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Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 14 2010,19:16) 2. yalad DOES NOT EVER mean any of these alternate definitons of the Greek equivalent “gennao”: a. in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone
b. of God making Christ his son
c. of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work
MikeWrong again. Paul uses the Greek equivalent of the word “Yalad” which is “gennaō” here…
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus “I have begotten (gennaō) you” through the gospel. 1 Cor 4:15
Did Paul literally bring birth to the Corinthians?
And he also uses the word here…
I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, “whom I have begotten (gennaō)” in my bonds: Phm 1:10
Did he literally bring birth to Onesimus?
And you ignore the fact that Pss 2:6, 7 says…
“YET HAVE I SET MY KING UPON MY HOLY HILL OF ZION“. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten (yalad) thee.
Which is prophetic of Acts 13:33 – Heb 1:5 -5:5 and is speaking of Jesus after the resurrection.
And as far as puking out Ignatius own claims, it is you that pukes out his words when he said…
There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, BORN AND UNBORN, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord. 7:2
Its obvious that his words contradict what you say. And the Creed that Eusebius signed off on says…
“But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.”
But continue on with you unbiblical assumptions and accusations!
I think the Apostle Paul and Mr. Strong knew far more about the Greek equivalent of “Yalad” than you do!
WJ
Mike…………WJ is right on this begotten thing Brother, IMO. Begot is a process of Begetting, and Berth is the bringing forth of that which is begotten or better known as Manifestation of something. Jesus was (FOREORDAINED) but did not exist till he was begotten of the flesh and then later at the Jordan He was Begotten of God and then was Born into the kingdom of GOD later. The same process applies to Us we are begotten of the flesh and then born into a flesh existence and then later begotten of God and then born of God into his kingdom at the resurrection which is the culmination of our beget-el process. The exact same as Jesus was. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,16:34) Quote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,15:56) Quote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,15:37) Quote (Arnold @ July 17 2010,13:06) Welcome David! First I like to say that We have a Son named David, George David , but We go by David because my Husband's name is Georg also spelled without the e on the end since it is German…..
To God, I believe that the Old Testament has several Scriptures that tell us that God or Elohim is ONE GOD, ONE LORD. LORD always spelled in capital Letters…. When I describe God I think that He is the Almighty God and LORD while Jesus is the Mighty God and Lord…. There is a distinct difference there….
I yet have to figure out who exactly is the “IAm” at first I thought it is God Almighty, but I am not sure of that anymore…. Can you shed any light on that???…. Also I believe that Jesus preexisted His birth here on earth. There is a tread for that, so I will not go into that…. As a man He was begotten of the Holy Spirit and some will take that Scripture and say that it proves that He did not preexist.. What do you think?
?
Peace and love to you Irene
Thank you & Hello Irene,Thanks for the personal note. I think in the first days that I began you wrote and I responded to “Arnold”…haha and it is good to see you explain Georg because I thought that once you put something out incorrectly everyone continued. lol
A good site that I use for translations is blb.org and when you get to the verse click on the letter “C” and the Hebrew or Greek goes below the sentence.
One concept at a time. There are TWO words translated into English as “God” most frequently from Hebrew and they are El and Elohim…unfortunately Theos is used for the Greek which does NOT distinguish from the two… so, when Greek “scholars” try to compare words they are already at a loss because they don't differentiate the Hebrew words.
El = God (noun, masculine, singular)
Elohim = God (noun, masculine, plural*)* Elohim comprises of two parts: Root and suffix (ending).
Eloah (root) = god (noun, feminine, singular) (notice it is a feminine noun and should be addressed as goddess but isn't)“m” ending = suffix (masculine, plural) (notice that it is a plural but listed as singular)
Thus if you put the breakdown together properly you have a “goddess” + plural masculine ending OR
Definition: God (Elohim) = Supreme Being consisting of two essences, male and female, yet is ONE God.
Therefore from the construct of the word you can see the problem. How do you have a “singular” being with masculine and feminine elements? Next, how do you address a pronoun for Elohim? “He” eliminates the “She” and vice versa. “They” negate God being ONE. And as the Rabbi said, “God is neither male nor female”.
However, to understand usage in the Bible it is good to recognize that Elohim is ONE God with two essences, female and male.
The plural construct of God in the word Elohim (noun, masc & fem, plural) shows why the word God (El; noun, singular, masc) cannot be translated the same as Elohim because the context is lost. And God forbid if we say Gods in place of Elohim.
Anything using El or El + Adjective is probably referring to the male essence of Elohim.
Note-There are many other usages for the word Elohim and applies to myriads of other “beings/persons” however when I use Elohim I use capital letters to differentiate between them and the Supreme Being.
Hopefully, you can understand what I am saying.
Enough for now.
God Bless you Irene & Georg,
David
Hello Irene,Back to the drawing board.
Now we have a definition of Elohim: Supreme Being that is ONE with two essences, female and male.
Definition of ONE ('Echad) = oneness, unity
does not mean the number one.First used in Genesis 1:5 ….Evening and Morning, ONE Day. From the very beginning of the usage of this word we see that two elements are joined together to comprise one entity. Evening doesn't complete ONE Day until Morning is joined together.
Elohim is seen with male and female essences when “He” (Elohim) made MAN in God's image, male and female….Genesis 1:27.
Therefore from the word construction of Elohim and Gen 1:27 we can see that God has two essences male and female…whether we like it or not.
Continuing with the word ONE. Just as ONE Day is not complete without Evening AND Morning, ONE God is not complete without Male AND Female.
Most theologians want to put the Female essence of Elohim inside the Male essence which as you could see would lead to a faulty “Systematic Theology” and speculations. Or worse yet, they relegate the Female essence to a status of “IT” or “a” force of God (but then they don't know what “God” they are talking about, do they?). Others negate the Female essence's existence altogether with the stroke of their intellect and pens (typewriters).
As you can see from my premise: Elohim is ONE God with TWO essences, male and female (all the while remaining as ONE “entity” GOD/Elohim). Later on I will address the two individual essences.
In His Love,
David
Hello again Irene,Elohim – Supreme Being God; God Most High ( a single entity comprising of two essences, male and female)
YHVH (noun, masc) = Male essence of Elohim
Holy (adjective) Spirit (noun, feminine) = female essence of ElohimElohim is the combined entities/essences of: YHVH and Holy Spirit
Just as Morning is separate and has its own purpose from Evening in ONE Day, YHVH has His own purpose and mission than that of Holy Spirit in ONE God.
So, if you are at your drawing board place “Elohim” above a circle and divide the circle in half, labeling one side Male and the other side Female. Draw a line downward from Male and make another circle and place inside it “YHVH”. Do the same with Female and place “Holy Spirit” inside the circle. Therefore when you read the Bible look and see which entity is being referred to… Elohim, YHVH (El), or “Spirit”
If the word “El” (either alone or with an adjective) is being used it is for the Male essence's activities.
If the word Elohim is used it is for the combined “persons” of YHVH and Holy Spirit.
If “Spirit of….” or “God's Spirit” or “YHVH's Spirit” is used it is obviously referring to the Holy Spirit's activities.
When you realize that each word denotes a separate function of a given aspect of God you will understand how to use and apply the information given. Also, you won't be confused when someone wants to say that Jesus is the Holy Spirit or YHVH is the Holy Spirit, etc because you will know what position each holds and whether it is being addressed individually (YHVH, HS) or combined (Elohim).
And if you see in your Bible LORD God, who do you think they are referring to? YHVH Elohim (male essence of Elo
him specifically) NO?David
Hello Irene,This post will bring opposition because of what you said and how I'll reply regarding YHVH.
The Bible does translate YHVH as LORD (all caps). So I will, too.
Summarizing from my other posts:
Elohim = God “Most High” ; Supreme Being with TWO essences, male and female, yet ONE (singular) in identity
YHVH = LORD (noun, masc, sing)
Holy Spirit = noun, fem, singIF LORD is correct in its usage THEN it is a TITLE. In Spanish they translate LORD as Señor and it is easy to see that it is NOT a name. They call me Señor David (Mr. David)
When you see “Almighty God” it is usually 'El (God) + adjective (Almighty) and would refer to YHVH.
Elohim is ONE God is a perfect example of the definition of Elohim. “ONE” depicting an entity being united with another to comprise the noun that follows. “ONE” Elohim is Male and Female by definition…or YHVH & Holy Spirit.
There are TWO “lords”: YHVH = LORD and Adonai = Lord
YHVH is specifically referring to the Male essence of Elohim while Adonai is referencing a Title of a lesser being (than God). Jewish oral tradition inserted Adonai verbally in place of the tetra gammon YHVH. Jesus is said to be called by Adonai.“I AM” comes from the text in Exodus 3:14 and 3 words specifically Hayah 'asher Hayah. Hayah is a verb meaning “to exist” or “to be” and therefore people here want to debate or change what is the common usage of “I AM” to “I will be what I will be” or words to that effect. For me, I like ” I EXIST” to describe God (Elohim). Hayah = HYH and is supposedly where YHVH derives His name from.
IF Elohim is the name for God (in combination form) and YHVH is “God's” name as the Male essence then what is YHVH Elohim? God God? Makes more sense as LORD God, no?
Peace of Jesus be with you,
David
Hi,
I really do not see the teaching in scriptures that the Holy Spirit is the 'Mother' of Jesus. When I read these scriptures below, if the Holy Spirit was equally the Mother of the Son of God as the Father is the Father of the Son of God, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned in most if not all of these along with the Father?Matt 24:36
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
NASUJohn 5:23
23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
NASUJohn 5:26
26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
NASUJohn 6:40
40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
NASUJohn 6:46
46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
NASU1 John 2:23-24
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
NASU2 John 3
3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
NASU2 John 9
9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
NASUJust thought I would add my two cents here.
Oh, and I don't want to forget this one. If the Holy Spirit were the Mother, don't ya think that 'she' would know the 'Father' and the 'Son?'
Matthew 11:27 NASB
27″All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Does it take the Son to introduce His Mother to His Father? (and no smart aleck comments here please)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2010,16:31) Hi CBF,
Male/female exist as a result of DIVISION.
God is one.
Hi Nick,You are right. God is one.
But within the ONE God there are two “elements/essences” of Elohim identified as male and female that are divided into their own separate identities, but still comprise the ONE God (Elohim).
Just as ONE ('Echad) “Day” is divided into Evening and Morning elements, ONE “God” Elohim is divided into Female and Male essences (Gen 1:27).
ONE “Day” is not complete without Evening and Morning, and Evening and Morning are divided…no?
ONE “God” is not complete without Female and Male. And hopefully you'll see by this that the Holy Spirit is not YHVH and YHVH is not the Holy Spirit; nor is the Holy Spirit “part of” YHVH (she is completedly divided and separated from YHVH and is the other “half” of Elohim).
Maybe you can help me out on giving examples of how to explain Elohim who is ONE God with two essences, Male and Female. It's tough because we don't have a personal pronoun that would fit such an “entity”. He/She/They are all incorrect.
I placed “essences” for the substance that exists within Elohim and because we are human created in the image of God, male and female, I use the pronouns “He” and “She” when addressing the Male and Female essences of Elohim.
Here are the first four times that the word ONE ('Echad) appear in the Bible:
ONE DAY Gen 1:5 (EVENING, MORNING)
ONE RIB Gen 2:21 (LEFT, RIGHT)
ONE FLESH 2:24 (HUSBAND WIFE)
ONE KNOWLEDGE 3:22 (knowing good and evil)And for other readers there is the other word commonly used for God “El” which denotes a masculine noun, singular versus Elohim that is a noun that is masc AND feminine and “plural” but is correctly listed as singular because of what you said, Nick, God is one.
Yours in Christ,
David
Hi DavidFun:
Quote Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.Elohim because He is the God of gods and the LORD of Lords.
There is only ONE God, but we who are his children are partakers of His Divine nature.
Quote Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
'Quote 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Quote 2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Lightenup @ July 15 2010,19:02) Quote (davidbfun @ July 14 2010,18:40) Hi Kathi, Jesus was face to face with his physical mother Mary and what did he call her but “Woman” (John 2.4) so does that mean that we can not call Mary his mother?
In another instance he didn't recognize her presence but said, “Who is my mother…” (Mt 12.46+; Mk 3)
In Lu 2:48-9 Look at his response to her direct questioning of her being anxious and worrying: And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father's house?”
He did not call God his Father YHVH either so what does this mean? Everybody else on this site says this is the name of God so why didn't he use it (rhetorical).
I still call the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, but I recognize that SHE is probably the one who bore Jesus, NOT God the Father. And if she bore Jesus what would you call her? Mother!
David
David,
Are you really contending that Mary was not the 'mother' of Jesus but instead the 'woman' of Jesus. Truly I do not think that you doubt that Mary, who gave birth to Jesus was as someone other than His mother. Why do you act like Jesus didn't ever call her mother?Are you insinuating that a goddess came upon Mary to conceive. I think you are trying too hard here. I'm done with this goddess holy spirit essence that you can not find in the scriptures. The Holy Spirit is 'of' the Father not with the Father.
Maybe I will discuss another topic with you but I don't buy your take on this one…sorry.
Hi Kathi,No, I am NOT contending that Mary was not the mother of Jesus, she was. All I was trying to point out is how he addressed her. In our society today it would be very chauvanistic and belittling the treatment he gave her. Look at how odd Jesus' response is in Luke.
Luke 11:27-28 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”
I was trying to make a comparison of how anonymous Mary was to the anonymity of The Holy Spirit…neither one receiving glory or praise.
What the angel reported to Mary was that which is about to come upon you is of the Holy Spirit (which is a feminine noun). So….
Is the Holy Spirit, God? Yes or No!
I am sorry that this topic angers you. I'll try not to bring it up again to you unless you ask.
I'm trying to be in unity with the Holy Spirit and my brethren at this site. But also I am trying to share the truth as I know it….and in writing it is a bit tougher than in person using words.
David
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2010,00:04) Ps, we are stomping on Kathi's thread about when Jesus was begotten here. Sorry Kathi……..carry on – as Karmarie would say. 
mike
Hi Mike and Kathi,One thing I did learn from all of this was the concept of beget. I thought begetting and being born was the same thing however from what I understand now it appears that the word beget refers to the male aspect of the procreation process (fathering, siring). Therefore no one knows when the son of God was begotten…a trick thread.
The better question would have been was “When was the son of God born?” or “When was the son of Man born?” Then something more definitive could be discussed and verified by the Bible.
David
Quote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,10:18) IF Elohim is the name for God (in combination form) and YHVH is “God's” name as the Male essence then what is YHVH Elohim? God God? Makes more sense as LORD God, no? Peace of Jesus be with you,
David
Hi David,YHVH GOD is the most accurate English expression of [יהוה האלהים].
The AKJV bible also has: The LORD JEHOVAH! (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,04:40) And I know you are astute enough to distinguish the truth without arguing for the sake of arguing.
Hi David,You must not know me. I'm not even astute enough to know what the word astute means. And I sometimes love to argue just for the sake of arguing.
I'll hit you up on your thread about this subject when I find the time to research what you claim. But right now you are hi-jacking a thread about when the Son was begotten. Keep to the topic of the thread as best you can please.
peace and love,
mikeHi WJ,
Do you not even understand what I wrote? I KNOW gennao can mean those 3 things ALONG WITH a literal “begetting”. But yalad DOES NOT EVER MEAN ANY OF THOSE THREE ALTERNATE DEFINITIONS THAT GENNAO CAN MEAN.
AND YALAD IS THE WORD FROM PSALM 2 THAT PAUL QUOTES ABOUT THE BEGETTING OF JESUS. GET IT? So the begetting Paul talked of had to do with a real birth, not being converted to Christianity since the word he quotes is yalad – and yalad has nothing to do with anything but real births.
And I can't wait for you to stop playing games in our debate so I can beat you over the head with you own Ignatius quote. Are you blind to the fact it say “born from Mary AND from God”?
mike
Quote (davidbfun @ July 16 2010,20:29) Quote (Lightenup @ July 15 2010,19:02) Quote (davidbfun @ July 14 2010,18:40) Hi Kathi, Jesus was face to face with his physical mother Mary and what did he call her but “Woman” (John 2.4) so does that mean that we can not call Mary his mother?
In another instance he didn't recognize her presence but said, “Who is my mother…” (Mt 12.46+; Mk 3)
In Lu 2:48-9 Look at his response to her direct questioning of her being anxious and worrying: And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father's house?”
He did not call God his Father YHVH either so what does this mean? Everybody else on this site says this is the name of God so why didn't he use it (rhetorical).
I still call the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, but I recognize that SHE is probably the one who bore Jesus, NOT God the Father. And if she bore Jesus what would you call her? Mother!
David
David,
Are you really contending that Mary was not the 'mother' of Jesus but instead the 'woman' of Jesus. Truly I do not think that you doubt that Mary, who gave birth to Jesus was as someone other than His mother. Why do you act like Jesus didn't ever call her mother?Are you insinuating that a goddess came upon Mary to conceive. I think you are trying too hard here. I'm done with this goddess holy spirit essence that you can not find in the scriptures. The Holy Spirit is 'of' the Father not with the Father.
Maybe I will discuss another topic with you but I don't buy your take on this one…sorry.
Hi Kathi,No, I am NOT contending that Mary was not the mother of Jesus, she was. All I was trying to point out is how he addressed her. In our society today it would be very chauvanistic and belittling the treatment he gave her. Look at how odd Jesus' response is in Luke.
Luke 11:27-28 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”
I was trying to make a comparison of how anonymous Mary was to the anonymity of The Holy Spirit…neither one receiving glory or praise.
What the angel reported to Mary was that which is about to come upon you is of the Holy Spirit (which is a feminine noun). So….
Is the Holy Spirit, God? Yes or No!
I am sorry that this topic angers you. I'll try not to bring it up again to you unless you ask.
I'm trying to be in unity with the Holy Spirit and my brethren at this site. But also I am trying to share the truth as I know it….and in writing it is a bit tougher than in person using words.
David
Hi Davidbfun,
I'm sorry that I sounded angry, I just do not see the scriptural support for which your have shared in nearly every post that you have made and it concerns me that you are writing a book, I assume, about this theory. Maybe your book is of something else, idk.Regarding the anonymity of the Holy Spirit (which is a neuter noun in the Greek as you know), if the Holy Spirit is the spirit within the Father, then every time the Father is praised and glorified and worshiped, so is the spirit within Him. That is why the Spirit is not singled out as one of three in the many verses that I recently posted. The Spirit is as much a part of the Father as His very mind, as I understand it. It is unnecessary to say, for instance, The Father and His mind is on the throne. That is obvious. I think it is the same as the Spirit. The Spirit can be considered as the 'inner person' of the Father but not a seperate, equal person. Our inner person does not require a separate introduction when we introduce ourselves to someone. If we are acknowledged, then our inner person is also acknowledged. I do believe that our inner person is a masculine term in the Greek not that it should give support to a doctrine that the inner person has a particular gender. It seems to me that the inner person would take on the gender of the outer person.
If my aunt were laying in a casket at her funeral, it could be said of her that she was not there but with the Lord. If my uncle were laying in a casket at his funeral, it could be said of him that he was not there but with the Lord. Do you see my point?
The Father's 'inner person' has a very unique ability to remain within the Father and unite with the Son's and the believer's spirit to form one spirit.
You are right about being limited in how we can express ourselves through the written word when body language and tone of our voice adds much more fullness.
I would like it if you would address my two posts on the preceding page with all the verses that do not include the Holy Spirit.
Thanks!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2010,00:04) Ps, we are stomping on Kathi's thread about when Jesus was begotten here. Sorry Kathi……..carry on – as Karmarie would say. mike
Thanks Mike for trying to keep us on topic. Good moderator…very goodQuote (davidbfun @ July 16 2010,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2010,00:04) Ps, we are stomping on Kathi's thread about when Jesus was begotten here. Sorry Kathi……..carry on – as Karmarie would say. mike
Hi Mike and Kathi,One thing I did learn from all of this was the concept of beget. I thought begetting and being born was the same thing however from what I understand now it appears that the word beget refers to the male aspect of the procreation process (fathering, siring). Therefore no one knows when the son of God was begotten…a trick thread.
The better question would have been was “When was the son of God born?” or “When was the son of Man born?” Then something more definitive could be discussed and verified by the Bible.
David
David,
If the Son was credited with establishing the heavens as the work of His hands, and was involved in laying the foundation of the earth in the beginning it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the Son was begotten before the ages, before creation. The early Christian writers seemed to get this. Also, the appelation as the 'firstborn' lends itself to this understanding. To be a firstborn, as in first fruit, one has to be the first procreative strength of the father. So we have it stated that the Son was the only begotten Son of the Father, present at creation, and also the firstborn over all creation.BTW, the begotten, procreated God is not a created god…a created god would not have the same substance (nature) as the one who created him.
“In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2010,23:38) Hi WJ, Do you not even understand what I wrote? I KNOW gennao can mean those 3 things ALONG WITH a literal “begetting”. But yalad DOES NOT EVER MEAN ANY OF THOSE THREE ALTERNATE DEFINITIONS THAT GENNAO CAN MEAN.
AND YALAD IS THE WORD FROM PSALM 2 THAT PAUL QUOTES ABOUT THE BEGETTING OF JESUS. GET IT? So the begetting Paul talked of had to do with a real birth, not being converted to Christianity since the word he quotes is yalad – and yalad has nothing to do with anything but real births.
And I can't wait for you to stop playing games in our debate so I can beat you over the head with you own Ignatius quote. Are you blind to the fact it say “born from Mary AND from God”?
mike
MikeIf Paul meant a literal begetting then why did he use the same word for the other scriptures?
Pss 2:6, 7 is clearly speaking of Jesus after the resurection for it is quoted in three places in refering to Jesus after the resurrection.
You can put your head in the sand if you want.
As far as beating me over the head with Ignatius, his point has nothing to do with what you say, for no where does Ignatius or any Trinitarian believe that Jesus had a beginning before he came in the flesh.
I challenge you to find where Ignatius says anywhere that Jesus was “Born from an aesuxual God” as a little god before the ages.
WJ
Hi all,
Here is what Calvin wrote about the Col 1 'firstborn':Quote The first-born of every creature. The reason of this appellation is immediately added — For in him all things are created, as he is, three verses afterwards, called the first-begotten from the dead, because by him we all rise again. Hence, he is not called the first-born, simply on the ground of his having preceded all creatures in point of time, but because he was begotten by the Father, that they might be created by him, and that he might be, as it were, the substance or foundation of all things. It was then a foolish part that the Arians acted, who argued from this that he was, consequently, a creature. For what is here treated of is, not what he is in himself, but what he accomplishes in others.
found here: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom42.v.ii.iii.htmlI agree with Calvin here. Calvin knew that the Son was begotten before the ages.
Quote (Ed J @ July 17 2010,22:49) Quote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,10:18) IF Elohim is the name for God (in combination form) and YHVH is “God's” name as the Male essence then what is YHVH Elohim? God God? Makes more sense as LORD God, no? Peace of Jesus be with you,
David
Hi David,YHVH GOD is the most accurate English expression of [יהוה האלהים].
The AKJV bible also has: The LORD JEHOVAH! (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hey Ed,Those two in Isaiah are super and awesome,,,thanks!
Great work! Yah got me thinking
David
Quote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,23:50) Quote (Ed J @ July 17 2010,22:49) Quote (davidbfun @ July 17 2010,10:18) IF Elohim is the name for God (in combination form) and YHVH is “God's” name as the Male essence then what is YHVH Elohim? God God? Makes more sense as LORD God, no? Peace of Jesus be with you,
David
Hi David,YHVH GOD is the most accurate English expression of [יהוה האלהים].
The AKJV bible also has: The LORD JEHOVAH! (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hey Ed,Those two in Isaiah are super and awesome,,,thanks!
Great work! Yah got me thinking
David
Hi David,That's my goal, to get you thinking and looking.
Most here are trying to convert others 'to their view'.My goal is to merely express my view until it is fully understood;
it's God's Job to convince others on the inside: if it's the right view.
So I don't argue with people; I only defend my view when it's attacked!Hopefully I have given you information that is yet unknown to you,
or at least confirmed information that you were yet unsure of!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2010,15:38) Hi WJ, Do you not even understand what I wrote? I KNOW gennao can mean those 3 things ALONG WITH a literal “begetting”. But yalad DOES NOT EVER MEAN ANY OF THOSE THREE ALTERNATE DEFINITIONS THAT GENNAO CAN MEAN.
AND YALAD IS THE WORD FROM PSALM 2 THAT PAUL QUOTES ABOUT THE BEGETTING OF JESUS. GET IT? So the begetting Paul talked of had to do with a real birth, not being converted to Christianity since the word he quotes is yalad – and yalad has nothing to do with anything but real births.
And I can't wait for you to stop playing games in our debate so I can beat you over the head with you own Ignatius quote. Are you blind to the fact it say “born from Mary AND from God”?
mike
MIke ………Was ADAM and EVE then begotten by GOD also because scripture says that Adam was a Son of GOD. What is you take on this then brother?.peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
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