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Pierre,
What scripture specifically tells you that the Almighty God created The Word of God and that was the first being? What kind of being was that, anyway?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2012,20:00) Not if it were a translation, but if the English was the original language as well as the manuscripts, then when referring to the Son, it would mean YHWH or Lord Jehovah, or Jehovah, yes.
Let me try to get this straight by using an analogy:We all know that the LORD created the heavens and the earth. Later, the LORD sent His Son Jesus to the earth, and that Son was crucified. But God made this Jesus, who was crucifed, both LORD and Christ.
Kathi, in my little sample sentence, which was originally written in ENGLISH, I refer to Jehovah as “LORD” with all caps. Does the word MEAN “Jehovah”, or “lord”? Which one?
Later, I refer to Jesus as “LORD” with all caps. Does the word MEAN “Jehovah”, or “lord”?
The English word “lord”, even in all caps, and even if I use that word only of Jehovah and Jesus, STILL MEANS “lord”, . Using the word in all caps to refer to Jehovah doesn't all of a sudden make that word MEAN “Jehovah”.
Do you understand this simple concept?
Let's say my personal preference is to cap the “K” in “king” ONLY when it refers to either Jehovah or Jesus, but no one else. So if I talk about “King Jehovah”, “King Jesus”, and “king David”, does the fact that I cap the “K” only when referring to Jehovah and Jesus mean that Jesus IS Jehovah? Of course not.
Do you understand this simple concept?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2012,13:58) Pierre, What scripture specifically tells you that the Almighty God created The Word of God and that was the first being? What kind of being was that, anyway?
Kcan you show me one were it says Christ (the word)was not created
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 16 2012,14:58) Pierre, What scripture specifically tells you that the Almighty God created The Word of God and that was the first being? What kind of being was that, anyway?
Bump for Pierre…please show me in scripture what you claim to be scriptural, thanks.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2012,11:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 16 2012,14:58) Pierre, What scripture specifically tells you that the Almighty God created The Word of God and that was the first being? What kind of being was that, anyway?
Bump for Pierre…please show me in scripture what you claim to be scriptural, thanks.
kCol 1 ;15-21
Pierre,
That verse does not say that the Son is the first creation or even a creation, sorry. Anything else?Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2012,12:51) Pierre,
That verse does not say that the Son is the first creation or even a creation, sorry. Anything else?
nothing else 
Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;Kathi,
Here is another site you can check out.
49 MARIAH (Aramaic). “Lord God” In the Aramaic Peshitta, this was the ‘expression’ used for God
The Aramaic term for Lord comes from Mara, lord or master. When Jesus was called by the people “my Lord” –the Aramaic word was Mar (Matt.8:2;28:44-45). The term Mariah-Lord was substituted for the Hebrew word YHWH (Yahweh) which refers to the LORD God only, but on a few occasions the Messiah is called Mariah (as in Matt.28:45) because he is the highest Lord among men. It was understood among the Aramaic scholars that GOD is the Lord of the Messiah.
Here's some more from Wikipedia:
The Tetragrammaton was written in contrasting Paleo-Hebrew characters in some of the oldest surviving square Aramaic Hebrew texts, and were not read as Adonai (“My Lord”) until after the Rabbinic teachings after Israel went into Babylonian captivity.
This seems to futher support my theory that there wasn't an actual translation of the name YHWH in Aramaic, and so they just inserted the Hebrew letters into the Aramaic text. (You'll remember that they did the same with the LXX.)
The King James version of the Bible translates the Hebrew as “I Am that I Am” and uses it as a proper name for God. The Aramaic Targum Onkelos leaves the phrase untranslated and is so quoted in the Talmud (B. B. 73a[clarification needed]).
Ehyeh is the first-person singular imperfect form of hayah, “to be”. Ehyeh is usually translated “I will be”, since the imperfect tense in Hebrew denotes actions that are not yet completed (e.g. Exodus 3:12, “Certainly I will be [ehyeh] with thee.”).
This part shows that YHWH was left untranslated in this particular Aramaic Targum. It also gives support to the NWT's translation of “I will be” instead of the generally accepted “I am”.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2012,15:14) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2012,12:51) Pierre,
That verse does not say that the Son is the first creation or even a creation, sorry. Anything else? nothing else Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pierre,
Nice try but that speaks about wisdom and we know that God has had wisdom eternally and that which was 'brought forth' had to exist prior to being brought forth in order to have been brought forth.Is that all you have? Nothing?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 18 2012,13:36) Kathi, Here is another site you can check out.
49 MARIAH (Aramaic). “Lord God” In the Aramaic Peshitta, this was the ‘expression’ used for God
The Aramaic term for Lord comes from Mara, lord or master. When Jesus was called by the people “my Lord” –the Aramaic word was Mar (Matt.8:2;28:44-45). The term Mariah-Lord was substituted for the Hebrew word YHWH (Yahweh) which refers to the LORD God only, but on a few occasions the Messiah is called Mariah (as in Matt.28:45) because he is the highest Lord among men. It was understood among the Aramaic scholars that GOD is the Lord of the Messiah.
He was called both because He was both Lord Yahweh Yeshua and Lord Yeshua, both deity and human.That is good that you are looking into this, Mike.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 19 2012,21:06) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2012,15:14) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2012,12:51) Pierre,
That verse does not say that the Son is the first creation or even a creation, sorry. Anything else? nothing else Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pierre,
Nice try but that speaks about wisdom and we know that God has had wisdom eternally and that which was 'brought forth' had to exist prior to being brought forth in order to have been brought forth.Is that all you have? Nothing?
Kbut you never answer my question ,and whatever I quote is not right ,
so here is my question again;
can you show me one scripture were it says Christ (the word)was not created
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2012,21:06) ………..that which was 'brought forth' had to exist prior to being brought forth in order to have been brought forth.
Didn't God “bring forth” the heavens, the earth, and everything in them too?Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2012,21:09) He was called both because He was both Lord Yahweh Yeshua and Lord Yeshua, both deity and human. That is good that you are looking into this, Mike.
I'm not aware of any Greek, Hebrew, Latin, or Aramaic evidence that Jesus was ever called “Lord Yahweh Yeshua”, so it is irresponsible of you to keep claiming it just because you WANT it to be the case.And the reason I keep looking into this is because I want to know the truth of the matter. But why do you suppose I keep finding more and more evidence that “marya” just means “lord”?
Mike,
Just because YOU are not aware of evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Language is complicated, I'm sure you are finding that out.I have shown you the evidence of MarYah (which is not plural and is a compound word of Mar and Yah, the name of YHWH) being something different than just the conjugated form of Mar (marya which is plural).
This is a good article:
Early Nazarenes As attested to by the Talmud, the early Hebrew believers used scriptures that contained the Name.
They used a copy of a gospel written by Matthew in Aramaic. Aquila 128 AD Aquila of Pontus, translated the Old Testament into Greek. He was born in Sinope, Pontus (now Sinop, Turkey). His translation of the Old Testament was so literal that Jews of his time preferred it to the Septuagint version, as did the Judaistic sect of Christians called Ebionites. The remaining fragments of the version may be found in the Hexapla of the Alexandrian theologian Origen. His Greek version contained the Tetragrammaton in archaic Hebrew – i.e. the Paleo script.
Matthew's gospel is generally agreed to have originally been written in Hebrew and contained the Tetragrammaton. (the Divine Name). Copies of this gospel remained among Jewish Christian communities of Israel/Palestine and Syria. Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Clement, Origen, Jerome and Eusebius possessed copies of it and quoted it.
Polycarp of Smyrna early 2nd century made a translation of the Hebrew scriptures now called the Philoxenian. Polycarp was a disciple of the apostle John and therefore would also have used the divine Name.
Origen in AD 245 Produced the 'Hexalpa' using the Hebrew letters for the Tetragrammaton in the Hebrew version and the equivalent letters in the Greek version.
Jerome said that there was an original copy of the “Hebrew” gospel preserved in the library at Caesarea which was collected by the martyr Pamphilus. He copied it and translated into Greek from the Aramaic. He said that ignorant readers mistook the Tetragrammaton (in this text) to be a Greek word “pipi”
The Jewish Talmud and the Tosefta (ancient Jewish writings – t.Shab. 13:5; b.Shab. 116a; j.Shab. 15c), bore statements that there were Hebrew texts (New Testament) that contained the Divine Name.
The Talmud also accused Yeshua of performing miracles by pronouncing the Divine name, therefore giving evidence of the fact that it was used by Yeshua Himself and therefore by His disciples, the apostles. It is therefore logical that if they used the Name in everyday language, they would also have written as they spoke.
from here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki….pendix2
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9655501/Odes-of-Shalome-Odes-Songs-of-Solomon
Number 29…read it and read all! Amazing !!!
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2012,23:27) His Greek version contained the Tetragrammaton in archaic Hebrew – i.e. the Paleo script.
It has long been thought that the NT was written in Greek, with the exception of the Gospel of Matthew. This is from the JW's:Jerome, in the fourth century, wrote the following: “Matthew, who is also Levi, and who from a publican came to be an apostle, first of all composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed. Who translated it after that in Greek is not sufficiently ascertained. Moreover, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected. I also was allowed by the Nazarenes who use this volume in the Syrian city of Beroea to copy it.”
But notice that once again, your source supports my theory that there was no actual Aramaic word for “Jehovah”, and that the Syrians just inserted the Hebrew Paleo “YHWH” into the Aramaic script.
You need to find a case where the Hebrew “YHWH” is inserted into the Aramaic script in reference to Jesus.
(Something BESIDES “marya”, because there is no CREDIBLE source that says “marya” means anything other than “lord”. There is no CREDIBLE source that says “marya” is a conjuntion of “mar” and “Jah”.)
Aramaic writings believed to be from the first century and speak of MarYah:
The Odes of Shalomé
1.Crown
MarYah 8 is on my head like a crown, and I will never be without Him. This crown of truth is plaited upon me; it isrooting Your branches so as to blossom forth in me. This is notlike a thirsty crown that does not bloom; for You live on my head, and have bloomed on me. Your fruits are full and ripe;they are bursting forth with Yeshuati.9
Halleluyah.8 MarYah = the Aramaic expression of the sacred name YHWH. YAH is its poetic abbreviation; in translation it is, “Sovereign Yahweh.” Or “Master Yahweh.” MarYah may refer to either the Heavenly Father or Yahshua the Son.
9 Yeshuati = ‘my salvation’ or ‘my Yahshua’ – a double meaning found throughoutfrom here: http://www.scribd.com/doc….Solomon
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 19 2012,19:29) 8 MarYah = the Aramaic expression of the sacred name YHWH. YAH is its poetic abbreviation; in translation it is, “Sovereign Yahweh.” Or “Master Yahweh.” MarYah may refer to either the Heavenly Father or Yahshua the Son.
LORD = the English expression of the sacred name YHWH. The English word “LORD” may refer to either the Heavenly Father or Yahshua the Son.An “expression” of the sacred name is not the actual sacred name, Kathi. In fact, I've just quoted info to you that said: 49 MARIAH (Aramaic). “Lord God” In the Aramaic Peshitta, this was the ‘expression’ used for God.
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