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Quote (t8 @ Jan. 23 2013,11:14) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2013,20:24) Indeed. Wait a sec. If you love something set it free, but if it doesn't come back then wait till it dies then dig it up and set fire to it in sulfur.
Stuart
Wait a 2 secs.If you love something, set it free.
If it doesn't return, then it rejects the God who set it free. Thus destruction is what it has freely chosen as it believes will happen anyway. To not destroy it is to not set it free to be separate from God because God is the God of the living.
Who believes he will be set on fire in sulfur?This god can't stop its murderous and destructive interference, can it. It doesn't conform to human ethics, but it does have the option of just bogging off and leaving us alone. There is no need for the whole free will / separation / toasting in brimstone thing. It could just go somewhere else and not pay any attention to humans ever again. Then it would not cause the misery it does.
Of course none of that is real, but I bet you can't argue that the petty wishful thinking of a few who think they can do witchcraft and cheat death is really worth all the nastiness such deluded believers leave in their wake as they tell others how evil they are.
Not a very nice hobby this christianity.
Had you considered line dancing instead?
Stuart
Stu, all life comes from God's Spirit. He is entitled to remove that spirit from people when they hate him and don't want to live with God forever.
Do you have a garden at your place.
You are entitled to remove the weeds and put them in the compost.And no one is forcing you to be a weed. If you choose that and know the fate of weeds, then why complain? Do something about it.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,17:43) Stu, all life comes from God's Spirit. He is entitled to remove that spirit from people when they hate him and don't want to live with God forever. Do you have a garden at your place.
You are entitled to remove the weeds and put them in the compost.And no one is forcing you to be a weed. If you choose that and know the fate of weeds, then why complain? Do something about it.
Are you suggesting that weeds have free will? Brilliant analogy again, t8.I disagree that your god has any rights over me at all. When it comes to the human rights abuses that this god has allegedly perpetrated, I think it is answerable to us more than we are to it.
I don't see it providing any answers to anything.
Come to think of it, I don't see it at all. It doesn't seem to actually exist.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2013,21:23) I disagree that your god has any rights over me at all.
Stu, that is why God takes people out of existence.
Because they don't want God to have any right over them.God is love and God is life. If you reject God, then you are in effect supporting the outcome.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 25 2013,12:01) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2013,21:23) I disagree that your god has any rights over me at all.
Stu, that is why God takes people out of existence.
Because they don't want God to have any right over them.
I already knew your god was a murderer and a bully.Do you think counseling would help it to understand diversity?
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 25 2013,12:02) Yes Stu. We have the choice to become fruitful or to be as useless as an unwanted weed.
And will you be the fruitful partner in the defense of humanity against this murdering god, or will you be the useless weed that just accepts any evil dictate it passes down without question?If only we had a photograph of it, then it would be easier to spot the enemy.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2013,21:20) Stu, that is why God takes people out of existence.
Because they don't want God to have any right over them.[/quote]
I already knew your god was a murderer and a bully.Do you think counseling would help it to understand diversity?
Stuart
One thing you say that is right. There is much diversity in imperfection which is sin.But perfection is a far better way and certainly lacks not in diversity.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 25 2013,20:13) I am on God's side Stu. Not your side.
As you might know, the police that were the very efficient agents of violent oppression in the totalitarian East German state of the Cold War were called the Stasi. They didn't care very much that they were agents of human rights abuse. I'm sure they felt they occupied the moral high ground because their ideology told them what their morals should be.You might have made a good one of those if you are incapable of analysing the supposed commands of your god in ethical terms.
You might be on your god's side but you haven't argued it is the moral side. It just appears to be the convenient side for you.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 25 2013,20:14) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2013,21:20) Stu, that is why God takes people out of existence.
Because they don't want God to have any right over them.
I already knew your god was a murderer and a bully.Do you think counseling would help it to understand diversity?
Stuart[/quote]
One thing you say that is right. There is much diversity in imperfection which is sin.But perfection is a far better way and certainly lacks not in diversity.
The purity of perfection is the perfection of the fascist totalitarian state.New Zealanders fought, and killed, and died in several wars that opposed exactly that ideology. Maybe people from your family fought alongside people from mine, I don't know.
But here you are abusing their memory by promoting exactly what Mussolini, Hitler and Pavelić promoted. Mussolini even had things painted white as a symbol of his intolerance for what he considered non-ideological impurity.
On the other hand, the history-ignorant members of the Destiny church march in this country in the black of the British fascists.
The Croatian puppet dictator Pavelić would have had you converted to Catholicism at gunpoint.
I find one has to be so careful what one wishes for. I'd suggest you might consider that carefully given the freedoms you currently enjoy in this diverse, non-fascist, non-totalitarian Western democracy, and the blood our relatives shed to preserve them.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2013,21:30) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 25 2013,20:14) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2013,21:20) Stu, that is why God takes people out of existence.
Because they don't want God to have any right over them.
I already knew your god was a murderer and a bully.Do you think counseling would help it to understand diversity?
Stuart
One thing you say that is right. There is much diversity in imperfection which is sin.But perfection is a far better way and certainly lacks not in diversity.[/quote]
The purity of perfection is the perfection of the fascist totalitarian state.New Zealanders fought, and killed, and died in several wars that opposed exactly that ideology. Maybe people from your family fought alongside people from mine, I don't know.
But here you are abusing their memory by promoting exactly what Mussolini, Hitler and Pavelić promoted. Mussolini even had things painted white as a symbol of his intolerance for what he considered non-ideological impurity.
On the other hand, the history-ignorant members of the Destiny church march in this country in the black of the British fascists.
The Croatian puppet dictator Pavelić would have had you converted to Catholicism at gunpoint.
I find one has to be so careful what one wishes for. I'd suggest you might consider that carefully given the freedoms you currently enjoy in this diverse, non-fascist, non-totalitarian Western democracy, and the blood our relatives shed to preserve them.
Stuart
Stu …. Diversecity in and of itself is what makes up this world we live in …. it is tolerance that is the most demanding requisite,of which our very nature is opposed to… You cannot legislate tolerance… Dictators by nature are in tolerant …. The elixir of the masses in our free western world is liberty of which we have confused with license and for that we will loose our freedom…Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 15 2013,00:45) Stu …. Diversecity in and of itself is what makes up this world we live in …. it is tolerance that is the most demanding requisite,of which our very nature is opposed to… You cannot legislate tolerance… Dictators by nature are in tolerant …. The elixir of the masses in our free western world is liberty of which we have confused with license and for that we will loose our freedom…
theodorej! Long time!I like your statement against ideological totalitarianism.
Unfortunately christianity is exactly that.
How many ways are there to god, for example?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 26 2013,00:19) You might have made a good one of those if you are incapable of analysing the supposed commands of your god in ethical terms. You might be on your god's side but you haven't argued it is the moral side. It just appears to be the convenient side for you.
Have another go Stu.Thou shalt not kill
Love your neighbour as yourself
It is more blessed to give than receive.
If you have 2 coats, give one to the man who doesn't have a coat.This is what I live by.
The Stasi did not live by such ethics.
And you do not have to live by such ethics because you believe in Evolution which is survival of the fittest, or survival of those who eliminate competition.It is the opposite of the point you are trying to make.
You failed again.
Have another go Stu. One day you might actually win on a point.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,23:28) theodorej! Long time! I like your statement against ideological totalitarianism.
Unfortunately christianity is exactly that.
How many ways are there to god, for example?
Stuart
If you possess any logic, ask yourself this.What is the ratio of truth vs a lie.
e.g., 1+ 1=2
Or 1+1=3
1+1=4
…It is clear that there is truth and then there is an abundance of ways to lie.
One truth. It is logical and self evident.
You failed again Stu.
One day you might win on a point. But to do that, you need to let go of your emotions that make you rebel against all that is true. You need to settle down and think about the answer. I know you can do it. You don't even need to be intelligent. Just sensible. And all can be sensible if they choose.
I wish you the best in that endevour.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,20:28) Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 15 2013,00:45) Stu …. Diversecity in and of itself is what makes up this world we live in …. it is tolerance that is the most demanding requisite,of which our very nature is opposed to… You cannot legislate tolerance… Dictators by nature are in tolerant …. The elixir of the masses in our free western world is liberty of which we have confused with license and for that we will loose our freedom…
theodorej! Long time!I like your statement against ideological totalitarianism.
Unfortunately christianity is exactly that.
How many ways are there to god, for example?
Stuart
Stu … Christianity is a way of life …. The proof that we are awash in confusion over just what christianity is evident by the many versions there are… and… can you believe it …. they all correct in their doctrine because it “says it here in the Bible”….Jesus graced this planet to speak to organized religion and the dangers it imposed and those in charge killed him…. This was part of Gods plan to show us The Way… and… that was to emulate the life of this carpenters son who held to the Law (Torah) NOT the Talmud..Most of Jesus' followers were Jews…Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,22:11) If you possess any logic, ask yourself this. What is the ratio of truth vs a lie.
e.g., 1+ 1=2
Or 1+1=3
1+1=4
…
1+1=3 for large values of one.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,22:05) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 26 2013,00:19) You might have made a good one of those if you are incapable of analysing the supposed commands of your god in ethical terms. You might be on your god's side but you haven't argued it is the moral side. It just appears to be the convenient side for you.
Have another go Stu.Thou shalt not kill
2 Samuel 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.Love your neighbour as yourself
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination…
Leviticus 18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.Quote It is more blessed to give than receive.
Which doesn’t actually work, does it. You can’t have more givers than receivers.Quote If you have 2 coats, give one to the man who doesn't have a coat.
Mark 4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.Quote This is what I live by.
The Stasi did not live by such ethics.
The Stasi lived by the ethics of your god, by the looks of it. 24/7 surveillance and torturing and killing dissidents.And you do not have to live by such ethics because you believe in Evolution which is survival of the fittest, or survival of those who eliminate competition.
Natural selection has given us ethics; evolution itself isn’t an ethical system it is just the fact of our natural history. And it looks like you only have a strawman version of natural selection in your head, one that you might have copied from morons like Ken Ham for the purpose of denying history.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2013,22:05) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 26 2013,00:19) You might have made a good one of those if you are incapable of analysing the supposed commands of your god in ethical terms. You might be on your god's side but you haven't argued it is the moral side. It just appears to be the convenient side for you.
Have another go Stu.Thou shalt not kill
*** Attempt two, this time with formatting ***2 Samuel 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
Quote Love your neighbour as yourself
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination…
Leviticus 18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.Quote It is more blessed to give than receive.
Which doesn’t actually work, does it. You can’t have more givers than receivers.Quote If you have 2 coats, give one to the man who doesn't have a coat.
Mark 4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.Quote This is what I live by.
The Stasi did not live by such ethics.
The Stasi lived by the ethics of your god, by the looks of it. 24/7 surveillance and torturing and killing dissidents.Quote And you do not have to live by such ethics because you believe in Evolution which is survival of the fittest, or survival of those who eliminate competition.
Natural selection has given us ethics; evolution itself isn’t an ethical system it is just the fact of our natural history. And it looks like you only have a strawman version of natural selection in your head, one that you might have copied from morons like Ken Ham for the purpose of denying history.Stuart
Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 15 2013,23:51) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2013,20:28) Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 15 2013,00:45) Stu …. Diversecity in and of itself is what makes up this world we live in …. it is tolerance that is the most demanding requisite,of which our very nature is opposed to… You cannot legislate tolerance… Dictators by nature are in tolerant …. The elixir of the masses in our free western world is liberty of which we have confused with license and for that we will loose our freedom…
theodorej! Long time!I like your statement against ideological totalitarianism.
Unfortunately christianity is exactly that.
How many ways are there to god, for example?
Stuart
Stu … Christianity is a way of life …. The proof that we are awash in confusion over just what christianity is evident by the many versions there are… and… can you believe it …. they all correct in their doctrine because it “says it here in the Bible”….Jesus graced this planet to speak to organized religion and the dangers it imposed and those in charge killed him…. This was part of Gods plan to show us The Way… and… that was to emulate the life of this carpenters son who held to the Law (Torah) NOT the Talmud..Most of Jesus' followers were Jews…
Matthew 16:18-19Stuart
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