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Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,20:38) Hi 2Besee, Are you suggesting that they were not “water baptized” correctly in this verse…
'He said unto them, Have ye received the HolySpirit since ye believed? And
they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any HolySpirit.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.(“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the HolySpirit.” (Mark 1:8))
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people,
that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized (with the HolySpirit) in the name of
the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the HolySpirit
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
2Besee, will you please address this post?abe,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote Rom.8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Abe,
I forgot to get back to you on this one. I understand why you gave this scripture. (i think)
So your question would be;
why would the 144,000 be the only first fruits, (end time christians) when Paul says that he one of the first fruits also?Well my answer is that all who take part in the 1st resurrection are first fruits. Simply because there are two resurrections.
1. 1st resurrection at the 2nd coming of Christ.
2. 2nd resurrection after the thousand years.Paul would be of the first resurrection.
But of all the firstfruits there are types of firstfruits.James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
but the 144,000 are also called firstfruits. So we have to discern that these firstfruits, are separate from the other firstfruits, because there are only 144,000 of these kind of firstfruits. We know the rest of the firstfruits come straight after.
The first fruits who are named after the 12 tribes of Israel cannot be Israel alone. Because it says that there is no distinction between Jew, nor Greek
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Romans 3:26 for ye are allt he children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Romans 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there isneither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:29 And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise.So whether you are a Jew or Greek, it doesn't matter, for all who die in Christ will take part in the first resurrection together. They will all be saints. All brethren. Same reward. But those who do not take part in the 1st resurrection (the survivors of the great tribulation) are mentioned by their nationalities. Now there is distinction between Jew or Greek. Why? Because the Israelites who are brought back in the flesh are the only ones entitled to live in the kingdom. The rest can come visit and learn, but cannot live there. That is the difference. The Israelites will teach the outside nations.
2besee,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote These are Hebrews from the twelve tribes of Israel – not Gentiles. 'And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Reuben,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Gad,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Asher,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Naph'tali,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Manas'seh,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Simeon,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Levi,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Is'sachar,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Zeb'ulun,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Joseph,
twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Benjamin.'
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Quote So, have we established now that.. - -144000 are from the tribes of Israel – listed tribe by tribe.
No 2Besse,We have not established that the 144,000 who are named after the 12 tribes of Israel are Jews only.
Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.
Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Quote -There is a large crowd separate too numerous to count and these are Gentiles.
No, these are the ones separate from the 144,000. These come after them. There are only 144,000 standing on Mt Zion with Christ when he returns. It says that.Quote (journey42 @ April 18 2013,06:09) abe,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote Rom.8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Abe,
I forgot to get back to you on this one. I understand why you gave this scripture. (i think)
So your question would be;
why would the 144,000 be the only first fruits, (end time christians) when Paul says that he one of the first fruits also?Well my answer is that all who take part in the 1st resurrection are first fruits. Simply because there are two resurrections.
1. 1st resurrection at the 2nd coming of Christ.
2. 2nd resurrection after the thousand years.Paul would be of the first resurrection.
But of all the firstfruits there are types of firstfruits.James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
but the 144,000 are also called firstfruits. So we have to discern that these firstfruits, are separate from the other firstfruits, because there are only 144,000 of these kind of firstfruits. We know the rest of the firstfruits come straight after.
The first fruits who are named after the 12 tribes of Israel cannot be Israel alone. Because it says that there is no distinction between Jew, nor Greek
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Romans 3:26 for ye are allt he children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Romans 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there isneither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:29 And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise.So whether you are a Jew or Greek, it doesn't matter, for all who die in Christ will take part in the first resurrection together. They will all be saints. All brethren. Same reward. But those who do not take part in the 1st resurrection (the survivors of the great tribulation) are mentioned by their nationalities. Now there is distinction between Jew or Greek. Why? Because the Israelites who are brought back in the flesh are the only ones entitled to live in the kingdom. The rest can come visit and learn, but cannot live there. That is the difference. The Israelites will teach the outside nations.
Hi J42,(Quote)
Well my answer is that all who take part in the 1st resurrection are first fruits. Simply because there are two resurrections.1. 1st resurrection at the 2nd coming of Christ.
2. 2nd resurrection after the thousand years.
Christ was resurrected.
1Cor.15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
Rom.8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the First fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
You Missed the FIRST Resurrection.
Peace sister.
Quote (journey42 @ April 19 2013,00:10) Quote (Resting @ April 18 2013,08:26) Quote Thousands upon thousands of believers of the OT will be saved at the judgment, but they were never required to obey the doctrine of the Apostles to enter the Kingdom of God. Res.
What judgement are you talking about? The first or the second?
There are two resurrections.
1. The first resurrection at Christ's second coming
2. The second resurrection after the millennium.Only those who died after Christ was risen can take part in the first resurrection.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Those that died before Christ under the old covenant cannot take part in the first resurrection.
Not even John the baptist will be in the first resurrection, for he died under the law.Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
John the baptist was the greatest according to Christ, of all the men born on this earth, yet whoever is least in the kingdom is greater than John the baptist.
John the baptist will be in the kingdom during the millennium, but he will be brought back in the FLESH.
Same as Job. He will be brought back in the FLESH.
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.
Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.Israelites only will be brought back in the flesh. Israelites that died after the new covenant will be in the first resurrection, spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
So, the saints who will be spirit during the millennium, will be ruling over the flesh Israelites in the kingdom. The flesh Israelites under the old law now have to come through Christ also. New law. New covenant, even for them.
No.Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
There is no second chance for Israel of the flesh.
Abraham will be in the first resurrection because he heard Gods voice and overcame, but I could not say the same for Lot.
plus Heb.ch 11 says he will be made perfect with the NT saints.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.You theory is just another theory unsubstantiated by scripture.
Res.
Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2013,00:21) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,20:38) Hi 2Besee, Are you suggesting that they were not “water baptized” correctly in this verse…
'He said unto them, Have ye received the HolySpirit since ye believed? And
they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any HolySpirit.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.(“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the HolySpirit.” (Mark 1:8))
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people,
that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized (with the HolySpirit) in the name of
the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the HolySpirit
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
2Besee, will you please address this post?
There is only one receiving of the Holy Spirit at one time taught in the book of Acts and they were always filled with it when they received it.Res.
Journey,
Quote 1. 1st resurrection at the 2nd coming of Christ. You know the stories. People die and go to heaven. Well, I believe that. People who have died and come back have SEEN things and I BELIEVE some of those testimonies.
Look what Jesus says:
Jesus the Resurrection and the Life
17 When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about fifteen stadia away, 19 and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them about their brother. 20 As soon as Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, while Mary stayed at home.
21 Martha told Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever you ask of God, he will give it to you.”
23 Jesus told her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha told him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”
25 Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The person who believes in me, even though he dies, will live. 26 Indeed, everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe that?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she told him. “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who was to come into the world.”
Quote 2. 2nd resurrection after the thousand years. The 2nd resurrection of all of the dead is at the second and soon coming of the Lord.
'And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.'
Matthew 24:14.Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,13:02) Quote (2besee @ April 18 2013,09:35) Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,01:32) Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,21:26) Wakeup,
If I may…Quote THE UNBABTISED MAN STOOD FAST,REFUSED THE MARK UNTO DEATH. Augustine, 419 AD – “Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, DIE FOR THE CONFESSION OF CHRIST – it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, `If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven,’ made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, `Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven’”
Quote THE BABTISED MAN COULD NOT TAKE THE PRESSURE,
AND BECAUSE HE LOVED HIS FAMILY SO MUCH,HE HAD TO TAKE THE MARK,SO THEY COULD HAVE FOOD TO EAT.Firstly, I do not believe that the mark is literal, but – going with your story – God knows the heart of man, and so God is the judge.
If that person took some literal mark out of love for his family – so they would not starve to death – then, that is love.
God knows the intentions of a man.
If the mark is spiritual, which I believe it is – then these verses would apply:
Hebrews 6:4-9.
'It is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.
For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.'Hebrews 10:27-31.
'If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?
For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.'Makes more sense for a spiritual mark, don't you think?
Anyway, will let Resting answer your questions.
2Besee.If the mark of the beast is not literal;
perhaps you could tell me what it is.wakeup.
Wakeup:
Forehead = Mind
With or without actions Right Hand)The law was written on our hearts and Jesus said that not a dot of the law will pass away but instead the law became harder because it is now a matter of ones thoughts (mind) as well as actions (right hand).
Rev 12
17The dragon became angry with the woman and went away to do battle against the rest of her children, the ones who keep God's commandments and hold on to the testimony about Jesus. 18Then the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.
The dragon is the Devil.
This is recapitulated (retold in a different way) in Rev 14… The beast is the dragon (The Devil)Rev 14
9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying in a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or his hand 10will drink the wine of God’s wrath, which has been poured undiluted into the cup of his anger. He will be tortured with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb. 11The smoke from their torture goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” (They are alive on earth in torture)
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to their faithfulness in Jesus:
13I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this:
How blessed are the dead,
that is, those who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit.
“Let them rest from their labors,
for their actions follow them.”Commandments – faith – and actions.
This is the way that I am seeing it.
Thank you Besee.Thats the sda teachings.
1.How would you buy, or sell with that mark?
2.How would an atheist buy or sell,for he does not believe in anything spiritual?
3. How would that mark add up to 666? for it is a number of one man.wakeup.
Many say that the mark, and the reference to buying and selling, regards ancient Rome and the Emperors.
Perhaps they are right – I do not know.
Or maybe BOTH views are correct.
A literal fulfillment in the past, and a spiritual fulfillment today.Malachi 3:16-18
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with one another; the LORD heeded and heard them, and a book of remembrance was written before him of those who feared the LORD and thought on his name. “They shall be mine, says the LORD of hosts, my special possession on the day when I act, and I will spare them as a man spares his son who serves him. Then once more you shall distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve him.Whatever it is, God will lead those who trust in Him.
Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2013,02:21) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,20:38) Hi 2Besee, Are you suggesting that they were not “water baptized” correctly in this verse…
'He said unto them, Have ye received the HolySpirit since ye believed? And
they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any HolySpirit.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.(“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the HolySpirit.” (Mark 1:8))
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people,
that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized (with the HolySpirit) in the name of
the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the HolySpirit
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
2Besee, will you please address this post?The reason you are asking the question is because you wish to mislead people into NOT being water baptized, and I will not have a part in your twisting of the truth.
I have given you “”CLEAR”” scriptures regarding water baptism and the command and the importance of water baptism for both the Jew and the Gentile, and you turn a blind eye to those scriptures.
Quote (2besee @ April 19 2013,09:47) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2013,02:21) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,20:38) Hi 2Besee, Are you suggesting that they were not “water baptized” correctly in this verse…
'He said unto them, Have ye received the HolySpirit since ye believed? And
they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any HolySpirit.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.(“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the HolySpirit.” (Mark 1:8))
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people,
that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized (with the HolySpirit) in the name of
the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the HolySpirit
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6)God bless
Ed J
2Besee, will you please address this post?The reason you are asking the question is because you wish to mislead people into NOT being water baptized, and I will not have a part in your twisting of the truth.
I have given you “”CLEAR”” scriptures regarding water baptism and the command and the importance of water baptism for both the Jew and the Gentile, and you turn a blind eye to those scriptures.
Hi 2Besee,My point is: Being baptized “in Jesus' name” is not 'water baptism', as you are assuming.
That's why you are turning a blind eye to both my question AND this scripture. The errors
that people most make – is in trying to change a spiritual truth into physical understanding.
Baptizing in Jesus' name is to baptized with God's HolySpirit!“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things
that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak,
not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
but which the HolySpirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:12-14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote What judgement are you talking about? The first or the second?
Again, which judgement are you speaking of? Are you capable of answering this question?Quote John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Christ said this. Are you disagreeing? You say, yes the others can come through without him. This is the new law. It says NO MAN can come to the Father but through me.Quote John the baptist will be in the kingdom during the millennium, but he will be brought back in the FLESH. Same as Job. He will be brought back in the FLESH.
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
So according to you, being bought back in the flesh is the same as being bought back in the spirit? You cannot see the difference?Quote Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.
Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.They didn't teach you this in bible school did they? What did they tell you? That this is symbolic? Probably not, they probably did not even mention this scripture.
Quote Israelites only will be brought back in the flesh. Israelites that died after the new covenant will be in the first resurrection, spirit. You don't get it. If you died under the old covenant, you still have to come through Christ. Hence why we have the millennium. That's their opportunity. They still receive the promise, BUT NOT FIRST.
Quote So, the saints who will be spirit during the millennium, will be ruling over the flesh Israelites in the kingdom. The flesh Israelites under the old law now have to come through Christ also. New law. New covenant, even for them. Quote Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. They all striving for the same thing. You do not know God's plan, but willing to rebuke the truth. Scriptures given to you. You have a bible, so why don't you read it. It seems you are too busy arguing, than actually searching.
Quote You theory is just another theory unsubstantiated by scripture.
I gave you scripture. Typical comment from your type. All talk and no knowledge.Quote (abe @ April 19 2013,03:46) Quote (journey42 @ April 18 2013,06:09) Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,15:40) Quote Rom.8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Abe,
I forgot to get back to you on this one. I understand why you gave this scripture. (i think)
So your question would be;
why would the 144,000 be the only first fruits, (end time christians) when Paul says that he one of the first fruits also?Well my answer is that all who take part in the 1st resurrection are first fruits. Simply because there are two resurrections.
1. 1st resurrection at the 2nd coming of Christ.
2. 2nd resurrection after the thousand years.Paul would be of the first resurrection.
But of all the firstfruits there are types of firstfruits.James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
but the 144,000 are also called firstfruits. So we have to discern that these firstfruits, are separate from the other firstfruits, because there are only 144,000 of these kind of firstfruits. We know the rest of the firstfruits come straight after.
The first fruits who are named after the 12 tribes of Israel cannot be Israel alone. Because it says that there is no distinction between Jew, nor Greek
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Romans 3:26 for ye are allt he children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Romans 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there isneither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:29 And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise.So whether you are a Jew or Greek, it doesn't matter, for all who die in Christ will take part in the first resurrection together. They will all be saints. All brethren. Same reward. But those who do not take part in the 1st resurrection (the survivors of the great tribulation) are mentioned by their nationalities. Now there is distinction between Jew or Greek. Why? Because the Israelites who are brought back in the flesh are the only ones entitled to live in the kingdom. The rest can come visit and learn, but cannot live there. That is the difference. The Israelites will teach the outside nations.
Hi J42,(Quote)
Well my answer is that all who take part in the 1st resurrection are first fruits. Simply because there are two resurrections.1. 1st resurrection at the 2nd coming of Christ.
2. 2nd resurrection after the thousand years.
Christ was resurrected.
1Cor.15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
Rom.8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the First fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
You Missed the FIRST Resurrection.
Peace sister.
Abe I don't know what you are talking about.The first resurrection has not come yet.
Quote (journey42 @ April 19 2013,11:46) Quote What judgement are you talking about? The first or the second?
Again, which judgement are you speaking of? Are you capable of answering this question?Quote John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Christ said this. Are you disagreeing? You say, yes the others can come through without him. This is the new law. It says NO MAN can come to the Father but through me.Quote John the baptist will be in the kingdom during the millennium, but he will be brought back in the FLESH. Same as Job. He will be brought back in the FLESH.
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
So according to you, being bought back in the flesh is the same as being bought back in the spirit? You cannot see the difference?Quote Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.
Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.They didn't teach you this in bible school did they? What did they tell you? That this is symbolic? Probably not, they probably did not even mention this scripture.
Quote Israelites only will be brought back in the flesh. Israelites that died after the new covenant will be in the first resurrection, spirit. You don't get it. If you died under the old covenant, you still have to come through Christ. Hence why we have the millennium. That's their opportunity. They still receive the promise, BUT NOT FIRST.
Quote So, the saints who will be spirit during the millennium, will be ruling over the flesh Israelites in the kingdom. The flesh Israelites under the old law now have to come through Christ also. New law. New covenant, even for them. Quote Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. They all striving for the same thing. You do not know God's plan, but willing to rebuke the truth. Scriptures given to you. You have a bible, so why don't you read it. It seems you are too busy arguing, than actually searching.
Quote You theory is just another theory unsubstantiated by scripture.
I gave you scripture. Typical comment from your type. All talk and no knowledge.
Your insolence and disobedience to the words of Christ are noted.Resting,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote Your insolence and disobedience to the words of Christ are noted.
YOU HAVE REJECTED CERTAIN SCRIPTURES PLAIN OUT. YOU HAVE GIVEN NO REASON WHY THEY ARE NOT TRUE, BUT DENIED THEM. YES COMPLETELY IGNORED THEM.
THERE ARE NO THEORIES. THERE IS ONE HOLY SPIRIT. ONE TRUTH.
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS FROM BEFORE. IF YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE YOU WOULD SHOW EVERYONE HOW TO ANSWER. NOT RUN AWAY. THAT IS NOT HONEST. I & OTHERS HAVE BROUGHT UP SOME GOOD VALID POINTS. YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO THOSE SCRIPTURES FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT. I AM SURE OTHERS ARE LOOKING INTO THOSE SCRIPTURES. YOU SHOULD BE HAVING SLEEPLESS NIGHTS UNTIL IT MAKES SENSE. YOU REALLY SHOULD BE READING, & SEARCHING, FOR THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH. IF WHAT I AM SAYING IS TRUE, AND YOU ARE WRONG, THEN YOU HAVE ATTACKED THE WORD OF GOD. WOULD GOD BE HAPPY WITH THAT? SO UP TO YOU. IF YOU THINK THAT YOU CANNOT LEARN ANYTHING MORE AND YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ALREADY, THEN SO BE IT.BUT IF YOU HAVE ALL THE KNOWLEDGE AND ARE QUALIFIED TO JUDGE SUCH MATTERS, THEN
EXPLAIN EZEKIEL 37 TO ME. IS IT IN YOUR BIBLE? OR DID YOU RIP THAT PAGE OUT.
EXPLAIN WHY JOHN IS THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WHEN CHRIST SAID OF ALL THE MEN BORN OF WOMEN JOHN IS THE GREATEST?
EXPLAIN IF ABRAHAM IS GREATER THAN JOHN THEN?
EXPLAIN WHY CHRIST SAID NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME?
….NO MAN….THEN EXPLAIN WHY ISRAELITES UNDER THE LAW CAN COME IN SO EASY AND CHRIST DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM?
EXPLAIN
EXPLAIN
EXPLAIN
WHERES YOUR SWORD?Quote (Resting @ April 18 2013,09:21) Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,08:52) Quote (Resting @ April 18 2013,08:21) Quote (Wakeup @ April 17 2013,20:45) Quote (Resting @ April 17 2013,13:52) Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Resting.Verily I say unto thee;Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.
The thief could have been babtised with water sometime before he became a thief. But the fact here is that he is a thief,and theives dont get to heaven.
And yet he made it,because he was given mercy.
It is mercy that get us there;not water.
Water babtism is for repentance;but does not give us guarantee of acceptance,one can always back slide after babtised.The 10 virgins were all babtised with water,obviously.
And yet only 5 made it.wakeup.
Wakeup,You are using faulty reasoning to refuse the commandments of the Lord.
The Apostles were sent to preach as Peter and all others of Acts preached, and they were in every instance baptised in water according to the command.
The fact that you refuse to obey the doctrine of the Apostles makes it apparent, and by your answer above, that you are not born of the Spirit into the Kingdom of God today.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Res.
Resting.Why is it faulty reasoning?
In fact it happened at the cross with the thief.
An unbabtised thief,and yet received mercy.Lets say that he was babtised before,for the remission of sins.
But became unbabtised by sinning again,for he bacame a sinner. He became a thief.There are many unbabtised today,but have changed their lives;and repented by living a God fearing life.
Water babtism is not the key to everlasting life,but mercy is
the key.Water babtism is good, as long as one keeps away from touching the unclean thing.
One can unbabtise himself by sinning again and again.wakeup.
The thief never entered the Kingdom of God in his lifetime.Peter preached the way in which people can enter the kingdom of God before they die, and it includes water baptism as Christ commanded them to preach.
This is why Peter commanded Cornelius to be baptised in water after he had received the Holy Spirit by its falling upon him.
This baptism in water there was not Johns baptism, it is baptism into Christ. The work of the Holy Spirit and the water go together.
Paul in Acts 19 showed that water baptism into Christ was still required after they had been baptised by John–
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.It is best to be joined to a people who have already been baptised into Christ and been filled with the Holy Spirit and so enter the Kingdom of God.
If you see this, then pray the Lord sends you some people like that (who are not in to the sins of the churches)
Remember that many believed and obeyed God in the OT times but none of them ever entered into the Kingdom of God in their lifetime as we can today.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Res
restingAct 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.were does it say that they were baptized in water ,IT SAYS THEY “HEARD ” can you hear baptism in water
Quote (journey42 @ April 18 2013,16:47) Hi J42, (Quote)
Well my answer is that all who take part in the 1st resurrection are first fruits. Simply because there are two resurrections.1. 1st resurrection at the 2nd coming of Christ.
2. 2nd resurrection after the thousand years.
Christ was resurrected.
1Cor.15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
Rom.8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the First fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
The first resurrection has not come yet.
Hi J42,The first resurrection has not come yet.
1Cor.15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
Rom.8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the First fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Christ has not been raised from the dead?
Peace.
Quote (journey42 @ April 19 2013,08:38) Resting,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote Your insolence and disobedience to the words of Christ are noted.
YOU HAVE REJECTED CERTAIN SCRIPTURES PLAIN OUT. YOU HAVE GIVEN NO REASON WHY THEY ARE NOT TRUE, BUT DENIED THEM. YES COMPLETELY IGNORED THEM.
THERE ARE NO THEORIES. THERE IS ONE HOLY SPIRIT. ONE TRUTH.
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS FROM BEFORE. IF YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE YOU WOULD SHOW EVERYONE HOW TO ANSWER. NOT RUN AWAY. THAT IS NOT HONEST. I & OTHERS HAVE BROUGHT UP SOME GOOD VALID POINTS. YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO THOSE SCRIPTURES FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT. I AM SURE OTHERS ARE LOOKING INTO THOSE SCRIPTURES. YOU SHOULD BE HAVING SLEEPLESS NIGHTS UNTIL IT MAKES SENSE. YOU REALLY SHOULD BE READING, & SEARCHING, FOR THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH. IF WHAT I AM SAYING IS TRUE, AND YOU ARE WRONG, THEN YOU HAVE ATTACKED THE WORD OF GOD. WOULD GOD BE HAPPY WITH THAT? SO UP TO YOU. IF YOU THINK THAT YOU CANNOT LEARN ANYTHING MORE AND YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ALREADY, THEN SO BE IT.BUT IF YOU HAVE ALL THE KNOWLEDGE AND ARE QUALIFIED TO JUDGE SUCH MATTERS, THEN
EXPLAIN EZEKIEL 37 TO ME. IS IT IN YOUR BIBLE? OR DID YOU RIP THAT PAGE OUT.
EXPLAIN WHY JOHN IS THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WHEN CHRIST SAID OF ALL THE MEN BORN OF WOMEN JOHN IS THE GREATEST?
EXPLAIN IF ABRAHAM IS GREATER THAN JOHN THEN?
EXPLAIN WHY CHRIST SAID NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME?
….NO MAN….THEN EXPLAIN WHY ISRAELITES UNDER THE LAW CAN COME IN SO EASY AND CHRIST DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM?
EXPLAIN
EXPLAIN
EXPLAIN
WHERES YOUR SWORD?
J42MT 11:11 “Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
LK 7:28 “I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”you quoted
Quote EXPLAIN WHY JOHN IS THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WHEN CHRIST SAID OF ALL THE MEN BORN OF WOMEN JOHN IS THE GREATEST? is this not different from scriptures
Quote (terraricca @ April 18 2013,18:53) Quote (journey42 @ April 19 2013,08:38) Quote (Resting @ April 19 2013,12:05) Quote Your insolence and disobedience to the words of Christ are noted.
YOU HAVE REJECTED CERTAIN SCRIPTURES PLAIN OUT. YOU HAVE GIVEN NO REASON WHY THEY ARE NOT TRUE, BUT DENIED THEM. YES COMPLETELY IGNORED THEM.
THERE ARE NO THEORIES. THERE IS ONE HOLY SPIRIT. ONE TRUTH.
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS FROM BEFORE. IF YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE YOU WOULD SHOW EVERYONE HOW TO ANSWER. NOT RUN AWAY. THAT IS NOT HONEST. I & OTHERS HAVE BROUGHT UP SOME GOOD VALID POINTS. YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO THOSE SCRIPTURES FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT. I AM SURE OTHERS ARE LOOKING INTO THOSE SCRIPTURES. YOU SHOULD BE HAVING SLEEPLESS NIGHTS UNTIL IT MAKES SENSE. YOU REALLY SHOULD BE READING, & SEARCHING, FOR THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH. IF WHAT I AM SAYING IS TRUE, AND YOU ARE WRONG, THEN YOU HAVE ATTACKED THE WORD OF GOD. WOULD GOD BE HAPPY WITH THAT? SO UP TO YOU. IF YOU THINK THAT YOU CANNOT LEARN ANYTHING MORE AND YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ALREADY, THEN SO BE IT.BUT IF YOU HAVE ALL THE KNOWLEDGE AND ARE QUALIFIED TO JUDGE SUCH MATTERS, THEN
EXPLAIN EZEKIEL 37 TO ME. IS IT IN YOUR BIBLE? OR DID YOU RIP THAT PAGE OUT.
EXPLAIN WHY JOHN IS THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WHEN CHRIST SAID OF ALL THE MEN BORN OF WOMEN JOHN IS THE GREATEST?
EXPLAIN IF ABRAHAM IS GREATER THAN JOHN THEN?
EXPLAIN WHY CHRIST SAID NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME?
….NO MAN….THEN EXPLAIN WHY ISRAELITES UNDER THE LAW CAN COME IN SO EASY AND CHRIST DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM?
EXPLAIN
EXPLAIN
EXPLAIN
WHERES YOUR SWORD?
J42MT 11:11 “Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
LK 7:28 “I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”you quoted
Quote EXPLAIN WHY JOHN IS THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WHEN CHRIST SAID OF ALL THE MEN BORN OF WOMEN JOHN IS THE GREATEST? is this not different from scriptures
Hi T,There was not yet the resurrection.
Peace brother.
abe,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote 1Cor.15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. Rom.8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the First fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Christ has not been raised from the dead?
Abe
Dear Abe
Yes Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the FIRST one raised from the dead.
Although Christ was the first, that is not what we call the FIRST RESURRECTION , because the first resurrection happens at the 7th trump. It is a mass resurrection. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. We all know Christ is risen already, otherwise what is out testimony?
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump/VIAL: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Now to say the first resurrection has occurred already is not so. We are speaking of the resurrection of all the saints at the 7th trump;
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.Beware of people that preach this Abe.
We cannot say the first resurrection is past already. You just saw the scripture for yourself.So there is a day when it is called the FIRST RESURRECTION, and it is called the first resurrection because there will be another day of resurrection a thousand years later, THE SECOND RESURRECTION. This is the white throne judgement. The last judgement, when all the dead are judged according to the books. Whoever is written in the lambs book of life will be RESURRECTED. Whoever is not, will be thrown into the lake of fire. Then that's it. No more judgements. Even death will be destroyed. This only proves that there are more generations to come in during the millennium or else they would of been raised in the FIRST RESURRECTION at Christ's 2nd coming.
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