- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2009,20:51) Hi S,
As soon as you address these verses I offeredJohn 3:2
this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, ” Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”John 1:38
And Jesus turned and saw them following, and said to them, “What do you seek?” They said to Him, ” Rabbi (which translated means Teacher), where are You staying?”Matthew 23:8
“But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
Nick,Again the big dodge – As soon as you address these verses I offered
I addressed that. If you will read to understand instead of defend your veracity, you would have seen that. But, again,
I will use your words – which I had already posted prior and you ignored – to address your own question. Note please
my response using your post:Hi S,
Indeed God has appointed teachers.1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.1 Corinthians 12:29
All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?Ephesians 4:11
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,But those teachers are only revealers of what is already written.They serve Jesus Christ, the teacher.
I answered your post and challenged your flip flopping –
teahers/ no teachers. You refuse to answer for your double talk and counter with you first.I now put this discussion to rest praying others see through
your double talk when it occurs. By their posts, I see many have, and in that I take solace.Seeking
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2009,21:00) Hi S, Mk9
Mar 9:38-40 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. For the one who is not against us is for us.You offer as an understanding of Mk 9
“Talking to the disciples he said, in todays vernacular, even if he is in another church preaching in my name and doing miracles in my name, he is on our side.”
There is only one church and that is the Body of Christ.
Rather what Jesus also said must be taken into account.
Nick,I do not fall for your trickery. You knew full well what I meant
by my example – Talking to the disciples he said, in todays vernacular, even if he is in another church preaching in my name and doing miracles in my name, he is on our side.”I did not say there is more than one church in my example but that the disciples thought they were the only ones worthy to teach in the name of Jesus (Mar 9:38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” )
That is exactly what people do today when the point to the “church”, I hasten to qualify for you, group down the street who – in the words of the disciples “he was not following us.”
But again, I believe you knew all that and we are verging uponwhat these texts describe – 1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 1Ti 6:5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
So with that I put this one to bed too!
Seeking
Nick
Why do you say “we”? are you now taking credit for the questions Samual ask?
You haven't shown me any holes.Georg
PS. I believe Seeking is getting to tnow you too.
Hi S,
You quote
1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 1Ti 6:5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.You indulde in aggressive personal accusations.
So why are you so timid about expounding these?John 3:2
this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, ” Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”John 1:38
And Jesus turned and saw them following, and said to them, “What do you seek?” They said to Him, ” Rabbi (which translated means Teacher), where are You staying?”Matthew 23:8
“But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in HimHi S,
You say
“That is exactly what people do today when the point to the “church”, I hasten to qualify for you, group down the street who – in the words of the disciples “he was not following us.”Do you believe that the church of God is a group of denominations who agree about very little and certainly not about how to join and who hate one another to the point of murder.
I do not.
Defence of the intergrity of the written word of God and it's divinely appointed place as doctrine is at least a non denominational starting point towards mutual love and agreement so we should focus on that rather than the poor servants who try to help the process.
Hi S,
“I did not say there is more than one church in my example but that the disciples thought they were the only ones worthy to teach in the name of Jesus (Mar 9:38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” )”Who would dare teach in the name of Jesus while Jesus, THE TEACHER, was still with them?
They werer not teaching, but still learning from THE TEACHER, as we should.We should not claim the difficult role unless appointed to it.
God watches their words.Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.Mk9
42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.Hi S,
You say
“I now put this discussion to rest praying others see through
your double talk when it occurs. By their posts, I see many have, and in that I take solace.”What solace is there for you in this approach?
Hi,
The gospel of Jesus offers the choice of life or death.
Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.Even the saved are tested by fire.
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:To All… Greetings!
Getting back to the “second death” I think we should consider a couple of Scriptures that will open up another view of what it means:
Revelation 2:11 (New American Standard Bible)
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.”Revelation 20:6 (New American Standard Bible)
“Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.”1 Corinthians 15:52-54 (New American Standard Bible)
“…in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, ‘DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.’”Revelation 21:8 (New American Standard Bible)
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”Revelation 20:14 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.”Since this last Scripture makes it very clear that “the lake of fire… is the second death” from which there is no resurrection, and those that
“will not be hurt by the second death” are those that “overcome,” we have to look further into the Scriptures to understand just who these that “overcome” really are.The Apostle John gives us a hint:
1 John 5:4 (New American Standard Bible)
“For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.”Jesus made the following statement:
John 16:33 (New American Standard Bible)
“These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”Again, this statement begs the question: “How does one overcome the world?
And the answer is:
Revelation 2:26 (New American Standard Bible)
“He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS… .”How, then, is this “authority over the nations” factored into it?
Revelation 3:21 (New American Standard Bible)
“He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”Obviously, the only way these that “overcome” can achieve this authority is by being among the “first resurrection,” those that have “put on immortality” and can no longer be “hurt by the second death.”
These are the ones “the bride of Christ” that will co-rule with Christ as ‘kings and priests” over the earth for a thousand years.Of interest, too, is the Scripture that has already been considered, but worth a second look:
Revelation 20:14 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.”This verse tells us that “death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire” which is “the second death.” Nowhere does this verse suggest that the “second death” is ever eliminated. Therefore, since those of the first resurrection have put on immortality and can no longer die, those that can suffer the second death must be those that remain on earth as subjects of the Kingdom of God.
Your thoughts are awaited. God bless!
To All… Greetings!
If, then, we understand that Revelation 14:1,4 directly relates to the “elect” or the “chosen ones” who have been “purchased from among men” to reign as “kings and priests” with Christ Jesus over the earth for “a thousand years” what about those who will be earthly subjects of God's Kingdom on earth? Who are they? I leave you with Revelation 19:11-21 and 21:8 to consider. God bless!
Hi Samual,
The armies around Jerusalem will be destroyed and many on earth will die in the fearsome tribulation but not all.Samual
Rev. 19:11-21 is speaking of the time before the millennium.
Rev. 21:8 is referring to all that during the millennium would not repent of their sins, they ended up in the lake of fire.
At the end of the millennium, Satan will be loosed out of his prison. The purpose for this is, to give all mankind a final test, those that follow Satan in his last rebellion will be instantly destroyed.
All those that remain obedient to God, will from then on live for ever.Georg
Hi georg,
So those whom you think refuse to re educated during the millenium time, when only the sons of the resurrection are raised, are cast into the fire?This is fanciful stuff.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2009,07:36) Hi georg,
So those whom you think refuse to re educated during the millenium time, when only the sons of the resurrection are raised, are cast into the fire?This is fanciful stuff.
Nick-odemusWould you brake that down for me, please.
Nick… Greetings!
Your reply indicates to me that you are on the right track in what you understand about Revelation 19:11-21, but with one slight deviation, I believe. Let me explain from what the Scriptures tell us:
Revelation 19:15 (New American Standard Bible)
“From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.”Revelation 19:19 (New American Standard Bible)
“And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.”Verse 15 depicts future events when Jesus Christ arrives to take control of this earth away from the worldly “nations” on the day when “He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.” This event, as you will notice, encompasses all “the kings of the earth and their armies” not just those around Jerusalem.
Of interest, too, is that those “kings and their armies” are “assembled to make war against Him” (Jesus) which must indicate some action taking place prior to this “war” that gathers these “kings” against those remaining “faithful and chosen” followers of Jesus Christ, for as Jesus said, “The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’”
Matthew 25:40 (New American Standard Bible)It also appears to me that you believe Jerusalem will be rescued from the upcoming tribulation. However, Nick, the Scriptures do not suggest this idea to be true. Recall this passage:
Matthew 21:42-43 (New American Standard Bible)
“Jesus said to them, ‘Did you never read in the Scriptures,
'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;
THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD,
AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?
Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.”
The “people producing the fruit of it” (the kingdom of God) is no longer the natural Jews, as even the Apostle Paul made clear:Galatians 3:27-29 (New American Standard Bible)
“For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.”For their rejection of Jesus they lost out on the position they once held as God’s representatives. That places them among the “kings of the earth and their armies” and “against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.” They will receive no protection during this upcoming “war” and the “fierce wrath of God the Almighty.”
Food for thought. God bless!
Georg… Greetings!
You are correct in your assessment and application of the timing of events mentioned. However, I was attempting to draw out the implications stated so clearly in Revelation 21:8 as they relate to Revelation 19:11-21.
If we go back to other Scriptures, perhaps you can better see what I meant:
Matthew 24:37-39 (New American Standard Bible)
“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.”Genesis 6:5 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”Genesis 6:13 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then God said to Noah, ‘The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.’”Genesis 7:1 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then the LORD said to Noah, ‘Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time.’”As these Scriptures point out, there is a criteria that must be met for survival through the great tribulation that culminates in the day “of the fierce wrath of God the Almighty.” (Revelation 19:15) This time period in which we now live is being assessed as to who will be saved and who will not. As Revelation 19:11-21 and 21:8 indicates, those falling into the categories listed will not survive this upcoming war. Survivors will not be such by chance. They will have to meet a strict criteria, as is brought out clearly in the following Scriptures:
Revelation 19:20 (New American Standard Bible)
“And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.”Revelation 14:9-10 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.’”Contrasted to Noah’s day, those survivors will be a great crowd or multitude, as the Scripture points out. (Revelation 7:9,14) However, when weighed with the current world population, more in tune with the Day of Noah and the eight surviving souls.
God bless!
Hi Samual,
The woman who produced the Son, ie true Israel, is taken to a place of safety.Rev12
6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.The Son wreaks vengeance against the kings and their armies.
Rev19
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Those in Judea MUST flee or the prophecy of Lamentations will be their fate.
Samual
Rev. 19:11-21 is speaking of the time before the millennium. It is God's wrath on all evil nations. The world will not realise, that what is happening is God's doing, and will even curse God for all the evil.
Peter spoke of this time too in 2 Pet. 3. Look around you, do you think this global economic crisis is a coincident? We are living in the last decade of that generation Jesus said, “would not pass till all things be fulfilled”.
Rev. 21:8 has no relevance to the previous scripture. These are the kind of people who in this life have done such evil crimes, that after they were resurrected they could not, or would not repent; they ended up in the lake of fire.
Matthew 24:37-39, whether you want to believe it or not, we are in the days of Noah, the only difference is, people think their Ark will be the rapture.
God's wrath on the world is not “the great tribulation”, although there will much tribulation, and very few men are left.Zep 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
Zep 1:17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.The only way we can be protected is, if we seek God now while there is still time.
Zep 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
Jesus tells us, “come out of her my people”, do people know where, or what, to come out of?
Why would Jesus say, “just as in the days of Noah”, it took Noah 120 years to build the Ark; is he giving us 120 years? as Nick correctly figured out, it has been 109 years since Christs return.Georg
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
