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“It can have been by no means so easy as some writers seem to think to invent words and deeds of Jesus in those early years, when so many of His disciples were about, who could remember what had and had not happened. . . . The disciples could not afford to risk inaccuracies (not to speak of willful manipulation of the facts), which would at once be exposed by those who would be only too glad to do so. On the contrary, one of the strong points in the original apostolic preaching is the confident appeal to the knowledge of the hearers; they not only said, ‘We are witnesses of these things,’ but also, ‘As you yourselves also know’ (Acts 2:22).”–Professor F. F. Bruce
Quote David, suicide bombers die for their religion too. Bad example.
Yes, Tow, suicide bombers die BELIEVING that they are right, and that their actions are therefore correct.So, continuing on, the ones who wrote the Christian scriptures and faced persecution and death, similarly BELIEVED that Jesus was who they were writing he was….or they wouldn't have risked their lives…much like your suicide bombers.
Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2008,20:55) “It can have been by no means so easy as some writers seem to think to invent words and deeds of Jesus in those early years, when so many of His disciples were about, who could remember what had and had not happened. . . . The disciples could not afford to risk inaccuracies (not to speak of willful manipulation of the facts), which would at once be exposed by those who would be only too glad to do so. On the contrary, one of the strong points in the original apostolic preaching is the confident appeal to the knowledge of the hearers; they not only said, ‘We are witnesses of these things,’ but also, ‘As you yourselves also know’ (Acts 2:22).”–Professor F. F. Bruce Quote David, suicide bombers die for their religion too. Bad example.
Yes, Tow, suicide bombers die BELIEVING that they are right, and that their actions are therefore correct.And so did the Christian martyrs. Your point?
Quote So, continuing on, the ones who wrote the Christian scriptures and faced persecution and death, similarly BELIEVED that Jesus was who they were writing he was….or they wouldn't have risked their lives…much like your suicide bombers.
So you admit that either both have truth or that neither have truth. Which is it?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2008,21:00) Hey tow,
We are sold out for Jesus.
No other plans.
thanks anyway.
The monster truck rally is sold out too. Both hold the same value in human history.Ooops, wrong again. Monster truck rallies did not cause millions of Jewish deaths at the hands of Christians. My bad.
The ones who wrote the Christians scriptures at the very least, BELIEVED what they were writing, (like the suicide bombers believed they were right and correct in their actions)
Were myths and legends introduced after the original writing was completed? We have already seen that the text of the Christian Greek Scriptures is in better condition than any other ancient literature. How many? 5,000 manuscripts that have survived from antiquity down to today, some from as early as the second century C.E.
The general testimony of this mass of evidence is that the text is essentially sound. Additionally, there are many ancient translations—the earliest dating to about the year 180 C.E.—that help to prove that the text is accurate.So it hasn't changed. And what it contains is what the writers believed.
Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 04 2008,13:57) Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2008,20:55) “It can have been by no means so easy as some writers seem to think to invent words and deeds of Jesus in those early years, when so many of His disciples were about, who could remember what had and had not happened. . . . The disciples could not afford to risk inaccuracies (not to speak of willful manipulation of the facts), which would at once be exposed by those who would be only too glad to do so. On the contrary, one of the strong points in the original apostolic preaching is the confident appeal to the knowledge of the hearers; they not only said, ‘We are witnesses of these things,’ but also, ‘As you yourselves also know’ (Acts 2:22).”–Professor F. F. Bruce Quote David, suicide bombers die for their religion too. Bad example.
Yes, Tow, suicide bombers die BELIEVING that they are right, and that their actions are therefore correct.And so did the Christian martyrs. Your point?
Quote So, continuing on, the ones who wrote the Christian scriptures and faced persecution and death, similarly BELIEVED that Jesus was who they were writing he was….or they wouldn't have risked their lives…much like your suicide bombers.
So you admit that either both have truth or that neither have truth. Which is it?
I don't remember admitting either of those things. What I did say was that both BELIEVED….(I even put it in large caps) They both believed that they were correct.Yes, you've proven that someone can believe in a wrong thing and die for it.
But you've also proven that if one is willing to die for something, chances are that he BELIEVES in it.Those who wrote the Greek Scriptures believed what they were writing. They weren't making something up. They weren't willing to die for something they knew to be a lie.
Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2008,21:02) The ones who wrote the Christians scriptures at the very least, BELIEVED what they were writing, (like the suicide bombers believed they were right and correct in their actions) Were myths and legends introduced after the original writing was completed? We have already seen that the text of the Christian Greek Scriptures is in better condition than any other ancient literature. How many? 5,000 manuscripts that have survived from antiquity down to today, some from as early as the second century C.E.
The general testimony of this mass of evidence is that the text is essentially sound. Additionally, there are many ancient translations—the earliest dating to about the year 180 C.E.—that help to prove that the text is accurate.So it hasn't changed. And what it contains is what the writers believed.
And this is supposed to mean what? I know people who believe in Scientology and Urantia Book. So will you then accept the validity of these writings?Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2008,21:06) Those who wrote the Greek Scriptures believed what they were writing. They weren't making something up. They weren't willing to die for something they knew to be a lie.
So just because they believed it, I should too?Seriously David, from our previous exchanges I expected more from you. I was looking forward to intelligent responses (I've hit a dry spell) and you disappoint.
Quote And this is supposed to mean what? I know people who believe in Scientology and Urantia Book. So will you then accept the validity of these writings? The difference is they believe something they didn't see, or have no way of knowing for sure. The disciples of Jesus did know Jesus. They believed Jesus, a man they saw. They didn't believe some story about Jesus from someone that someone else told.
The suicide bombers believed that what they were doing would help their country (win the war, advance terror, etc.) Maybe it did and maybe it didn't, but this is something they could not know for sure. They believed it, but it wasn't something factual they were putting their belief in…it was something they wanted to turn out to be true.The disciples who wrote of Jesus knew Jesus and were willing to die because of their beliefs.
But, if the majority of scientologists start dieing because of their beliefs, I will at least ask why.
I'm thinking that if pressured with death, many believers wouldn't believe as much.Quote (david @ Jan. 03 2008,21:33) Quote And this is supposed to mean what? I know people who believe in Scientology and Urantia Book. So will you then accept the validity of these writings? The difference is they believe something they didn't see, or have no way of knowing for sure. The disciples of Jesus did know Jesus. They believed Jesus, a man they saw. They didn't believe some story about Jesus from someone that someone else told.
Did you know that there were many other false messiahs that came before and after Jesus that had a bigger following at the time they were alive? What makes you think they were any more or less valid than Jesus based on this false belief? Here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants
Quote The suicide bombers believed that what they were doing would help their country (win the war, advance terror, etc.) Maybe it did and maybe it didn't, but this is something they could not know for sure. They believed it, but it wasn't something factual they were putting their belief in…it was something they wanted to turn out to be true. And this differs from Jesus how?
Quote The disciples who wrote of Jesus knew Jesus and were willing to die because of their beliefs. You have no proof that the original disciples wrote of Jesus. The names given to the gospels were based on legend.
Quote But, if the majority of scientologists start dieing because of their beliefs, I will at least ask why.
I'm thinking that if pressured with death, many believers wouldn't believe as much.
More Jews died because of their faith than Christians. If the number of deaths is a true indicator of reality, when will you be converting to Judaism?Hi tow,
Clearly God to you is just an intellectual concept and you have no awareness of Him.
That is how it is for philosophers.What will the King Messiah accomplish and fulfill?
(1) Build the 3rd Temple (Eze 37:26-28, Mic 4:1).
(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isa 43:5-6, Isa 27:12-13 & 11:12).
(3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isa 2:4, Isa 11:6, Micah 4:3)
(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. (Isa 11:9, Isa 40:5, Jer 31:31-34, Zec 14:9, Zep 3:9).
(5) Be a descendant of King David and his son Solomon (Is 11:1, Jer 23:5, Eze 34:23-24, 2 Sam 7:12-14, 1 Chr 17:11)
(6) Will not lead people to disobey Torah (Deu 13:1-4). All though this is not messianic specifically, it is in the sense that the real King Messiah will NOT be like the ones spoken of in this passage. If someone matches this passage, you can be certain they are not king Messiah.
Has anyone fulfilled even a single one of these? Not yet. Much less all six. This includes Jesus of Nazareth, Theudas (Acts 5:36), Judas the Galilean (Acts 5:37), Benjamin the Egyptian, Menachem, or Simeon Bar Kochba. What do all of these men have in common? They died by crucifixion and they claimed to be the King Messiah.
Hi Tow,
In His own good time.
You are so caught up in human things that you think 6000 years is a long time.
Set your mind on things above where real life is.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2008,12:13) Hi Tow,
In His own good time.
You are so caught up in human things that you think 6000 years is a long time.
Set your mind on things above where real life is.
What will the King Messiah accomplish and fulfill?(1) Build the 3rd Temple (Eze 37:26-28, Mic 4:1).
(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isa 43:5-6, Isa 27:12-13 & 11:12).
(3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isa 2:4, Isa 11:6, Micah 4:3)
(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. (Isa 11:9, Isa 40:5, Jer 31:31-34, Zec 14:9, Zep 3:9).
(5) Be a descendant of King David and his son Solomon (Is 11:1, Jer 23:5, Eze 34:23-24, 2 Sam 7:12-14, 1 Chr 17:11)
(6) Will not lead people to disobey Torah (Deu 13:1-4). All though this is not messianic specifically, it is in the sense that the real King Messiah will NOT be like the ones spoken of in this passage. If someone matches this passage, you can be certain they are not king Messiah.
Has anyone fulfilled even a single one of these? Not yet. Much less all six. This includes Jesus of Nazareth, Theudas (Acts 5:36), Judas the Galilean (Acts 5:37), Benjamin the Egyptian, Menachem, or Simeon Bar Kochba. What do all of these men have in common? They died by crucifixion and they claimed to be the King Messiah.
Hi tow,
It will be great to see.
When Christ returns his followers will be as kings and priests to our God.
He has came and begun a fire that satan cannot put out and he will return to take them to be with him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2008,12:40) Hi tow,
It will be great to see.
When Christ returns his followers will be as kings and priests to our God.
He has came and begun a fire that satan cannot put out and he will return to take them to be with him.
What will the King Messiah accomplish and fulfill?(1) Build the 3rd Temple (Eze 37:26-28, Mic 4:1).
(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isa 43:5-6, Isa 27:12-13 & 11:12).
(3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isa 2:4, Isa 11:6, Micah 4:3)
(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. (Isa 11:9, Isa 40:5, Jer 31:31-34, Zec 14:9, Zep 3:9).
(5) Be a descendant of King David and his son Solomon (Is 11:1, Jer 23:5, Eze 34:23-24, 2 Sam 7:12-14, 1 Chr 17:11)
(6) Will not lead people to disobey Torah (Deu 13:1-4). All though this is not messianic specifically, it is in the sense that the real King Messiah will NOT be like the ones spoken of in this passage. If someone matches this passage, you can be certain they are not king Messiah.
Has anyone fulfilled even a single one of these? Not yet. Much less all six. This includes Jesus of Nazareth, Theudas (Acts 5:36), Judas the Galilean (Acts 5:37), Benjamin the Egyptian, Menachem, or Simeon Bar Kochba. What do all of these men have in common? They died by crucifixion and they claimed to be the King Messiah.
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