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Hi W,
So if Jesus was begotten of God as the exact representation of God
would that make him God or the son of God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,17:39) Hi W,
So if Jesus was begotten of God as the exact representation of God
would that make him God or the son of God?
NHWhy do you keep asking the same questions over and over?
There is no scripture anywhere that says Jesus was a son before he took on the likeness of sinful flesh and was born from the womb of the virgin Mary and the Angel Spoke and said he was the Son of God.
John 1:1 does not say and the word was the son of God.
It says the Word was God.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,22:17) Hi w,
Is this the word that was with God in the beginning?
NHAbsolutly, is that to hard for you to believe?
Hi WJ:
You say:
Truly this Jesus is one God with the Father and the Holy Spirit!
This is your conclusion from your interpretation of the scriptures. And so, do you agree with CB that there are three dieties?
And you say:
If the Father gave him “All” power and authority.
Then how much does the Father have?
Of course the answer is the Father still has “ALL” power and authority because they are One God.
1 Co 15:27 states:
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith * all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.Psalms 110
110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool *.John 15
15:1
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.1Co 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.Re 7:10
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.Matthew 16
16:13
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am ?
16:14
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist *: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am ?
16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.1Ti 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;I don't think that I need to elaborate on these scriptures. I believe that they are self explanatory.
God Bless
94,
You know the response. Jesus is man as well as God. He is the Son of Man, who be Scriptural prophecy had to receive dominion. Daniel 7. The Word became this Son of Man and received this authority, as the Son of Man, just as the Scriptures said it had to happen.
Can we please get past the constant need to repeat the Godhead and manhood of Christ?
Tim
Hi Tim2,
Your demand that Christ is our God
seems to deny the ever Almighty nature of God
and seems to overwhelm any claims to similarity in manhood
yet that similarity in manhood is essential for our ability to follow him.Quote (Tim2 @ May 01 2007,10:22) 94, You know the response. Jesus is man as well as God. He is the Son of Man, who be Scriptural prophecy had to receive dominion. Daniel 7. The Word became this Son of Man and received this authority, as the Son of Man, just as the Scriptures said it had to happen.
Can we please get past the constant need to repeat the Godhead and manhood of Christ?
Tim
Hi Tim2:My response was to WJ's post using scripture to show that God is superior to all including Jesus. And so, if you would like to join this discussion do you deny that the scriptures indicate that he is? And do you agree with CB that there are three dieties?
Where you like to take the discussion from here?
I disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures. Jesus is not God in the sense that you indicate. He is God in that he is the express image of God's person. (Hebrews 1:3) Pretty simple, really, God made man in his own image.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ May 01 2007,09:42) Hi WJ: You say:
Truly this Jesus is one God with the Father and the Holy Spirit!
This is your conclusion from your interpretation of the scriptures. And so, do you agree with CB that there are three dieties?
And you say:
If the Father gave him “All” power and authority.
Then how much does the Father have?
Of course the answer is the Father still has “ALL” power and authority because they are One God.
1 Co 15:27 states:
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith * all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.Psalms 110
110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool *.John 15
15:1
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.1Co 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.Re 7:10
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.Matthew 16
16:13
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am ?
16:14
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist *: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am ?
16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.1Ti 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;I don't think that I need to elaborate on these scriptures. I believe that they are self explanatory.
God Bless
94There are many more scriptures that prove the Deity of Christ. Here is a few!
Jn 1:1
In the beginning *God* created the heaven and the earth.Isa 42:5
*Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out*; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:Isa 45:12
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: *I, even my hands*, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.Isa 45:18
For thus saith the *LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and *there is none else*.Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 *All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made*.10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.
14 And the *Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us*, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Phil 2:
6 who, although He existed in the *form of God*, did not regard “equality” with God a thing to be grasped (held on to),1 Cor 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is *the Lord from heaven*.Col 1:
16 For *by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist*.Hebrews 1:
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, *through whom also He made the world*. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Substance), and *upholds all things by the word of His power*. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,;Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.Heb 1:10
And, *YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;Jn 20:
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, *My Lord and my God.*
29 Jesus saith unto him, *Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed*: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.One God the Lord, “by himself” made the heavens and the earth, there is “no one else beside him”.
I dont think these scriptures need explaining either.
Hi WJ:
You say:
One God the Lord, “by himself” made the heavens and the earth, there is “no one else beside him”.
I agree with this one 100%.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ May 01 2007,11:25) Hi WJ: You say:
One God the Lord, “by himself” made the heavens and the earth, there is “no one else beside him”.
I agree with this one 100%.
God Bless
NHGood then how do you explain…
3 *All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made*.
10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.
Col 1:
16 For *by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist*.Hebrews 1:
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, *through whom also He made the world*. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Substance), and *upholds all things by the word of His power*. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,;Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.Heb 1:10
And, *YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;Isa 45:18
For thus saith the *LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and *there is none else*.Either you believe that God lied in Isa 45:18 or you believe that Yeshua is God as John 1:1-3 shows.
Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
One Spirit, Three Persons, One God.
Hi WJ:
The following scripture that you have quoted explains it very well:
Hebrews 1:
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, *through whom also He made the world*. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Substance), and *upholds all things by the word of His power*. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,;You say:
Either you believe that God lied in Isa 45:18 or you believe that Yeshua is God as John 1:1-3 shows.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I have told you that I believe that Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person. God is not a liar, and I don't believe that you are either but I do believe that you are misinterpreting scripture.
God Bless
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2007,12:02) Quote (942767 @ May 01 2007,11:25) Hi WJ: You say:
One God the Lord, “by himself” made the heavens and the earth, there is “no one else beside him”.
I agree with this one 100%.
God Bless
NHGood then how do you explain…
3 *All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made*.
10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.
Col 1:
16 For *by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist*.Hebrews 1:
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, *through whom also He made the world*. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Substance), and *upholds all things by the word of His power*. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,;Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.Heb 1:10
And, *YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;Isa 45:18
For thus saith the *LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and *there is none else*.Either you believe that God lied in Isa 45:18 or you believe that Yeshua is God as John 1:1-3 shows.
Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
One Spirit, Three Persons, One God.
Hi W,
So your logic is.
“God made the worlds.
Jesus made the worlds.
Despite lack of written evidence Jesus MUST BE God.”Ahem.. logic lacks here because your conclusion differs from what IS revealed about Jesus, that he is the Son of God.
Logic is not the proper basic foundation for our beliefs.
Hi 94,
Thanks for allowing me to take part in your discussion.
I do not believe there are any Scriptures that say God is eternally greater than Jesus. I know of one that says the Father was greater than Jesus before the cross, but at the time Jesus was even lower than the angels, so I don't believe it to be an eternal superiority.
I don't know what CultBuster means by “deity,” but using the conventional meaning of the term, god, then I disagree with him. There is only one God, and He is the only Deity. I do, however, believe that Cult Buster says “deity” with the meaning of “person who is God,” in which case I agree with him, for the Scriptures plainly testify that there are three who are God.
Do you believe that Jesus is only a man, like you and me?
You don't see a contradiction between YHWH creating the universe by Himself, and also creating it through Jesus?
Tim
Quote (942767 @ May 01 2007,12:38) Hi WJ: The following scripture that you have quoted explains it very well:
Hebrews 1:
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, *through whom also He made the world*. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Substance), and *upholds all things by the word of His power*. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,;You say:
Either you believe that God lied in Isa 45:18 or you believe that Yeshua is God as John 1:1-3 shows.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I have told you that I believe that Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person. God is not a liar, and I don't believe that you are either but I do believe that you are misinterpreting scripture.
God Bless
94Sorry, not meaning to put words in your mouth.
However I dont see how Isa 45:18 can be misinterpreted.
It very plainly says God himself created the heavens I am the LORD and there is none else.
Again, God would have to be a liar, or the scrpitures are not true in light of John 1:1-3 and Col 1:16,17 and Heb 1:3 and 1:10.
Or the scriptures harmonize by seeing Jesus for who he is.
One God with the Father and the Spirit.
Please tell me if there is another way of seeing these scriptures.
Blessings
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2007,13:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2007,12:02) Quote (942767 @ May 01 2007,11:25) Hi WJ: You say:
One God the Lord, “by himself” made the heavens and the earth, there is “no one else beside him”.
I agree with this one 100%.
God Bless
NHGood then how do you explain…
3 *All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made*.
10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him*, and the world knew him not.
Col 1:
16 For *by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist*.Hebrews 1:
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, *through whom also He made the world*. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Substance), and *upholds all things by the word of His power*. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,;Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.Heb 1:10
And, *YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;Isa 45:18
For thus saith the *LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and *there is none else*.Either you believe that God lied in Isa 45:18 or you believe that Yeshua is God as John 1:1-3 shows.
Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
One Spirit, Three Persons, One God.
Hi W,
So your logic is.
“God made the worlds.
Jesus made the worlds.
Despite lack of written evidence Jesus MUST BE God.”Ahem.. logic lacks here because your conclusion differs from what IS revealed about Jesus, that he is the Son of God.
Logic is not the proper basic foundation for our beliefs.
NHYou say…
Quote
Ahem.. logic lacks here because your conclusion differs from what IS revealed about Jesus, that he is the Son of God.Logic is not the proper basic foundation for our beliefs.
Obviously logic is your basis for your beliefs, for you totally deny scriptures that plainly declare The Monogenes “Unique” Son to be God in the flesh.
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