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Hi Nick
Quote You were surely pointing to this verse in your previous post?
Sorry, not sure what you are meaning here. What verse? What post?Quote Besides if scripture offends you then such is the work of scripture.
True. Why do many christians rush to be the first to take offense when others argue against scripture? Mrs. IM4Truth, for one, most of the Islamic world for another.Quote Knowledge surely follows faith when it comes to spiritual matters.
What does this mean? Can you even tell me what ‘spiritual’ means?Quote If you want personal proof that God exists and every word written is valid
then you will not know these things till you decide to believe and obey.
Such is the seemingly unreasonable nature of illogical FAITH
…and the reason why it’s bluff needs to be called, urgently in the case of maniacal religious fanatics.Stuart
Hi Stu,
You said
“It is also written that god does not exist. “
There is no bluff to be called and those who are driven instead by a spirit of madness are not of Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 06 2008,19:58) Hi Stu,
You said
“It is also written that god does not exist. “
There is no bluff to be called and those who are driven instead by a spirit of madness are not of Christ.
So you are happy to accept the equally valid claims of militant Islam, then? They have as much claim to truth as you, yet you would not in turn call their bluff?Stuart
Hi Stu,
I see no resurrections happening or the healings and anointed words coming from any other place but the way of Christ. Do you?And I see no healings or ressurections occurring outside of a few words on a page. Perhaps Islam is being more honest?
Nick there are no ressurections happening at all.
Healing is often achieved by the medical profession, but not by Benny Hinn or any of the parasitic 'healing' crowd. The bluff of all 'healers in Christ' has been well and truely called and I'm surprised you mention it at all.
I agree with Towshab that militant Islam is more honest. When their book tells them to slaughter apostates and non-believers, at least they do actually carry out the threat.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
Those who are sick still need a physician.
But the blind do not instantly see and the deaf do not instantly hear.
Paralytics do not rise from their beds and carry them and dead men do not wake up after 4 days.Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2008,11:11) Nick there are no ressurections happening at all. Healing is often achieved by the medical profession, but not by Benny Hinn or any of the parasitic 'healing' crowd. The bluff of all 'healers in Christ' has been well and truely called and I'm surprised you mention it at all.
I agree with Towshab that militant Islam is more honest. When their book tells them to slaughter apostates and non-believers, at least they do actually carry out the threat.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
Stu, you misconstrue.
I am sure God constantly does little miracles through His children.
But the quackery of tv evangelism is abhorrent.
Christ and his apostles and some of the prophets healed and even raised the dead.
But of course you need to believe in God and the bible to accept these things.Hi Nick
Quote Those who are sick still need a physician. Yes, and atheists are cured by physicians at exactly the same rate as the faithful are.
Quote But the blind do not instantly see and the deaf do not instantly hear. Yes they do. When a cataract is removed, the effect is instantaneous. When a person has a cochlear implant their hearing improves immediately after the device is turned on and they learn how to use it. Antibiotics cure within a day or two. Less than a hundred years ago a bacterial infection could kill someone in short order; today it is a usually a simple matter of taking an antibiotic. Let’s not forget what a fantastic ‘miracle’ that is. You may claim it has arisen through the actions of your god but you must ask why he had been so cruel to deny the knowledge to those who died of such infections before Fleming’s discovery.
Quote Paralytics do not rise from their beds and carry them and dead men do not wake up after 4 days. Well if the cause of paralysis is damaged spinal nerve tissue then that either will not heal, or will be very slow to. You are right that dead men do not wake up after 4 days, although you did say above that this does happen.
Quote I am sure God constantly does little miracles through His children. You are welcome to your opinion, but I think there is nothing that cannot be explained rationally. Certainly no one here has convinced me that miracles are anything more than applied ignorance.
Quote Christ and his apostles and some of the prophets healed and even raised the dead. Which does make a mockery of the particularity of Jesus’ supposed resurrection. Anyway, resurrection has never happened. I would welcome evidence to the contrary but I am confident that there is none. Anecdote and special pleading, as found in the NT, deserve the ridicule they invite.
Quote But of course you need to believe in God and the bible to accept these things. I guess so, which is putting the cart before the horse in credibility terms, and is a good reason why people don’t believe or lose faith. To me submitting to belief in god is to give away true curiosity and acceptance of truth. To believe the way you do requires scripture to be right regardless of what we observe, which is just death of the part of the brain that makes us human, as far as I am concerned. Christian belief is dropping faster than proverbial lead balloons and it is not a bad thing for these reasons.
Stuart
Hi stu,
But Jesus did not need fancy medical tools.
Just a word or a touch. Amazing.
And totally irrational from a scientific point of view.
Such is the shortcomings of scienceHi Stu,
You are a true missionary spreading your gospel of doubt
and the elevation of possible truth found through weak science.Hi Nick
Quote But Jesus did not need fancy medical tools. Just a word or a touch. Amazing. And totally irrational from a scientific point of view.
A shame then that he did not actually cure anyone of anything. Not so amazing.Quote Such is the shortcomings of science
Sorry, what are the shortcomings of science?Quote You are a true missionary spreading your gospel of doubt and the elevation of possible truth found through weak science.
Apart from the ‘weak’ bit, thank you.Stuart
Hi Stu,
You view faith as confidence in the results of experiments you have approved.
But if the earth shook beneath your feet you would probably not reach for a measuring tool.Experience of is cast aside as is the reports of reliable witnesses which are called myths.
Yet you would believe if you were told on TV that a volcano had erupted.Nothing can happen in your view outside of what has always happened so far
And all who diasagree with your view can expect to be labelled in a variety of ways as fools.I do not see consistency or fairness in this approach.
Reliable witnesses reported that men anointed of God had done miracles.Your bias is entirely unscientific and blinds you to new knowledge.
Hi Nick
Quote You view faith as confidence in the results of experiments you have approved.
No. I can’t agree with this statement at all.Quote But if the earth shook beneath your feet you would probably not reach for a measuring tool.
The earth very often does shake beneath our feet here in NZ, and many go online to find out the magnitude mesurement. In other words, yes I would.Quote Experience of is cast aside as is the reports of reliable witnesses which are called myths.
Yet you would believe if you were told on TV that a volcano had erupted.
Sure, TV usually has pictures and the journalists have reputations. There are no eyewitness accounts of the activities of Jesus or many other of the characters described in scripture. There is a world of difference in the reliability of the accounts.Quote Nothing can happen in your view outside of what has always happened so far
And all who diasagree with your view can expect to be labelled in a variety of ways as fools.
I disagree here too. There are many things happening today that have never happened before. It is not I who says ‘the fool in his heart…’, it is christians here who dish out the insults.Quote I do not see consistency or fairness in this approach.
Reliable witnesses reported that men anointed of God had done miracles.
Name one. Give me the name of a single indisputable eyewitness of Jesus who wrote about what he saw. Give me a single example of a miracle that was verified to have happened and that cannot be explained by natural means.Quote Your bias is entirely unscientific and blinds you to new knowledge.
Pot, kettle, black. You have not even said what the new knowledge is. I think you are bluffing.Stuart
Hi stu,
Since you are the judge in your own mind of what is indisputable
and have already said that all things are disputable and made probable by science
and you believe no writings or witnesses except perhaps Harry Potter
then you are welcome to the little corner you have painted yourself into.Hi stu,
It was entirely illogical for Peter to attempt to walk on water.
Men are heavy and water will not support their weight.
But he did
and it did.
Faith is like that.Its entirely illogical for a teenage boy to fly on a broom but Harry Potter does it. Magic is like that.
Hi Tow,
It is too easy to mock those who have faith in Jesus Christ.
They have gone beyond logic and done what he said to do
because they believe he is the way and the truth and the life.But no worldly man can see the neeed to be born again.
Yes it is best to leave logic and intelligence behind. You've often said that those things are a detriment. Yet think what this world would be without logical and intelligent people? You certainly wouldn't be typing on a keyboard and posting on an Internet site. There would be no modern conveniences and we'd likely be living in caves still.
Seriously, if Christians would stop being so selfish we wouldn't need logical and intelligent people. We would not need doctors because Christians would heal people, we would not need meteorologist because Christians could control the weather, we would not need agricultural science because Christians could feed the world would much less food. Yet the 2.1 billion Christians sit on their hands and don't do any of this, so G-d made intelligent and logical people to do things the hard way.
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