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Kathi,
Since you are talking with David about this subject again, I thought you might like to read this research into the “Mar Yah” claims.
It seems this guy has found what I already showed you on this thread…….. plus a lot more. Also, you'll see the verse where Phillip is called “marya” in the NT. (Remember, we talked about that before?)
You'll also find this quote:
In an article entitled, “Definitions of MARYAH (ayrm) and Related Terms” compiled by Andrew Gabriel Roth, the author quotes Jennings, but he adds in parenthesis (Amar MarYah l'mari) right before “The LORD”. There is no note from the author stating the words in the parenthesis are his, not Jennings’. Jennings make no reference to “MarYah” in his lexicon. Notice, also, that Jennings uses the words “The LORD”, “Lord of all” and “one Lord”, not “Lord Yah”, “Lord Yah of all” and “one Lord Yah”.
Hmmmm………. was your Mr. Roth trying to pull a fast one on us by getting us to think the expert source he quoted also believes in “MarYah”, when he really doesn't?
Anyway, give it a read. All his claims are supported by facts.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 17 2012,10:13) Mike,
They worhip one Almighty God as the Father, together with His Son and the Holy Spirit as a compound unity.
That is 3 persons, or in your case 2 persons.i.e., You worship 2 and Trihards worship 3.
Whereas, we are instructed to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent. And who instructed us? Jesus did.
Ha. But only one is THE TRUE Theos.
The other is qualitatively theos along with angels, and counsels that include men.You deny the son when you say he is God/YHWH. Plain as that.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 17 2013,11:19) Hmmm….let's count:
1. the only true God
2. Jesus Christ, the only Begotten GodThat's two!
LU,“only begotten” is a relationship between God and the Son being spoken of.
“god” is a word with many definitions.So you are claiming Jesus is some meaning of god that has a some type of begotten relationship to the one true God. You clearly have unwritten context.
kerwin
Jesus is theos in nature just as His Father is. Heb 1:3
John the Baptist was human in nature just as his father was.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2013,19:16) Kathi, Since you are talking with David about this subject again, I thought you might like to read this research into the “Mar Yah” claims.
It seems this guy has found what I already showed you on this thread…….. plus a lot more. Also, you'll see the verse where Phillip is called “marya” in the NT. (Remember, we talked about that before?)
You'll also find this quote:
In an article entitled, “Definitions of MARYAH (ayrm) and Related Terms” compiled by Andrew Gabriel Roth, the author quotes Jennings, but he adds in parenthesis (Amar MarYah l'mari) right before “The LORD”. There is no note from the author stating the words in the parenthesis are his, not Jennings’. Jennings make no reference to “MarYah” in his lexicon. Notice, also, that Jennings uses the words “The LORD”, “Lord of all” and “one Lord”, not “Lord Yah”, “Lord Yah of all” and “one Lord Yah”.
Hmmmm………. was your Mr. Roth trying to pull a fast one on us by getting us to think the expert source he quoted also believes in “MarYah”, when he really doesn't?
Anyway, give it a read. All his claims are supported by facts.
Mike,
Neither one of them address that MYRA is an acronym. They perhaps were unaware of that.Yeah, but I already addressed that, right?
I could make an acronym out of “A D O N A I”, but it wouldn't make the word stop being simply the emphatic form of “adon” – would it?
The fact that some priest poetically made “mrya” into an acronym at some point in history is not exactly “proof” of anything, now is it?
Nor does his acronym say one thing at all about Jesus BEING Jehovah. Nor does it explain why the word was used of Phillip.
Kathi,
Despite what Gabriel Roth claims, all lexicon evidence from as far back as we can look says that “mrya” is simply the emphatic form for the Aramaic word for “lord”. Similarly, the Hebrew word “adonay” is simply the emphatic form of the Hebrew word for “lord”.
And just as the Hebrews stopped saying the Divine Name, and said “Lord” instead, the Aramaic translation followed suit.
And the word “adonay” is GENERALLY used in scripture only of Jehovah – but is once or twice used of people other than Jehovah, like Jesus and Isaiah.
Similarly, the word “marya” is GENERALLY used in scripture only of Jehovah – but is once or twice used of people other than Jehovah, like Jesus and Phillip. (Perhaps Isaiah too. We would have to see what Aramaic form of “mar” was used in Isaiah 21:8 in the Peshitta.)
But at any rate, unless Isaiah and Phillip are ALSO Jehovah, your “Mar Yah” claim has been refuted.
Mike,
The word MYRA is used of Jesus quite a lot, not just once or twice. I don't know where it is used of Isaiah or Phillip. Anyway, I am going by what a native Aramaic speaker that owns Peshitta.org and is making an Aramaic interlinear says. I take his word over yours since you don't really know anything much about the Aramaic language. He says that MYRA is not the emphatic 'Lord' and the lexicon is wrong about that. I will continue to look into this and haven't contacted that Rabbi yet.Quote (Lightenup @ May 19 2013,11:23) kerwin Jesus is theos in nature just as His Father is. Heb 1:3
John the Baptist was human in nature just as his father was.
LU,You are confusing the inward nature with the outward nature as Jesus' outward nature is clearly human, a descendent of David.
Kerwin,
Yes, Kerwin, Jesus was fully human but He was also fully God as the only begotten God while He was fully human. Before He became flesh, His nature was the exact nature as the Father. Remember the analogy of the prince and the pauper. The prince was 100% royalty first then he became a pauper by choice yet remained 100 % royalty.Quote (Lightenup @ May 21 2013,01:30) Kerwin,
Yes, Kerwin, Jesus was fully human but He was also fully God as the only begotten God while He was fully human. Before He became flesh, His nature was the exact nature as the Father. Remember the analogy of the prince and the pauper. The prince was 100% royalty first then he became a pauper by choice yet remained 100 % royalty.
LU,The prince was only acting like a commoner. You cannot be 100% an commoner and 100% a royal as the two things are mutually exclusive. So is being 100% a man and 100% God. Why have you chosen to believe that since I doubt you would believe a living creature was 100% lamb and 100% wolf?
Kerwin,
Yes you can have royal blood in you but live the life of a commoner if you choose. Jesus, the only begotten theos can't stop being the only begotten theos and then be something different instead. He had to become something different while still being the only begotten theos. You can't stop being what you are inherently, the only begotten theos in His case. The most He could do was empty Himself of whatever it was that allowed Him to live life in the flesh. I don't know what He gave up because the Bible doesn't say specifically. Some say that He had to give up His privileges that an only begotten theos would receive, His attributes, and possible His memory. I accept this by faith, the belief that He was 100% theos and 100% man because I believe the scriptures teach that Jesus was the only begotten theos who was with God, His Father in the beginning and that He was one with the Father; represented Himself and the Father as the 'Word of Jehovah' or the 'Angel of Jehovah' and has a Father/Son relationship with God His Father, and became flesh to fulfill the law and be our kinsman redeemer and die for our sins..Quote (Lightenup @ May 21 2013,04:09) Kerwin,
Yes you can have royal blood in you but live the life of a commoner if you choose. Jesus, the only begotten theos can't stop being the only begotten theos and then be something different instead. He had to become something different while still being the only begotten theos. You can't stop being what you are inherently, the only begotten theos in His case. The most He could do was empty Himself of whatever it was that allowed Him to live life in the flesh. I don't know what He gave up because the Bible doesn't say specifically. Some say that He had to give up His privileges that an only begotten theos would receive, His attributes, and possible His memory. I accept this by faith, the belief that He was 100% theos and 100% man because I believe the scriptures teach that Jesus was the only begotten theos who was with God, His Father in the beginning and that He was one with the Father; represented Himself and the Father as the 'Word of Jehovah' or the 'Angel of Jehovah' and has a Father/Son relationship with God His Father, and became flesh to fulfill the law and be our kinsman redeemer and die for our sins..
LU,Quote Yes you can have royal blood in you but live the life of a commoner if you choose. I agree with these words but not the claim that the same person, who is intrinsically royal can also be intrinsically commoner at the same time.
God does not have a body, much less blood, as bodies are created. God does have his Spirit through which he dwells in those that believe. Jesus is the ultimate believer, the one God dwells in fully. Jesus, a human being, has God dwell in him via his Spirit. I am claiming Jesus is 100% man, God is 100% God, and that the two work together as one.
Kerwin,
Quote I agree with these words but not the claim that the same person, who is intrinsically royal can also be intrinsically commoner at the same time. In the analogy, in the right kingdom, the person is inherently a man of royalty. In a completely different kingdom, the same person is not a person who is inherently a man of royalty in that country for he is a commoner since he does not have the royal blood in him that the royals in that country have. Read this about what Jesus says:
John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”you said:
Quote God does not have a body, much less blood, as bodies are created.
Yes, God the Father and the only begotten God do not have a body, much less blood, as bodies are created. That is why the only begotten God had to be incarnated into a created body in order to have blood which He could shed for the remission of the sins of all and in order to walk with the limits of flesh so He could be like us but be tempted and still fulfill the law.you said:
Quote I am claiming Jesus is 100% man, God is 100% God, and that the two work together as one. If Jesus is only a man then who did Saul meet on the road to Damascus that called Saul to be an apostle that said He was Jesus of Nazareth?
Acts 22
6“As I was on my way and drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from heaven suddenly shone around me. 7And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ 8And I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.’ 9Now those who were with me saw the light but did not understandb the voice of the one who was speaking to me. 10And I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Rise, and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.’ 11And since I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.12“And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, 13came to me, and standing by me said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that very hour I received my sight and saw him. 14And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One and to hear a voice from his mouth; 15for you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
17“When I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, I fell into a trance 18and saw him saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about me.’ 19And I said, ‘Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in you. 20And when the blood of Stephen your witness was being shed, I myself was standing by and approving and watching over the garments of those who killed him.’ 21And he said to me, ‘Go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”
LU,
The Queen of England is still the Queen of England even when she visits the United States.
Paul was addressed by the man Jesus Christ, whom is mediator between God and humanity. I am not sure while you think it could be otherwise.
Jesus of Nazareth is that human.
Kerwin,
you said:
Quote Jesus of Nazareth is that human. Clearly Paul is debunking your teaching about Jesus being merely a human being. He is also speaking very sternly about those that teach a different gospel, see the words in red:
1Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothers and sisters with me,
To the churches in Galatia:
3Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
No Other Gospel
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Paul Called by God
11I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
LU,
Quote 1Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothers and sisters with me, If a man comes and teaches a word that is not from God that word is from the man, which is the flesh.
If a man comes and teaches a word that is from God then it is not from a man but it is from God.
If that that man is Paul it comes from God, If that man is Jesus it comes from God.
The word Paul writes is not from sinful humanity, or from sinful man, but it is sent by both Jesus King and Jehovah in partnership.
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