The Peshitta

[Lightenup]

See what I mean, you are not a serious student, Pierre. Anyone that really wants to know will persevere and go find the info. I made it easy for you but I expect you to put some effort into it to show if you are a serious student or here to waste others time and be lazy, not taking things seriously. I don't expect people to spoon feed me, why do you?

[Lightenup]

To all:
Here is what page 54 and 55 from the intro of the Hebraic Roots Version says about the placement of the name YHWH and how it is objective and not subjective:

The Sacred Name
In the past, sacred name versions of the New Testament have depended largely
on guesswork to determine where “Lord” means YHWH and where “Lord” means
ADON/ADONAI. This is because the Greek New Testament (at least as we have it
today) does not distinguish between the two, having Greek KURIOS for both YHWH and
ADON/ADONAI. However we know from both the Tosefta and Talmuds (ancient Jewish
writings) that certain New Testament manuscripts contained the name of YHWH in their
text (t.Shab. 13:5; b.Shab. 116a; j.Shab. 15c). Now our Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts
preserve for us knowledge of where “Lord” in the NT was YHWH and where it was
ADON/ADONAI. The DuTillet Hebrew manuscript of Matthew repeats the Hebrew
letter YUD two or three times encircled as to mark places where the name of YHWH
should go. The Shem Tob Hebrew version of Matthew has the Hebrew letter HEY
standing alone (and in one place the word HASHEM spelled out) to mark places where
the name of YHWH belongs. The Munster Hebrew text of Matthew actually contains the
name of YHWH spelled out where it belongs. The Old Syriac, Peshitta and Crawford
Aramaic manuscripts of NT books also distinguish between YHWH and
ADON/ADONAI. As a rule103 the Aramaic Peshitta Tanak (Old Testament) renders
EL/ELOAH/ELOHIM with ALAHA; ADONAI/ADON with MAR and YHWH with MARYA. For Example:
Psalm 110:1a Hebrew: YHWH said to my ADON…
Psalm 110:1a Aramaic: MARYA said to my MAR…
This pattern continues through the Aramaic NT as well. These Aramaic manuscripts
have Aramaic MARYA for YHWH and Aramaic MAR (or MARI or MARAN) for
ADON/ADONAI. Now we have objective manuscript evidence to support placement of
the sacred name into the NT text, the era of guesswork is over. The Hebraic Roots
Version will be the first “sacred name” NT to use such objective manuscript evidence to
restore the sacred name to the New Testament.

There is so much more info in that intro to the Hebraic Roots Version. You really ought to skim through it.

[david]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2012,07:35)

David et al, Here is some information of the Hebrew Roots Bible and Hebrew Roots Version: Go to this website and scroll down to the “Hebrew Roots Bible” and click on the link to read it online. Also, the Hebrew Roots Version below it has a very informative intro as to how it was translated. Go to page 54 of the intro and you can read about how they knew where the YHWH went in the NT. http://www.angelfire.com/hi2….es.html

Which hebrew roots version below it? I'm trying to find that intro. Could you provide a direct link?

[david]

Oh, sorry. I never made it to the end of this thread to see. Thanks.

[Lightenup]

David,
There are about 65 pages in the intro to the Hebrew Roots Version that has a lot of good information in it. I'm not sure if you found it or were just seeking what I posted about YHWH.
If you are having trouble finding it, I can't find a direct link. The only way I know to find it is to go here: http://www.angelfire.com/hi2….es.html
Then scroll down till you see a red Hebraic Roots Bible, then right below it is the Hebraic Roots Version Scriptures. Click on the words “Into In PDF Format” and then look at your download folder to find it. Open it up and the info above about YHWH is on page 54.

Also, David, I posted this info in the other thread but I wanted to make sure you saw this. It gives a great deal of evidence for an Aramaic written original NT.

This resource is very interesting. It is in a PDF form and I can't copy and paste from it. You can find it by going to this google search link and clicking on the fourth option “Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek.”

https://www.google.com/search?….bih=821

Within chapter 6 regarding the historical (external proofs), you can find part of this quote from Josephus about Greek not being his own tongue. You can read his writings here:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/complete.ii.xxi.xi.html

For those of my own nation freely acknowledge that I far exceed them in the learning belonging to Jews; I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understand the elements of the Greek language, although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own tongue, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness; for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations, and so adorn their discourses with the smoothness of their periods; because they look upon this sort of accomplishment as common, not only to all sorts of free-men, but to as many of the servants as please to learn them. But they give him the testimony of being a wise man who is fully acquainted with our laws, and is able to interpret their meaning; on which account, as there have been many who have done their endeavors with great patience to obtain this learning, there have yet hardly been so many as two or three that have succeeded therein, who were immediately well rewarded for their pains.

I encourage you to read the PDF publication because it is very thorough.

I'm glad you are interested in this also!

[mikeboll64]

Kathi,

I read that the epistles were not a part of the original Aramaic NT. Have you found information to the same effect?

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike,
I know that there is an Aramaic interlinear of the whole NT through Bible.cc. I'm not sure if it is all from the same manuscript or not.

[mikeboll64]

Hi Kathi,

This is what I read on Wikipedia about it:

Of the New Testament, attempts at translation must have been made very early, and among the ancient versions of New Testament Scripture the Syriac in all likelihood is the earliest. It was at Antioch, the capital of Syria, that the disciples of Christ were first called Christians, and it seemed natural that the first translation of the Christian Scriptures should have been made there. The tendency of recent research, however, goes to show that Edessa, the literary capital, was more likely the place.

If we could accept the somewhat obscure statement of Eusebius[4] that Hegesippus “made some quotations from the Gospel according to the Hebrews and from the Syriac Gospel,” we should have a reference to a Syriac New Testament as early as 160-80 AD, the time of that Hebrew Christian writer. One thing is certain, that the earliest New Testament of the Syriac church lacked not only the Antilegomena – 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude, and the Apocalypse – but the whole of the Catholic Epistles. These were at a later date translated and received into the Syriac Canon of the New Testament, but the quotations of the early Syrian Fathers take no notice of these New Testament books.

According to this information, the entire Aramaic NT was an early TRANSLATION, and the earliest Syriac translations did not contain any of the epistles.

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Here is more info:
http://aramaicnt.com/articles.htm

[mikeboll64]

And what do you say about the info I posted?

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Go to this link

http://aramaicnt.com/articles.htm

Then read this article, it talks about the missing epistles, etc. and should bring more complete understanding to what is being said in the one you posted:

“Does the Peshitta stem from the Old Syriac?”

[mikeboll64]

I read it.  It speaks about a translation that was made in Aramaic in 175 AD, in which the four gospels were mixed together as one.

It sheds no light on the points in question, nor does it offer any proof to negate the things I posted on the previous page of this thread.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,21:49)

As a rule103 the Aramaic Peshitta Tanak (Old Testament) renders EL/ELOAH/ELOHIM with ALAHA; ADONAI/ADON with MAR and YHWH with MARYA. For Example: Psalm 110:1a Hebrew: YHWH said to my ADON… Psalm 110:1a Aramaic: MARYA said to my MAR… This pattern continues through the Aramaic NT as well.

Kathi,

This has nothing to do with the NAME “Jehovah” at all. This has more to do with “adon” versus “adonay” in the Hebrew OT.

It is claimed that the emphatic form, “adonay”, ALWAYS refers to Jehovah, but you and I know that is not true.

So what you're really saying is that sometimes, Jesus is referred to as “adonay” instead of “adon”, and these translators THINK it must mean “Jehovah”, and translate it as such.

I have much more investigating to do, but according to the Aramaic dictionary, “marya” does not MEAN “Jehovah”, nor is it the name “Jehovah”. The word is one of many forms of “lord” – nothing more.

[mikeboll64]

Here is the info from the site I mentioned:

Word: 0yrmb
Lexeme: 0yrm
Root: 0rm
Word Number: 12364
Meaning: lord
Pronunciation: (Eastern) B'MaRYaA
(Western) B'MoRYoA
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Person:  
Number: Singular
State: Emphatic

This site also lists a concordance where the word is used in a few scriptures. One of the scriptures listed where this form is used is Acts 5:14:

NIV
Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And those who were believing in THE LORD JEHOVAH were added all the more, multitudes of men and women,

You can see that the word actually MEANS “lord”, and is written that way in the Greek, and most English translations. It seems your new favorite translation has taken it upon themselves to ADD the name “Jehovah” AFTER the actual word that is really there: “lord”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,21:49)

The Munster Hebrew text of Matthew actually contains the name of YHWH spelled out where it belongs.

From Wiki:

Sebastian Münster's Matthew, 1537

The Münster Matthew is printed version of the Gospel of Matthew, written in the Hebrew language published by Sebastian Münster in 1537 and dedicated to King Henry VIII of England. He had received the text from Spanish Jews he had converted to Christianity in the 1530s. Apparently, these Jews had been using the text to understand the Christian religion in order to counter it. Münster felt that the text was defective, and set about reworking it. The original manuscript he received no longer exists; only his printed reworking of it survives, and it closely resembles the Du Tillet Matthew. Because the places where Münster changed the text is unknown, this text can be difficult to use for textual criticism.

I'm still trying to find a Munster interlinear, to find out if Jesus is ever the one called “YHWH” in his rendition. But I am now tired. I'll look later.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2012,21:02)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,21:49) As a rule103 the Aramaic Peshitta Tanak (Old Testament) renders EL/ELOAH/ELOHIM with ALAHA; ADONAI/ADON with MAR and YHWH with MARYA. For Example: Psalm 110:1a Hebrew: YHWH said to my ADON… Psalm 110:1a Aramaic: MARYA said to my MAR… This pattern continues through the Aramaic NT as well. Kathi, This has nothing to do with the NAME “Jehovah” at all.  This has more to do with “adon” versus “adonay” in the Hebrew OT. It is claimed that the emphatic form, “adonay”, ALWAYS refers to Jehovah, but you and I know that is not true. So what you're really saying is that sometimes, Jesus is referred to as “adonay” instead of “adon”, and these translators THINK it must mean “Jehovah”, and translate it as such. I have much more investigating to do, but according to the Aramaic dictionary, “marya” does not MEAN “Jehovah”, nor is it the name “Jehovah”.  The word is one of many forms of “lord” – nothing more.

Mike,
Regarding MarYah:

The question is, “do we have the goods?—does the Peshitta Aramaic NT clear up this matter about the divinity of Yeshua (Jesus)?” The answer is, Yes—as you shall see in the following. First, some definitions.
Mar—Aramaic meaning Master/Lord. Mari means 'my Lord'.
Adon—Hebrew meaning Lord. Adonai means 'my Lord'.
YHVH—(Yahweh) Hebrew name of God used throughout the Tanakh (Old Testament) over 6500 times. This is the eternal, memorial name of God.
Yah—short version of YHVH (Yahweh) used in “hallelu-Yah (praise Yah)” and in a number of verses like Exodus 15:2 (Yah is my strength and song), Exodus 17:16, Isaiah 12:2, 38:11, Psalms 68:19, 77:12, 89:9, 94:7 and many more. Yah was also appended as the last part of the name for kings and prophets like Elijah (EliYah, my God is Yah), king Hezekiah (KhizqiYah, Yah has strengthened), etc.
MarYah—contraction of Mar and Yah, meaning 'Master/Lord Yah'. When the Rabbis translated the Tanakh (Old Testament) to Aramaic—circa 50 BC to 50 AD—they used MarYah in all 6500+ places where YHVH was used in the original Hebrew. They needed to translate the Bible to Aramaic because during the Babylonian captivity people's first language became Aramaic, the language of the lands where they were taken. Also, only part of the captives returned after the 70 years, with the rest remaining in lands where Aramaic was the language. MarYah is used extensively throughout the Peshitta Aramaic NT.

From https://www.google.com/search?….refox-a
(seventh option down)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2012,23:31)

MarYah—contraction of Mar and Yah, meaning 'Master/Lord Yah'. When the Rabbis translated the Tanakh (Old Testament) to Aramaic—circa 50 BC to 50 AD—they used MarYah in all 6500+ places where YHVH was used in the original Hebrew.

Can you show me from an unbiased Aramaic dictionary that “marya” means “the Lord Jehovah”? The one I linked you to says the word simply means “lord”.

Where is your proof?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2012,23:31)

The question is, “do we have the goods?—does the Peshitta Aramaic NT clear up this matter about the divinity of Yeshua (Jesus)?” The answer is, Yes—as you shall see in the following.

Btw, I KNEW right from the start that this “Aramaic is the REAL NT” stuff had to be centered around “Jesus is God” people trying their best to prove a lie.  

I'll wait for the official definition of the word “marya”.  (Just because the letters “ya” are in the word doesn't mean it MEANS “Jah”, or “Jehovah”.

This is from another Aramaic dictionary site:
mry, mryʾ (mārē, māryā, mārā) n.m. master
 

 1 master Com. –(a) human Com. –(b) divine Com. (b.1) ܡܵܪܵܐ܂ ܡܵܪܝܵܐ : the Lord, God Syr. (b.2) ܡܵܪܝ : my Lord, usually in reference to Jesus Syr.
 2 owner Com. –(a) (of a text) author Syr.
 3 title of respect Com. –(a) ܡܵܪܝ : clerical title Syr. –(b) w. first pers. suffix (מר٠ מור ) in addressing a man : sir JBA. –© patrician Syr. –(d) pl.: neighbors Syr.
 4 in the construct state as the head of many compound expressions Com. –(a) chief of … Com. –(b) owner of … Com. –© master of (i.e. specialist in) … Com. –(d) an element of many PN's JBA.
 5 an angelic order Syr.

There is NOTHING about the name “Jah”, or any reference to Jehovah at all.

[mikeboll64]

Kathi,

Check out the Interlinear NT part of this site.  I can't find “Jehovah” in any of the scriptures you posted from the Aramaic Bible.

[Lightenup]

Mike,
On that site, LORD (all caps), appears where YHWH would go.

[Author]

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