDGEISAIHA 33:22
JESUS isJUDGEJOHN 5:22

Jer 23:5-6  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Zec 7:11  But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.  

[NickHassan]

Hi CB,
Jesus is the Son of God.
As the vessel for God he revealed God to men.
He was not revealing himself but God dwelling in him.

[Cult Buster]

NH

Quote

Jesus is the Son of God. As the vessel for God he revealed God to men. He was not revealing himself but God dwelling in him.

Look again NH

JEHOVAH is I AM                                  EXODUS 3:14      
JESUS is I AM JOHN 8:57& 58

JEHOVAH is FIRST & LAST ISAIHA 44:6, 48:12
JESUS is FIRST & LAST REV 22:12,13,20  1:8  MICAH 5:2

JEHOVAH is ROCK DEUT 32:4
JESUS is ROCK 1 COR 10:4

JEHOVAH is KING ISAIHA 33:22
JESUS is KING REV 19:11-16

JEHOVAH is CREATOR ISAIHA 40:28
JESUS is CREATOR EPH 3:9  JOHN 1:3  COL 1:16

JEHOVAH is SAVIOUR ISAIHA 33:22,  43:11,12
JESUS is SAVIOUR ACTS 4:12  MATH 1:21  LK 2:11

JEHOVAH is JUDGE ISAIHA 33:22
JESUS is JUDGE JOHN 5:22

Jer 23:5-6  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Zec 7:11  But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.      

[NickHassan]

Hi CB,
WE have searched the scriptures and find your teachings are false.
Jesus is the Son of God.
Repent.

[Cult Buster]

Luk 4:2  (Jesus)  Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12  And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Who was being tempted here? Jesus;    The Lord thy God.

Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:

This proves beyond doubt that the Son of man (Jesus) is the LORD thy God.

Jer 23:5-6  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

[Author]

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