The Servant of God

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2007,16:49)

Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,12:57)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2007,12:30)

Quote (942767 @ May 02 2007,10:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2007,16:42)

Quote (942767 @ May 01 2007,12:38)

Hi WJ:

The following scripture that you have quoted explains it very well:

Hebrews 1:
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, *through whom also He made the world*. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Substance), and *upholds all things by the word of His power*. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,;

You say:

Either you believe that God lied in Isa 45:18 or you believe that Yeshua is God as John 1:1-3 shows.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I have told you that I believe that Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person. God is not a liar, and I don't believe that you are either but I do believe that you are misinterpreting scripture.

God Bless

Sorry, not meaning to put words in your mouth.

However I dont see how Isa 45:18 can be misinterpreted.

It very plainly says God himself created the heavens I am the LORD and there is none else.

Again, God would have to be a liar, or the scrpitures are not true in light of John 1:1-3 and Col 1:16,17 and Heb 1:3 and 1:10.

Or the scriptures harmonize by seeing Jesus for who he is.

One God with the Father and the Spirit.

Please tell me if there is another way of seeing these scriptures.

Blessings

Hi WJ:

Isaiah

45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Genesis 1
1:1
In the beginning God created * the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

1 Co 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

WJ, it is not Isaiah 45:18 that you are misinterpreting. There is only ONE GOD and there is no other God besides him. The misinterpretation is of John 1:1-3, Col 1:15-17, and Hebrews 1:3.

Jesus is not God in the sense that you are saying. There is only one God as Ephesians 4:6, 1 Co 8:6, 1 Ti 2:5 which have already been quoted state this.

Jesus is a man but not just any old ordinary man, he is the Only begotten Son of God, but nevertheless a man. But he is the finished product of what God intended for man in the beginning of creation, and God made every thing that he made with him in mind. He is God's heir and we who in the body of Christ are joint heirs with him. Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person as Hebrews 1:3 states.

One other scripture that I can quote that may help you to understand this is below:
And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5:5
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
5:6
As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
5:7
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and * * supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

We who are born again Christians should be manifesting God's character as we learn to apply God's Word in our daily life. We are not God, but we like Jesus are children of the Most High God. Jesus is our brother. 1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Hebrews

2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little * * lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
2:12
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
2:13
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
2:15
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
2:18
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

God Bless

Sorry 94

You say its misinterpretation of John 1:1-3 and Col 1:16,17 and Heb 1:3 and 1:10.

Besides a whole mess of what I believe you just did is misinterpret these. I will only touch on one point.

Is 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; *God himself that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: *I am the LORD; and there is none else*.

Do you see in the above verse any room for any
one else involved in the creation other than YHWH?

“God Himself” “There is none else”.

The writers of the scriptures were strict Monotheistic Jews that new the Hebrew scriptures and also were eye witnesses of the Lord.

Paul who wrote Colosians was a Hebrew of the Hebrews and yet he mentioned Yeshua as being the one by whom all things were created, and he was before all things and by him all things consist.

Did Paul and John who also wrote John 1:1-3 not know the Hebrew scriptures that says that God alone created all things?

Yet they include Yeshua as the one by whom all things were created.

And John as well as Paul and Peter and Luke and Thomas all ascribe “Theos” to Yeshua.

Can you see the problem here for Monotheistic Jews if they did not believe that Yeshua is God, one with the Father?

So again, you havent answered my question.

I dont want to burst bubbles There are well over 140 some thing verse that God alone did the Creation in the Beginning.

Now the question should be is the Apostles refering to the Creation of God in the Beginning or the New Heaven and the New Earth that will be created?

How was Jesus is the First and the Last? And did not Jesus say in MY Father House he has many Mansion and I shall go and perpare a place for you? The Kingdom of God will be right here on this New Earth.Churches they do not teach this, let us examined another, which is the role of the Chief Priest. Jesus, would rebuilt the Temple, when He returns and would be the One who will administer the daily Sacrifices. Read the temple layout or read Hebrew 9:1-28 also the future Temple, Ezekiel 44:1-31. God Spirit, would be in the holy of holies, the inner room, then Jesus will administer the worship of God His Father.Now think for your self,will Jesus then be Worshipping Himself ? Again read Rev 5, who sat on the throne?, then who is the Lamb?.

Does Jn 1:3
Sound like a new heavens and new earth.

John 1:3
*All things* were made *by him*; and *without him* was not *any thing made* that was made.

“Without him was not anything made that was made.”

Anything means everything and we and planet earth as we know it is part of the everything.

10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.

What world is it talking about here?

Burst bubbles, all you are doing is blowing a lot of bubbles.

Sorry, but I think you have been listening to to much of APs heretical teachings.

IMHO

WorshippingJesus

You are telling me that Jesus was in the Beginning of Creation.
Then what was Jesus name before he was Created? It could not be the historical Jesus that was reserved for him when he came to the Earth.

My bible tell me that Jesus was Created. And that his Father was the Creator.Are you saying that Creator becomes the Created? Then who created the Creator if the creator becomes the Created?When does God change?

Does this mean that God splits himself and has Multiple personalities? And does God fear himself? How does a God in the Flesh who you say is God Fear himself?

Isaiah 11
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

According to these verses that God rest upon his Son but yet you claim God robe himself in flesh.But in Jesus baptism we see the same God came upon his Son.

What about Jesus death? If Jesus is God then he didnt die.How do you kill a God who has Immortality? Are arugment is not if God can die.Are arguement would be how much of God can Die.And it sound like you are saying there are two Gods here and one of your Gods died. When Jesus was alive he had to cut his Finger nails and trim his Hair and take a Bath to wash off the dead skin cells and of course dirt.Did the Hair and finger nails and dead skin cells convert back to his Spirit?

Then in turn you quote

Quote

10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.

According to some bible translation it say through him.You hold no water on this.
John 1:3 (New King James Version)

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
And this makes a Big difference By him and through are two differnts things.

I do believe the Hectrical teaching is when you say that God is three Persons blessed trinity.

Again My bible tells me Hear Ol Israel the Lord thy God is One.
Thats all I need to know! My God dont have a Split personalties nor is he 3 Persons.God is the Father and Jesus is the Son. Thats plain simple even a 5 year can understand it.Why cant you?

IMHO

May 2, 2007 at 1:19 pm#51225

Participant

Quote

Then in turn you quote Quote
10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.

According to some bible translation it say through him.You hold no water on this.
John 1:3 (New King James Version)

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
And this makes a Big difference By him and through are two differnts things.

Just to make my point about Through him..Why do I need to go through the Son to get to the Father if Jesus is the Father? When you say Jesus is God that makes him the Father and dont matter how hard you try to say Other wise.As you say hes God..You sound like the Jesus Only.But in this case you split God up in three persons.And they dont.

I see no difference between God working through his Son Then we going through his Son to get to the Father.

May 2, 2007 at 6:48 pm#51235

Participant

Quote (Unisage @ May 03 2007,01:02)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2007,16:49)

Quote (Unisage @ May 02 2007,12:57)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2007,12:30)

Quote (942767 @ May 02 2007,10:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2007,16:42)

Quote (942767 @ May 01 2007,12:38)

Hi WJ:

The following scripture that you have quoted explains it very well:

You say:

Either you believe that God lied in Isa 45:18 or you believe that Yeshua is God as John 1:1-3 shows.

God Bless

Sorry, not meaning to put words in your mouth.

However I dont see how Isa 45:18 can be misinterpreted.

It very plainly says God himself created the heavens I am the LORD and there is none else.

Again, God would have to be a liar, or the scrpitures are not true in light of John 1:1-3 and Col 1:16,17 and Heb 1:3 and 1:10.

Or the scriptures harmonize by seeing Jesus for who he is.

One God with the Father and the Spirit.

Please tell me if there is another way of seeing these scriptures.

Blessings

Hi WJ:

Isaiah

Genesis 1
1:1
In the beginning God created * the heaven and the earth.

1 Co 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

WJ, it is not Isaiah 45:18 that you are misinterpreting. There is only ONE GOD and there is no other God besides him. The misinterpretation is of John 1:1-3, Col 1:15-17, and Hebrews 1:3.

Jesus is not God in the sense that you are saying. There is only one God as Ephesians 4:6, 1 Co 8:6, 1 Ti 2:5 which have already been quoted state this.

Hebrews

God Bless

Sorry 94

You say its misinterpretation of John 1:1-3 and Col 1:16,17 and Heb 1:3 and 1:10.

Besides a whole mess of what I believe you just did is misinterpret these. I will only touch on one point.

Is 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; *God himself that formed the
earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: *I am the LORD; and there is none else*.

Do you see in the above verse any room for any one else involved in the creation other than YHWH?

“God Himself” “There is none else”.

The writers of the scriptures were strict Monotheistic Jews that new the Hebrew scriptures and also were eye witnesses of the Lord.

Paul who wrote Colosians was a Hebrew of the Hebrews and yet he mentioned Yeshua as being the one by whom all things were created, and he was before all things and by him all things consist.

Did Paul and John who also wrote John 1:1-3 not know the Hebrew scriptures that says that God alone created all things?

Yet they include Yeshua as the one by whom all things were created.

And John as well as Paul and Peter and Luke and Thomas all ascribe “Theos” to Yeshua.

Can you see the problem here for Monotheistic Jews if they did not believe that Yeshua is God, one with the Father?

So again, you havent answered my question.

I dont want to burst bubbles There are well over 140 some thing verse that God alone did the Creation in the Beginning.

Now the question should be is the Apostles refering to the Creation of God in the Beginning or the New Heaven and the New Earth that will be created?

Does Jn 1:3
Sound like a new heavens and new earth.

John 1:3
*All things* were made *by him*; and *without him* was not *any thing made* that was made.

“Without him was not anything made that was made.”

Anything means everything and we and planet earth as we know it is part of the everything.

10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.

What world is it talking about here?

Burst bubbles, all you are doing is blowing a lot of bubbles.

Sorry, but I think you have been listening to to much of APs heretical teachings.

IMHO

WorshippingJesus

Does this mean that God splits himself and has Multiple personalities? And does God fear himself? How does a God in the Flesh who you say is God Fear himself?

Isaiah 11
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

According to these verses that God rest upon his Son but yet you claim God robe himself in flesh.But in Jesus baptism we see the same God came upon his Son.

Then in turn you quote

Quote

10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.

According to some bible translation it say through him.You hold no water on this.
John 1:3 (New King James Version)

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
And this makes a Big difference By him and through are two differnts things.

I do believe the Hectrical teaching is when you say that God is three Persons blessed trinity.

IMHO

Hi U,
The Word was with God and is never said to have BEEN created. All creation came through the Word who is the monogenes Son, the beginning of the creation of God.

God is a spirit but while God was in Christ, God was yet in heaven where Christ told us to pray to him, so while the Spirit is a manifestation of God we do not pray TO the Spirit OF God.

God is the builder.
Christ is the carpenter.

May 3, 2007 at 1:39 am#51299

Participant

Thats right he is the First Born of Every creature.That I knew.
What I should a said in Revelation John hears God say, Behold, I make all things new. This new creation has already been started, with Jesus the Son the beginning of it. Those at the first resurrection will follow Jesus and be born again or created into this new world to come.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Jas 1:18 That we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Rev 14:4 These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The firstfruits of the harvest should always be offered to in thanksgiving. Jesus said, The harvest is the end of the world (Mt 13:39) and in Rev 14:15 we see the harvest begin.

Read these promises..

Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Col 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven.

Rev 3:14 These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

Jesus is the firstborn among many brethren, but it says he “is the beginning,” just the beginning. Those who are to follow him and be like him are “written in heaven.” Yes indeed God’s Son is the beginning of God’s creation, not the creation that began with Adam but this new creation that has begun with Jesus. Remember, Paul said Adam was the figure of him that was to come (Ro 5:15), meaning Jesus, and he refers to Adam as the first man, calling Christ “the last Adam” (1Co 15:45).

Col 1:17 He is before all things, and by* him all things consist.

May 3, 2007 at 1:43 am#51300

Participant

Sorry Nick I should explain myself more.I got creation on the brain the Former and the Latter.

May 3, 2007 at 9:48 pm#51358

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2007,15:43)

Quote (942767 @ May 02 2007,13:17)

Quote (Tim2 @ May 02 2007,12:33)

Quote

You don't see a contradiction between YHWH creating the universe by Himself, and also creating it through Jesus?

I don't see any contradiction in this. He created the universe by Himself with Jesus and those who would be reconciled to Him through Jesus in mind. God made man in his own image, and Jesus is the finished product of what God intended in the beginning, and we who are in the body of Christ will also be like him when God is finished with us.

Hi 94,

So you believe that God had Jesus in mind when He created the universe, but Jesus did not yet exist?

In any event, the statements in the New Testament that Jesus created all things, and that all things are through Him (John 1:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:10) are irrefutable proof that Jesus is God. For God declares, “I, YHWH, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself and spreading out the earth all alone.” (NASB). When God says He did it by Himself, He is denying that He did it through anyone else.

Likewise, when Paul says, “All things are from Him and through Him and for Him,” in Romans 11:36, He is ascribing praise to God alone. So when He says all things are through Jesus (1 Corinthians 8:6), either Paul is contradicting Himself, or He is declaring that Jesus is God.

Tim

Hi Tim2:

You ask:

So you believe that God had Jesus in mind when He created the universe, but Jesus did not yet exist?

And my response is that he did not exist as a sentient person. God made everything that he made, and yes, he did it by himself, as Genesis 1:1 states, but he made everything that he made with the last Adam in mind. He made everything by him (with him in mind) and for him (he is God's heir). The first Adam was made a living soul or person, but his spirit had not been formed by God. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Jesus' spirit was formed through obedience to God's Word as he applied it in his daily life. And we are made the righteousness of God in him (that is in that spirit).

But I believe that you evaded some my questions posed to you in my last post to you. Is your spirit a different person than you?

There is only One God and Jesus is not God in the sense that you are saying.

Joh 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

God Bless

Hi 94,
Did Adam not have a spirit?
Then he was not a man.
He was not alive.

There was no fault in the breath of God given to him IMHO

Hi Nick:

Yes, Adam and Eve were alive, but they were as new born infants, but by “spirit” I am referring to the personality that is developed in a person through the life that he lives.

Jesus said, Joh 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh * * profiteth nothing: the WORDS THAT IS SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I hope this explains what I mean by spirit.

God Bless

May 3, 2007 at 11:35 pm#51360

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2007,16:36)

Quote (942767 @ May 02 2007,13:40)

Hi WJ:

You ask:

Is 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; *God himself that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: *I am the LORD; and there is none else*.

Do you see in the above verse any room for any one else involved in the creation other than YHWH?

And my response is no I do not. Jesus did not exist as a sentient person in the beginning.

God Bless

John 1:3,10 says…
3 *All things were made by him; and *without him* was not any thing made that was made*.
10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.

Do you see anything here that even slightly says that God had Yeshua in mind when he made the world?

Sorry, I am through with this talk. You are to far away from scripture for me.

Blessings to you though!

Hi WJ:

You said you were through talking indicating that I am far from the scriptures as far as you are concerned, but I will try the following to at least give you my reasoning.

Stong's concordance gives the following definitions for Word or Logos:

Strong's Number: 3056 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
lovgo߼/FONT> from (3004)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Logos 4:69,505
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
log'-os Noun Masculine

Definition
of speech
a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea what someone has said
a word the sayings of God decree, mandate or order of the moral precepts given by God Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim discourse
the act of speaking, speech the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking a kind or style of speaking a continuous speaking discourse – instruction doctrine, teaching anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed its use as respect to the MIND alone
reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating account, i.e. regard, consideration account, i.e. reckoning, score account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
reason would reason, cause, ground In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates achanging universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose inJohn 1.

And so, there are many ways that one might interpret what John has written here. My understanding is that concept or idea that God had for this world was brought into existence with Jesus in mind.

When the scripture states that the world was made by him, you are apparently understanding that to mean that he (Jesus made the world). Jphn 1:10 states: He was in the world, and the world was made (strong concordance definition: (came into existence) by (through) him, and the world knew him not.

And so that is what Hebrews 1:1-3 states: Hebrews 1
1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS;
1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and THE EXPRSS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had * by himself purged * our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

When John 1 states: “AND THE WORD WAS GOD” (THEOS), doctrine that Jesus taught and applied to his life came from God and so obviously that Spirit is God, and so, He and Jesus are one in the spirit, but they are two distinct living beings.

Hebrews 1:10 can only mean that Jesus founded the earth in that God made every thing into existence with him in mind as Hebrews 1:2 states and as John 1:10 indicates.

God Bless

May 4, 2007 at 1:08 am#51362

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ May 02 2007,16:40)

Hi 94,

Sorry, I wasn't trying to evade. I read those points but forgot about them while responding.

My spirit is not a different person than me. But grammar tells me that the Spirit is a person, for in John 14:16 the Spirit is called the Parakletos, which by definition is a person, a Comforter, as opposed to paraklesis, which is impersonal and means comfort. And I know that the Spirit is not the Father because Jesus says the Father will send the Holy Spirit to them in 14:26, at the same time Jesus is saying He will leave the disciples to be with the Father.

I don't believe there is a “sense” in which someone can be God. He either is God or isn't God.

Ephesians 4:6 says God the Father is over all things, “epi panton.” Jesus is not a panta because all panta were made through Him (Colossians 1:16), and He is before all panton (Colossians 1:17). Amazingly, Paul says in Romans 9:5 that Jesus is “epi panton,” the same thing He says about the Father!

Tim

Hi Tim2:

The reason I asked you if your spirit is a different person than you is because in 1 Co 2:10 the scripture states that God has revealed what he has prepared for them that love him by His Spirit and then in v. 11 compares your spirit knowing your thoughts as God's Spirit knows his thoughts.

And so, if your spirit is not a different person from you neither is God's Spirit a different person from him. Jesus said, 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh * * profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Your spirit should be the personality that you are as defined by the life that you live, and His Spirit is exactly that as well.

God is my Parakletos (helper) by His Spirit.

John 14:10 Jesus states: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but THE FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, he doeth the works.

John 14:17 Jesus talking about the Holy Spirit states:
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot * receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU.

The Father was in Jesus by his Spirit and is also in us as born again believers who have been raised from the dead even as was Jesus.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth (5723) in you.

God can be every where by His Spirit as the following scripture indicates:

Psalm

139:7
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

You say:
I don't believe there is a “sense” in which someone can be God. He either is God or isn't God.

But Hebrews 1:3 states:
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had * by himself purged * our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

And John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

1Jo 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, AND WE ARE IN HIM THAT IS TRUE, EVEN IN HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD, and eternal life.

So whether or not you believe that he is God in that sense or not that is what the scripture is saying. God made man in his own image.

You say:

By this you are saying that God is not over Jesus. It is true that Jesus is over all in that he is head of the church. A position to which God exalted him, and he is definitely worthy of this position, but if God exalted him to the position that initself indicates that God is over him which also the following scriptures indicate as well:

1 Co 15:27
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith * all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1 Co 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Re 7:10
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Jesus is God but not in the sense that you are indicating. When we have seen him through the life that he lived and does live we have seen God's Character (his personality). Therefore, he is God in that sense. They are one in the spirit of holiness. God made man in his own image.

God Bless

May 4, 2007 at 5:13 am#51367

Oxy

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2007,06:48)

Hi U,
The Word was with God and is never said to have BEEN created. All creation came through the Word who is the monogenes Son, the beginning of the creation of God.

God is a spirit but while God was in Christ, God was yet in heaven where Christ told us to pray to him, so while the Spirit is a manifestation of God we do not pray TO the Spirit OF God.

God is the builder.
Christ is the carpenter.

Nick, I have to disagree with you once again.

God was not in Christ. The Word was with God and was God. The Word created all things and went from God to be born of Mary, so if anything, Christ was in God and was God, not the other way around as you suggest.

The Father (God) sent forth the logos (God) to be conceived of the Holy Spirit (God), thus God was on earth. The Son is not the Father, the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son, but all are God.

They are in unity, but the Son and the Spirit submit to the Father, but all authority has been given to the Son.

May 5, 2007 at 9:10 pm#51449

Participant

Quote (942767 @ May 04 2007,09:48)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2007,15:43)

Quote (942767 @ May 02 2007,13:17)

Quote (Tim2 @ May 02 2007,12:33)

Quote

You don't see a contradiction between YHWH creating the universe by Himself, and also creating it through Jesus?

Hi 94,

So you believe that God had Jesus in mind when He created the universe, but Jesus did not yet exist?

Tim

Hi Tim2:

You ask:

So you believe that God had Jesus in mind when He created the universe, but Jesus did not yet exist?

But I believe that you evaded some my questions posed to you in my last post to you. Is your spirit a different person than you?

There is only One God and Jesus is not God in the sense that you are saying.

Joh 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

God Bless

Hi 94,
Did Adam not have a spirit?
Then he was not a man.
He was not alive.

There was no fault in the breath of God given to him IMHO

Hi Nick:

Yes, Adam and Eve were alive, but they were as new born infants, but by “spirit” I am referring to the personality that is developed in a person through the life that he lives.

Jesus said, Joh 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh * * profiteth nothing: the WORDS THAT IS SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I hope this explains what I mean by spirit.

God Bless

Hi 94,
Christ is the truth and the bread of life.
His words are the Spirit of God manifesting in him.
That has nothing to do with the Spirit of man in Adam.
We should not use biblical words here in nonbiblical usage.

May 5, 2007 at 9:12 pm#51450

Participant

Quote (Oxy @ May 04 2007,17:13)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2007,06:48)

Hi U,
The Word was with God and is never said to have BEEN created. All creation came through the Word who is the monogenes Son, the beginning of the creation of God.

God is a spirit but while God was in Christ, God was yet in heaven where Christ told us to pray to him, so while the Spirit is a manifestation of God we do not pray TO the Spirit OF God.

God is the builder.
Christ is the carpenter.

Nick, I have to disagree with you once again.

The Father (God) sent forth the logos (God) to be conceived of the Holy Spirit (God), thus God was on earth. The Son is not the Father, the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son, but all are God.

They are in unity, but the Son and the Spirit submit to the Father, but all authority has been given to the Son.

Hi Oxy,
Your argument is not with us but with Christ in Paul.
2Cor 5
” 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. “

May 6, 2007 at 1:28 am#51465

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2007,09:10)

Quote (942767 @ May 04 2007,09:48)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2007,15:43)

Quote (942767 @ May 02 2007,13:17)

Quote (Tim2 @ May 02 2007,12:33)

Quote

You don't see a contradiction between YHWH creating the universe by Himself, and also creating it through Jesus?

Hi 94,

So you believe that God had Jesus in mind when He created the universe, but Jesus did not yet exist?

Tim

Hi Tim2:

You ask:

So you believe that God had Jesus in mind when He created the universe, but Jesus did not yet exist?

But I believe that you evaded some my questions posed to you in my last post to you. Is your spirit a different person than you?

There is only One God and Jesus is not God in the sense that you are saying.

Joh 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

God Bless

Hi 94,
Did Adam not have a spirit?
Then he was not a man.
He was not alive.

There was no fault in the breath of God given to him IMHO

Hi Nick:

Yes, Adam and Eve were alive, but they were as new born infants, but by “spirit” I am referring to the personality that is developed in a person through the life that he lives.

Jesus said, Joh 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh * * profiteth nothing: the WORDS THAT IS SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I hope this explains what I mean by spirit.

God Bless

Hi Nick:

Please explain how I am using biblical words in non biblical usage? I am confused by your response to my post.

God Bless

May 6, 2007 at 2:20 am#51466

Participant

Hi 94,
You speak of man's spirit as an accumulative educative aspect of man but it is what gives him life.

May 6, 2007 at 8:32 am#51492

Oxy

Participant

94, I don't know who you are pal, but this is a place of confusion. I have never before come across so many mis interpretations of Scripture. Be on your guard my friend. They are masters in the art of deception. Not intentionally of course, just deceived.

They do not and will not listen to reason and any post you make that validates truth, they will ignore.

May 6, 2007 at 9:26 am#51502

Participant

Hi Oxy,
Scripture is the standard for truth here and not personal revelation.

May 6, 2007 at 2:02 pm#51521

Participant

Oxy

How do you know what you are in “IS not the Master of Art deception”? OR.. Did you just happen to pick up the bible one day and say Yep Jesus is God?

May 7, 2007 at 3:34 am#51548

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2007,14:20)

Hi 94,
You speak of man's spirit as an accumulative educative aspect of man but it is what gives him life.

Hi Nick:

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Adam became a living soul when God breathed the breath of life into his body and then he instructed him saying, Gen. 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

We see here that the consequence for disobeying God's instruction was death.

Before he sinned he did not have knowledge of Good or evil, therefore, he was in innocence like a new born child. But when he did sin, he died. What does this mean we know that Adam continued to live. In fact he lived 930 years before physically died.

Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

We know that Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden because of their disobedience, and so, I believe that this is saying that they lost their personal relationship with God through their disobedience. They became sinners because they yielded to temptation.

There are many walking around today with breath of life in their body but they are spiritually dead. Their soul is dead in that they do not have a personal relationship with God.

Col. 2:13
And you, BEING DEAD IN YOUR SINS, and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 Co. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (This says Jesus became a life-giving spirit)

And he says, John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

And he says, 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh * * profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Le 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: (A person may have breath of life in his body, but if he has not been reconciled to God, and is not walking in obedience to him, his soul is dead or separated from God.)

I understand Jesus to say that the life of my soul is in obedience to his commandments. If I say that I am a Christian, I am that because that is what I practice. If I am a sinner, I am that because that is what I practice. If you say that you are a physician, you are because that is what you practice.

You say:

Hi 94,
You speak of man's spirit as an accumulative educative aspect of man but it is what gives him life.

Jesus said in John 6:63 posted above that the Words that he has spoken to us are spirit and they are life. This is what gives life to the soul. Breathe of life gives life to the body, but the soul may be dead to God.

I have given you scripture to back up my understanding.

God Bless

May 7, 2007 at 3:44 am#51550

Participant

Hi 94,
Thanks.
This how I see it.
The Spirit of man is of the breath of God and returns to God at death[ecc12]
The direct cause of Adam's death was surely not the partaking of the knowledge of Good and Evil but the decision of God to exclude him from Eden and to his preclusion from partaking of the tree of life. He rebelled and chose to obey another god, the god of this world which brought with it a curse.
He died within 1000 years, which is as a day to God[Ps 90, 2 Peter]. Men are born into this curse of sin and death, and the isolation from their true God which problem Jesus came to resolve.

May 7, 2007 at 4:15 am#51553

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2007,15:44)

Hi Nick:

Then we just will have to disagree. I believe that the works of a man is what goes to God at his death. This is how God will judge him, according to his works.

Re 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Re 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

It takes breathe of life for the body to live, but the soul that sinneth it shall die.

Adam died spiritually on the very day that he sinned. His body then died on a daily basis and eventually went back to the dust from whence it was created.

Any way, God Bless you

May 7, 2007 at 4:18 am#51555