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Hi Tow,
2Kings 8
“1Then spake Elisha unto the woman, whose son he had restored to life, saying, Arise, and go thou and thine household, and sojourn wheresoever thou canst sojourn: for the LORD hath called for a famine; and it shall also come upon the land seven years.2And the woman arose, and did after the saying of the man of God: and she went with her household, and sojourned in the land of the Philistines seven years.
3And it came to pass at the seven years' end, that the woman returned out of the land of the Philistines: and she went forth to cry unto the king for her house and for her land.
4And the king talked with Gehazi the servant of the man of God, saying, Tell me, I pray thee, all the great things that Elisha hath done.
5And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom Elisha restored to life.
6And when the king asked the woman, she told him. So the king appointed unto her a certain officer, saying, Restore all that was hers, and all the fruits of the field since the day that she left the land, even until now.”
So when you look at a scripture like this do you have to remove the bits about the son being restored to life but all the rest is inspired writings to you?
Or do you take it all with a grain of salt and say it may or may not have happened as written?
Hi Tow,
Here Elisha mades an iron axehead swim
2Kings 64So he went with them. And when they came to Jordan, they cut down wood.
5But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.
6And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.
7Therefore said he, Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.
Do you think it more likely that a freak current lifted up the axehead?
Hi tow,
2 Kings 4
1Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen.2And Elisha said unto her, What shall I do for thee? tell me, what hast thou in the house? And she said, Thine handmaid hath not any thing in the house, save a pot of oil.
3Then he said, Go, borrow thee vessels abroad of all thy neighbours, even empty vessels; borrow not a few.
4And when thou art come in, thou shalt shut the door upon thee and upon thy sons, and shalt pour out into all those vessels, and thou shalt set aside that which is full.
5So she went from him, and shut the door upon her and upon her sons, who brought the vessels to her; and she poured out.
6And it came to pass, when the vessels were full, that she said unto her son, Bring me yet a vessel. And he said unto her, There is not a vessel more. And the oil stayed.
7Then she came and told the man of God. And he said, Go, sell the oil, and pay thy debt, and live thou and thy children of the rest.
So perhaps there was a natural spring of oil under the jar which had a hole in it?
Hi tow,
How about this
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Do you think it is true?Hi Tow,
Some of the psalms may be a problem too as they mention the healing power of God.
Ps 103
Psalm 103
1Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.2Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
6The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.
7He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
8The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
14For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
19The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
20Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
22Bless the LORD, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the LORD, O my soul.
Hi Stu,
So as a man of science you say nothing is sure.
So you are like a blind man walking through a marsh.
One tiny step, yes ok, another, still firm underneath, oops back a bit.
Then why are you trying to attract followers from among those who are sighted?
Would it not be great to have a sure foundation of faith?Hi Nick
Quote So as a man of science you say nothing is sure. So you are like a blind man walking through a marsh.
No I say that scientific facts are provisional conclusions, contingent on no contradictory evidence being discovered. There are some things about which you can be sure as a basis for working, even if you retain the provision for possible later revision. A blind man is one who cannot see the way but is convinced it is there without good reason.
Quote One tiny step, yes ok, another, still firm underneath, oops back a bit.
That is how science goes, quote often. The religious only do the “oops” most of the time, to judge by their inability to give straight answers to easy questions in this forum.Quote Then why are you trying to attract followers from among those who are sighted?
Would it not be great to have a sure foundation of faith?
I’m not, they don’t actually seem to be, and no.Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,20:09) Hi tow,
Did God inspire the writing of the OT?
No, because there is not OT. In any case, what makes you think every word is inspired and truly from G-d, and not the strong feelings of the ones who wrote the words?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,20:28) Hi Tow,
2Kings 8
“1Then spake Elisha unto the woman, whose son he had restored to life, saying, Arise, and go thou and thine household, and sojourn wheresoever thou canst sojourn: for the LORD hath called for a famine; and it shall also come upon the land seven years.2And the woman arose, and did after the saying of the man of God: and she went with her household, and sojourned in the land of the Philistines seven years.
3And it came to pass at the seven years' end, that the woman returned out of the land of the Philistines: and she went forth to cry unto the king for her house and for her land.
4And the king talked with Gehazi the servant of the man of God, saying, Tell me, I pray thee, all the great things that Elisha hath done.
5And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom Elisha restored to life.
6And when the king asked the woman, she told him. So the king appointed unto her a certain officer, saying, Restore all that was hers, and all the fruits of the field since the day that she left the land, even until now.”
So when you look at a scripture like this do you have to remove the bits about the son being restored to life but all the rest is inspired writings to you?
Or do you take it all with a grain of salt and say it may or may not have happened as written?
2Ki 4:20 And when he had lifted him and brought him to his mother, the child sat on her lap till noon, and then he died.
=================================Nick, how many times did you hear of people being buried alive? What appears dead to one person may not be truly dead, but unconscious and close to death. Do you think the mother knew how to take a pulse?
=================================
2Ki 4:34 Then he went up and lay on the child, putting his mouth on his mouth, his eyes on his eyes, and his hands on his hands. And as he stretched himself upon him, the flesh of the child became warm.
2Ki 4:35 Then he got up again and walked once back and forth in the house, and went up and stretched himself upon him. The child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
=================================Looks very much like mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to me, Nick. None of this “Lazarus come forth” stuff.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,20:37) Hi Tow,
Here Elisha mades an iron axehead swim
2Kings 64So he went with them. And when they came to Jordan, they cut down wood.
5But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.
6And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.
7Therefore said he, Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.
Do you think it more likely that a freak current lifted up the axehead?
HEy, there ya go, you answered your own question.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,20:39) Hi tow,
2 Kings 4
1Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen.2And Elisha said unto her, What shall I do for thee? tell me, what hast thou in the house? And she said, Thine handmaid hath not any thing in the house, save a pot of oil.
3Then he said, Go, borrow thee vessels abroad of all thy neighbours, even empty vessels; borrow not a few.
4And when thou art come in, thou shalt shut the door upon thee and upon thy sons, and shalt pour out into all those vessels, and thou shalt set aside that which is full.
5So she went from him, and shut the door upon her and upon her sons, who brought the vessels to her; and she poured out.
6And it came to pass, when the vessels were full, that she said unto her son, Bring me yet a vessel. And he said unto her, There is not a vessel more. And the oil stayed.
7Then she came and told the man of God. And he said, Go, sell the oil, and pay thy debt, and live thou and thy children of the rest.
So perhaps there was a natural spring of oil under the jar which had a hole in it?
Sure. Do you believe everything you read of supposed miracles outside the bible too? If not, why assume that this is really the way it happened?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,20:43) Hi tow,
How about this
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Do you think it is true?
Yes, He created life. Life is temporary. He gave us the capacity to heal, and we can become wounded because of the frailty of our bodies.What's your point?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,21:24) Hi Tow,
Some of the psalms may be a problem too as they mention the healing power of God.
Note the key phrase “healing power of God”. You said a mouthful Nick. Well, a keyboard full anyway.Seriously Nick, your plan of deflecting by asking me what I believe has no bearing on whether or not Jesus was who he said he was. Tanakh says he was not. You say you believe 100% of the OT, but you cannot accept that Jesus was not prophecied as the Jewish King Messiah in it. So continue to try to pigeon-hole me, but it really shows signs of desperation on your part.
Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 15 2008,23:53) Life is temporary. He gave us the capacity to heal, and we can become wounded because of the frailty of our bodies.
Life is temporary? You must not believe in eternal life, then.Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 15 2008,08:55) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 15 2008,23:53) Life is temporary. He gave us the capacity to heal, and we can become wounded because of the frailty of our bodies.
Life is temporary? You must not believe in eternal life, then.
Know any immortals Chap?Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 15 2008,23:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,20:43) Hi tow,
How about this
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Do you think it is true?
Yes, He created life. Life is temporary. He gave us the capacity to heal, and we can become wounded because of the frailty of our bodies.What's your point?
Hi Tow,
So healing is just natural recovery.
Wow.
A powerless Creator God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2008,12:16) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 15 2008,23:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,20:43) Hi tow,
How about this
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Do you think it is true?
Yes, He created life. Life is temporary. He gave us the capacity to heal, and we can become wounded because of the frailty of our bodies.What's your point?
Hi Tow,
So healing is just natural recovery.
Wow.
A powerless Creator God.
G-d created our bodies with the ability to heal. When you cut yourself, does an angel sew it up for you? No, you body sends internal antibodies to the site of the cut, clotting agents help to slow the blood flow, a scab develops, etc. Does all of this require constant supernatural intervention?Beyond that, where are the documented faith healers? That is what Jesus was right? Then where are his followers?
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