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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:13) Hi Tow,
Satan appears in your OT, but O, that's right, you allegorised poor old Job.
You continue the hatchet job on God and His works through men.
You really think men are cleverer than the sacred Word?
Nick,Who told the writer of Job of the scene in heaven?
Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,23:13) Quote So as a supposed servant of God you have ascribed to yourself the right to accept only portions of the OT. –nick
“You got it.”–tow
Could you please go over the parts that you believe and the parts you don't.
Basically this David:* I do not believe that G-d told men to commit genocide. If G-d wants to destroy people, He will do so just like the flood or S&G.
* I believe that many of the laws at the time of Moses were given because of the lifestyle and circumstances at the time. They did not have the modern conveniences we do today and that is why some forms of Judaism are seeing many of these as no longer applicable. This includes the mitzvot about women on their period, some dietary laws, etc.
* I view all miracles in scripture as uncertain. Why did G-d only choose to give miracles to those in scripture and not today? G-d does not change.
* Everything else I have no problem with (that I can think of).That's about it.
Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,23:16) “Behold, My servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, . . . for he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground . . . He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: He was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried . . . He was crushed because of our iniquities: The chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed. All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way . . . He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, . . . he was cut off out of the land of the living. . . . And they made his grave with the wicked.”—JP. Could we once more go over what you believe this means. I know you don't believe it is referring to the Messiah. Who then?
Israel. You know that is what I believe, and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that this passage is messianic even if it were to mean one person.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:20) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 31 2007,15:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,13:10) Hi Tow,
Your god is not our God.Agreed. YHVH would not copulate with a virgin human like so many other pagan gods supposedly did.
Quote Perhaps you are serving the god of this world? According to your GT, 'satan' is the god of this world. And since he seems to be winning, he must be the most powerful god in Christianity.
In Tanakh, YHVH is G-d of the world. So you must decide of you agree with Son of Light when you see 'satan' as YHVH or not.
Quote He hates our God and goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
You don't even know the name of you god. He is either Jesus or his daddy, 'god the father'.
Hi Tow,
Indeed the Father is the Creator God of heaven and earth.
However the rebellious human occupants of earth are controlled by another being, Satan.
The Son can set you free and you will be free indeed.
What free to sin because you've got your “Get of Hell Free” card?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:24) Hi Tow,
Elijah was aniointed by the Spirit of God in power and Elisha was given a double portion and raised the dead.
Were these just old wives tales too?It must be hard for you to have to decide what is true and what is false in the OT.
Clearly you feel you have an even greater portion if you can judge these men ?
Go away Nick, you are becoming an annoyance. You're constant attack on me is getting so very old. This thread is about the King Messiah, and my belief in miracles has nothing to do with that.Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,23:33) Ok, I remember now. You think it is referring to “Israel.” I'm wondering how this part applies to Israel:
“he was cut off out of the land of the living. . . . And they made his grave with the wicked.” JPThis is an interesting site:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/m.sion/jmiisa53.htm
Can you verify each of these? I think it was you who linked to a site which proved to use portions of Talmud that do not exist. You should be very careful in believing these sites without verifying what they have on them. Do you believe every word that comes from the mouth of your preacher (or whatever he is called in JW)?Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,23:36) Or this: “He was crushed because of our iniquities.”
What about it? Jesus was not crushed, he was crucified.David,
Do you think Jesus' disciples knew about Isaiah 53? If they did, why did Peter say this to Jesus?
Mat 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”
After all, all Jesus would have to do is present Isa 53 to his disciples and they would know the truth, right?
Or maybe they didn't, and maybe Jesus didn't, because not even Jesus thought this applied to him?
Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,01:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:13) Hi Tow,
Satan appears in your OT, but O, that's right, you allegorised poor old Job.
You continue the hatchet job on God and His works through men.
You really think men are cleverer than the sacred Word?
Nick,Who told the writer of Job of the scene in heaven?
Hi Tow,
The Spirit of God.
The work of the Spirit is to reveal the deep things of God.[1Cor2]Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,01:52) Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,23:13) Quote So as a supposed servant of God you have ascribed to yourself the right to accept only portions of the OT. –nick
“You got it.”–tow
Could you please go over the parts that you believe and the parts you don't.
Basically this David:* I do not believe that G-d told men to commit genocide. If G-d wants to destroy people, He will do so just like the flood or S&G.
* I believe that many of the laws at the time of Moses were given because of the lifestyle and circumstances at the time. They did not have the modern conveniences we do today and that is why some forms of Judaism are seeing many of these as no longer applicable. This includes the mitzvot about women on their period, some dietary laws, etc.
* I view all miracles in scripture as uncertain. Why did G-d only choose to give miracles to those in scripture and not today? G-d does not change.
* Everything else I have no problem with (that I can think of).That's about it.
Hi Tow,
So logic is your guide in this matter?
Is greek logic more reliable than what is written?
Does that not make you greater than the God who gave us what is written through men?Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,01:55) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:20) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 31 2007,15:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,13:10) Hi Tow,
Your god is not our God.Agreed. YHVH would not copulate with a virgin human like so many other pagan gods supposedly did.
Quote Perhaps you are serving the god of this world? According to your GT, 'satan' is the god of this world. And since he seems to be winning, he must be the most powerful god in Christianity.
In Tanakh, YHVH is G-d of the world. So you must decide of you agree with Son of Light when you see 'satan' as YHVH or not.
Quote He hates our God and goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
You don't even know the name of you god. He is either Jesus or his daddy, 'god the father'.
Hi Tow,
Indeed the Father is the Creator God of heaven and earth.
However the rebellious human occupants of earth are controlled by another being, Satan.
The Son can set you free and you will be free indeed.
What free to sin because you've got your “Get of Hell Free” card?
Hi Tow,
If you knew the powerful guidance of the indwelling Law of the Spirit then you would know that, while it is possible to sin and to find forgiveness, the amazing work of the Spirit is to help and motivate us not to do so.You are so obsessed with the weakness of the human vessel you do not see the possibilities of the power of God.
God is at work in us to will and to do.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2007,12:47) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,01:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:13) Hi Tow,
Satan appears in your OT, but O, that's right, you allegorised poor old Job.
You continue the hatchet job on God and His works through men.
You really think men are cleverer than the sacred Word?
Nick,Who told the writer of Job of the scene in heaven?
Hi Tow,
The Spirit of God.
The work of the Spirit is to reveal the deep things of God.[1Cor2]
Then if the spirit of G-d speaks to you, and you write something, is it supposed to be accepted? Is that all it takes?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2007,12:49) Hi Tow,
So logic is your guide in this matter?
Is greek logic more reliable than what is written?
Does that not make you greater than the God who gave us what is written through men?
What was that Mr. Misrepresenter?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2007,12:54) Hi Tow,
If you knew the powerful guidance of the indwelling Law of the Spirit then you would know that, while it is possible to sin and to find forgiveness, the amazing work of the Spirit is to help and motivate us not to do so.Your indwelling 'law' does not match G-d's Law, Torah. You might accept the 10 commandments, your might not, I do not know.
Do you think, like kenrch, that you are part of a 'spiritual Israel'? If you do, you must then follow Torah. I do not obey the many mitzvot of Torah because the covenant give through Moses is not for me unless I choose to convert.
Quote You are so obsessed with the weakness of the human vessel you do not see the possibilities of the power of God. And you are obsessed with attacking my character with every post to me.
I know the possibilities of G-d but you believe that if I do not see many things as G-d given, then I must disgard all. If you truly believe all of the bible, both Tanakh and GT, why are you not able to do those greater works that Jesus said you would do?
Quote God is at work in us to will and to do.
Yes, He is. But that does not mean miracles and killing of others. It means improving our relationship with Him and our fellow man.Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,07:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2007,12:47) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,01:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:13) Hi Tow,
Satan appears in your OT, but O, that's right, you allegorised poor old Job.
You continue the hatchet job on God and His works through men.
You really think men are cleverer than the sacred Word?
Nick,Who told the writer of Job of the scene in heaven?
Hi Tow,
The Spirit of God.
The work of the Spirit is to reveal the deep things of God.[1Cor2]
Then if the spirit of G-d speaks to you, and you write something, is it supposed to be accepted? Is that all it takes?
Hi Tow,
Read the book and see how the Spirit of God worked through the prophets and you will see God at work.Most who hear voices and are driven to do things are being used and controlled by satan's demons.
The vessel of man needs to be washed and cleansed of his squatters before available for the use of the Spirit of God.
Men are so easily deceived by religious or other spirits so it is necessary to check your path and your words with others who are enlivened and with what is already written as the work of the Spirit now is work as one in us and to reveal the future by reminding us of what has been already written.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2007,14:42) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,07:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2007,12:47) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 01 2008,01:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:13) Hi Tow,
Satan appears in your OT, but O, that's right, you allegorised poor old Job.
You continue the hatchet job on God and His works through men.
You really think men are cleverer than the sacred Word?
Nick,Who told the writer of Job of the scene in heaven?
Hi Tow,
The Spirit of God.
The work of the Spirit is to reveal the deep things of God.[1Cor2]
Then if the spirit of G-d speaks to you, and you write something, is it supposed to be accepted? Is that all it takes?
Hi Tow,
Read the book and see how the Spirit of God worked through the prophets and you will see God at work.Yes.
Quote Most who hear voices and are driven to do things are being used and controlled by satan's demons. No. This is pagan.
Quote The vessel of man needs to be washed and cleansed of his squatters before available for the use of the Spirit of God. Men are so easily deceived by religious or other spirits so it is necessary to check your path and your words with others who are enlivened and with what is already written as the work of the Spirit now is work as one in us and to reveal the future by reminding us of what has been already written.
All of this 'good' vs' evil' spirit stuff is so very pagan. You really don't read your OT much do you?Hi Tow,
Was King Saul troubled by a demon/spirit?
Were Elisha and the other prophets anointed by the Spirit of God?You will not understand much of the kingdom of darkness if you reject the teachings of the Son of God.
He took us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light of His Son.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2007,16:50) Hi Tow,
Was King Saul troubled by a demon/spirit?As I said, you don't read your OT much.
1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him.
So much for your demon theory.
But why was is that when David played soothing music in Saul's presence, the 'evil spirit' left him? Ever heard the quote “music calms the savage beast”? Saul was full of mood swings due to his ever increasing spiritual decline and his choices to be disobedient to G-d. Therefore, he found no refuge in G-d and ended up wrapped up in his own selfish wants and desires. It has nothing to do with demons.
Demons are just an excuse for Christians to blame the evils of this world on the man in the red suit and his underlings instead of the free will choice of men.
Quote Were Elisha and the other prophets anointed by the Spirit of God? Yes, but I fail to see what these responses have to do with this thread.
Quote You will not understand much of the kingdom of darkness if you reject the teachings of the Son of God. I will not have an understanding of the 'kingdom of darkness' because there is no such hogwash outside of mythology and fantasy fiction.
Quote He took us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light of His Son.
You are utterly deceived by your pagan beliefs.
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