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Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 06 2010,12:13) 
That is what I have been doing from page 1.
However my King James Bible says this in
John 20:6-7
Then Simon Peter following Him and went into the tomb” and He saw the linen cloth lying there.
verse 7
and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloth,but folded together in a place by it self.
So it is somewhat like it. But it is not a Dinner napkin. A handkerchief is like a kleenex tissue. But I find the story rather interesting. To make such an issue out of it, is more then ridiculous.
Irene Georg just woke up from a nap and I told Him about what the King James said about the story:” He said in His Rye Bible study of King James it says napkins,
So I am taking this story with a grain of salt….
One day Christ will tell us all….Irene
Irene,It is not ridiculous to make an issue out of it. The narrative says that the disciples were ignorant of the scripture that said that Jesus would rise from the dead. It says that it was the folded head cloth that testified to Christ's resurrection and they “believed.”
The article which says that the head cloth spoke of Christ's second coming goes against what the narrative PLAINLY says. It is a leap in logic to say that the folded head cloth signifies what a folded dinner cloth signifies.
So the head cloth was the first of several pieces of physical evidence which Christ used to convince His disciples of His resurrection. It was “Exhibit 1” if you will.
thinker
Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,10:16) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 05 2010,13:56) Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 05 2010,08:54) Would not the story reflect somewhat of a parable teaching?
Hi Princess,Why would the story need to reflect a parable teaching when the point of the folded grave cloth is clearly indicated? It says that when the two disciples saw the folded grave cloth that they believed that Jesus had risen from the dead. It says that they had not known the scriptures which testified of Christ's resurrection.
So the folded grave cloth was a piece of evidence which convinced the disciples that Jesus had risen as opposed to His body being stolen.
Yet some goof (not Georg) writes an article inwhich he super imposes into the narrative Jewish tradition about folded dinner napkins. And Georg falls for it. What does a folded dinner napkin have to do with a folded grave cloth?
If the master folded his own dinner napkin the servant knew that his master was coming back to the table. Does this necessarily imply that if the master folded his bath towel that he was coming back to the shower?
The folded grave cloth testified of His resurrection! And there is no evidence that Jesus folded the grave cloth. There were two angels in human form in the tomb PRIOR to the arrival of the disciples. What were they doing in the tomb with Jesus? Were they taking bets on how fast Jesus could unwrap Himself while Jesus was rolling on the floor trying to get out?
thinker
Hey thinker,Hope all is well.
Joh 20:13 They said to her, “Woman, why are you crying?” She told them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I don't know where they have put him.”
How does this scripture fit into either story?
Now, by either account brought forth, it is apparent that she did not understand.
Either be the napkin or prayer shawl, both show and state that he would return.
To me, I have heard the napkin story before, edj account I enjoyed also. I'll pass on splitting hairs on this one. You guys do well enough on your own.
Blessings to you and your family.
Greetings Princess,Mary apparently had not seen the folded cloth. It was still dark (vs. 1) so maybe she was not as alert to notice the folded cloth as the disciples. This is not “splitting hairs.” The narrative CLEARLY says that when the disciples saw the head cloth that they “believed” that Jesus had risen from the dead.
Why didn't John say that they believed that He was coming again?
Or maybe Mary did see the head cloth but was not as keen at inductive reasoning as the disciples which seems to be the case with some here.
thinker
The Thinker,
I agree that George's logal reasoning is flawed but the same conclusions he reached can be ontained throught the Jewish mystical reasoning which is more based on similarities than mathlike reasoning of the Greeks. You see the same in Matthew when it state Jesus was called out of Egypt as a child and stated it fullfilled a scripture that was about the 12 tribes and not about the Messiah even though it would later be true also of the Messiah.
Jesus's student most likely knew Jesus' customs on rising after a sleep and that knowledge may have played a part. Mary might not have had such knowledge.
Hey thinker,
Let's take this in another direction shall we:
Starting with Luke 23.55 and continuing……..
(Paraphrased)
So the women had seen how the body was laid, then the sabbath comes into play (whole other salvation issue, by today's standard's most would have been there either that night or the next day), what a mournful sabbath that had to be for the ones that loved him.
First light they went to the tomb, messenger's appeared to explain: don't you remember what he taught you…….the women go back and tell their story (and by noted in some post, still some discredit women in their faith) no one believed them, so they had to go look for themselves, even kepha seen the linen cloths.Women in our family have a saying about things that might not get done as planned 'if tribulation comes tomorrow, it will be the last thing on our mind' with a 'seek first the kingdom' to follow.
We all can be united, some learn audio some learn video, in other words either show me or tell me, this would be the case with the tomb.
If their mind set at the time was clear then maybe things would have been different.
Take care Thinker
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2010,11:51) Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,11:36) What accounts would make you think that I do not believe? Is it something to do with the three nines? Let me know.
Hi Princess of the king,Do you believe Jesus “Spiritual” second coming occurred at “Pentecost”?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edj,Would you please start a new thread in regards to this, so we can continue. Thank you.
I am sure this would bring much to the forum.
Take care, Edj.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 05 2010,15:16) thethinker, it cracks me up that you have that name.
I have often felt the same. Sometimes the irony is too much to bear. But in this case, and perhaps only this case, he seems to be right I think.Human nature:
People see what they want to see.
People love stories.
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