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1 John 5:16-17
16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
What is the sin that leads to death? I have wondered if it is connected to the unpardonable sin of blasphemy of the holy spirit.
I also have thought maybe it has something to do with lying or testing the holy spirit since both Ananias and Sapphira where killed on the spot when they spoke falsely about the money that had witheld secretly.
Or is it simply mean don't pray for those who simply ignore the message and trample under foot the Son of God. Maybe those who are describe in Hebrews 6 that continue to live in sin even after fully knowing and sharing in the goodness of the truth. Shake the dust off of your feet and move on since it is no use to speak to those who are perishing.
Any thoughts on this?
I had an additional thought that perhaps it is referencing the Law. This is one area I have not studied very well and I understand there is a controversy over being and not being under the law. I must admit my ignorance but am aware of the controversy in general and it's most common comparitive verses that seem in conflict.
If this is addressing the law is some regard then I suspect that the reference could alude to the difference in punishment for certain laws. Perhaps if you break the food laws you get sick, if you break the medicinal laws you won't get cured, but if you break His Commandment Laws you are apt to end up in Hell.
I honestly don't know and this subject of the Law is one of my weakest links in scriptural studies.
Hi Mercy,
Every contact between God and man is through His “finger”, the Spirit of God. The whole bible is the recording of the words of the Spirit and the words and actions of Jesus and the apostles and prophets also are the Spirit.
Thus if one actually rejects the message of the Spirit through the bible or through the sons of God then what hope is there? They throw the lifeline back at God and condemn themselves. Thus we must be careful that what we hear from our brothers and sisters is not of that Spirit.Hi Mercy.
It could be the difference between things like adultery, murder, and the like, compared with breaking the speed limit while driving.
All sins can be forgiven except so it seems one, maybe two. But if we do not repent of adultery, then it is written that no adulterer will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But if we do not repent of going 10 kms over the speed limit, I am not sure if that such a thing will lead to death. I am sure that you are in danger of being fined by earthly authorities though.
Thanks guys for your input, I tried doing some searches for commentary to see what others have come up with. It seems to boil down to either of these 2 answers amongst most interpretations:
1) rejecting the message of Christ even when knowing he truth. i.e. they cannot be prayed for and receive life (spiritual) whe they will not except the gift of salvation and continue walking in the ways of the world.
and/or
2) breaking of commandment laws that warrant death. i.e. murderers can not be prayed for to recieve life (physical or spiritual) if they have sinned and the law demands death.
Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Based on the above (and other scriptures) I believe the sin that leads to death is once having known the goodness of God and recieved of His salvation you choose sin as a lifestyle (not an occasional slipup but accepting it into your life knowing it's sin, but not caring). As I understand it this is the unpardonable sin, treating as common the things of God.
I would love to read others thoughts on this (actually I would love to be wrong it's terrifying to think of someone having only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire).
That seems right seekingtruth. If one has tasted the power of the Holy Spirit and rejects the Spirit, he has choosen death.
Do you suppose that this is a diffination of blaspheme against the holy Spirit?
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Quote (kenrch @ July 28 2006,22:12) That seems right seekingtruth. If one has tasted the power of the Holy Spirit and rejects the Spirit, he has choosen death. Do you suppose that this is a diffination of blaspheme against the holy Spirit?
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Yes I do, I believe we can blaspheme by our additude towards the thing of God (it speaks volumes)most of the world sins the sin ,of death,it is to use the holy spirits name for our selfs ,for the holy spirit is god ,jesus manafested this to us in jonh 8:58, also in ex 3:14 for his name is holy not yo be used by us to refer to our selves,for he is in his name,so when we say his name,he is there, can we compare to him,that we should be called by his name,he is not stupid he knows his name in every language,and every time we use his holy name,he is there ,and he says yes son or dauter ,me here for you what do you need,because he is in his name,but we were not talking to him or about him we were just saying his name to refer to our selfs,so he comes to love us every time he hears his name,and we dident,want him,this nation is lit by his glorious name,for he is the light,me remember lots of times in life where someone called my name and me would turn around to see who was calling,but they were not calling me,they were calling,someone elts with my same name,and me was like ohh you dont want me ,ok,imagine godfor he hears his name day and night and he comes yet none want him!his name in the english language is,I AM ,PLEASE DONT USE MY FATHERS HOLY NAME FOR YOUR SELF ANYMORE,FOT IT HURTS HIM AND MAKES HIM FILL UNWANTED,BY MAN,SO REPENT,TURN FROM THE PRIDE OF USEING GODS NAME FOR YOUR SELF,FOR HE IS HAPPY TO FORGIVE,AND WILL HELP YOU HARNESS YOUR TOUNG,AND CHANGE THE WAY YOU SPEAK THIS EVIL LANGUAGE,JESUS LOVES YOU AND JUST ASKS YOU TO LOVE THE FATHER.if you keep his saying you will never see death!
the unforgiveable sin is when you know,yet you continue to use his name for your self, as if you were god makeing your self god,in that case you will go rite into the fire for he will say he never knew you.
Quote (Mercy @ July 28 2006,01:21) 1 John 5:16-17 16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
What is the sin that leads to death? I have wondered if it is connected to the unpardonable sin of blasphemy of the holy spirit.
I also have thought maybe it has something to do with lying or testing the holy spirit since both Ananias and Sapphira where killed on the spot when they spoke falsely about the money that had witheld secretly.
Or is it simply mean don't pray for those who simply ignore the message and trample under foot the Son of God. Maybe those who are describe in Hebrews 6 that continue to live in sin even after fully knowing and sharing in the goodness of the truth. Shake the dust off of your feet and move on since it is no use to speak to those who are perishing.
Any thoughts on this?
Hi Mercy:Quote 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.Based on the following scriptures, the sin that leads unto death is practicing sin wilfully after one has received the knowledge of the truth of salvation.
Quote 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
10:32
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
10:33
Partly *, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
10:34
For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
10:35
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
10:37
For yet a little while *, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.Quote 6:3
And this will we do, if * * God permit.
6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
6:7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them * * by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
6:8
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
6:9
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.Quote 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
12:15
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby * * many be defiled;
12:16
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
12:17
For ye know how that afterward *, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
12:18
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
12:19
And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
12:20
(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
12:21
And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear * and quake:)I do know that God is merciful and is not willing that any man should perish, and he knows the hearts of all men and will forgive even wilfull sin based on the circumstances if someone repents, but he is also a God of justice. I don't want him angry with me!!!
God Bless
It may be the sin, when some are delivered up before the Antichrist, that they do not speak to him with the Holy Spirit as our guide but with what they want to say that is not of God. I've heard this somewhere before but not sure if this is true or not.
Oh thanks, IM4Truth. Sorry I thought I knew what it was. Anyway, what are your thoughts on my prior post?
Any new thoughts on this topic?
Jesus said to those who seemed to be on his side (doing great works of the church), “Depart from me, I never knew you….”. What sin do you think they chose that led to death?
Could the sin that leads to death be pride?
I too…agree with the thoughts in this thread. At 1 John 5:16, 17, John evidently refers to willful, knowing sin in speaking of “a sin that does incur death” as contrasted with one that does not.
A “sin that does incur death”…would also be sinning against the holy spirit.
Also, someone asked what does it mean to willfully sin against the holy spirit or blaspheme the spirit? It is my understanding that that means to willfully and knowingly work against GOD's purpose and spirit…i.e. Judas and his being called the son of destruction…Or the Pharisees who persecuted and saught Jesus death even though they KNEW who he was..
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 24 2008,19:45) Any new thoughts on this topic? Jesus said to those who seemed to be on his side (doing great works of the church), “Depart from me, I never knew you….”. What sin do you think they chose that led to death?
Could the sin that leads to death be pride?
Those ones he said to, “Get away from me I never knew you”.. were not truly “for” him…their motives and heart condition were bad..notice this example..Mark 9:38-41… 38″Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39″Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
So you see everyone who TRULY is for CHrist..is certain of their reward..
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 25 2008,00:14) I too…agree with the thoughts in this thread. At 1 John 5:16, 17, John evidently refers to willful, knowing sin in speaking of “a sin that does incur death” as contrasted with one that does not. A “sin that does incur death”…would also be sinning against the holy spirit.
Also, someone asked what does it mean to willfully sin against the holy spirit or blaspheme the spirit? It is my understanding that that means to willfully and knowingly work against GOD's purpose and spirit…i.e. Judas and his being called the son of destruction…Or the Pharisees who persecuted and saught Jesus death even though they KNEW who he was..
Hi Dk,
I also agree with your views on “sin that lead to death”.
But my doubt is whether this death is first one or the second?
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