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I checked out your video. This guy has a problem with Catholicism and other related denominations as to their tenants of faith.
So do I.He didn't produce very much in the way of discrediting the bible however.
If a person drives drunk and crashes his car, does that discredit the manufacturer of the vehicle he was driving?
Bod, no matter what you say, or anyone else down here says, or anyone 'up there', says, The Bible means little to anyone – if the Holy Spirit is not working and leading a person. People can do elaborate speeches on the Bible and Belief, and actually put thier hearers off. It depends what Spirit is behind what they are saying. The Spirit of Truth – the Comforter, The Holy Spirit, brings with it all that you need to move on. Without it we are utterly lost.
Let me ask you, Bod. When you read the words of Jesus, what do you feel? Or how do you feel when the Quran says one thing, and Jesus' words say something else?
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 20 2012,14:28) No cover up Bod. Surely I am allowed to clear up any misconceptions regarding scripture Bod? I was pointing to the fact that when people say they saw God face to face, they saw his image. That is what the bible shows clearly.
If I saw Michael the Archangel, I might say that I saw God as surely he is an image of God too.
Seeing God's glory is the only way you can actually see God. Remember that sight is not always what you think. There is foresight, insight, hindsight, and sight that is live. All sight is really taking place in the brain and is an understanding. To say that you see God is not to be taken as God having a body and you can see and touch. God is seen even through his own creation.
I am reminding you guys that what you think is contradiction is not at all. Even the verses that say that Moses saw God, explain in the same breath that Moses saw the Angel of the Lord.
No contradiction Bod, that is my point. It is not dishonest to point out this, rather it is an honest thing to do because what I say is a fact and no hiding of anything is necessary.
And you try and get us to believe in your book and prophet, and the while go around saying that the bible contradicts and Jesus is not the son of God, and he didn't die for our sins.
I mean if you really think that you can convert myself from the truth of scripture by trying to make show similarities with the Koran and the Bible and then say that the Bible unreasonable or contradictory, then your true motive is exposed.
I think you will have better luck buying a lotto ticket than trying to coax me to follow and accept your line of reasoning.
It's like I said your logic is hypocritical you only use it selectively because if you didn't you would be able to use it objectively.Now keep in mind you have misquoted me again because I have said seeming contradictions help reveal the truth and understanding just like you explained aboy God's glory, angels,…etc.
You won't freely admit that Jesus is also called the Servant of God and in many Bibles in the same verses that son was used had previously said servant what does that tell you T8?
Acts 3:13
King James Version (KJV)
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Compared to
Acts 3:13
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.
Please explain with logic T8 the seeming contradiction of translation
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 20 2012,14:42) I checked out your video. This guy has a problem with Catholicism and other related denominations as to their tenants of faith.
So do I.He didn't produce very much in the way of discrediting the bible however.
If a person drives drunk and crashes his car, does that discredit the manufacturer of the vehicle he was driving?
He wasn't trying to discredit the Bible just the abuse and tampering with the Bible. I love the Bible but there is no doubt that things have been added and changed around for effect.Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 20 2012,22:11) Bod, no matter what you say, or anyone else down here says, or anyone 'up there', says, The Bible means little to anyone – if the Holy Spirit is not working and leading a person. People can do elaborate speeches on the Bible and Belief, and actually put thier hearers off. It depends what Spirit is behind what they are saying. The Spirit of Truth – the Comforter, The Holy Spirit, brings with it all that you need to move on. Without it we are utterly lost. Let me ask you, Bod. When you read the words of Jesus, what do you feel? Or how do you feel when the Quran says one thing, and Jesus' words say something else?
That's a good question and the Answer is I feel the same because I understand that the Gospel is a report of events and The Quran is a revelation and clarification of what actually occured.Keep in mind that in the NT the men writing are writing according to what they remember they never say that God told them to write it or The Holy Spirit helped them write it. The Quran on the other hand is actually saying that God and the angels are directly revealing this so if you were to believe both you would do so with whomever is relaying the information at the time.
Look what Luke writes:
Luke 1
Dedication to Theophilus
1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, 3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, 4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.compared to The Quran
1 A.L.M.
2 This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
3 Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
4 And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
5 They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
6 As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.I hope you see my point
Bod, before I reply to this, please read this Sermon, I thought it was really good:
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2012,07:02) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 20 2012,14:42) I checked out your video. This guy has a problem with Catholicism and other related denominations as to their tenants of faith.
So do I.He didn't produce very much in the way of discrediting the bible however.
If a person drives drunk and crashes his car, does that discredit the manufacturer of the vehicle he was driving?
He wasn't trying to discredit the Bible just the abuse and tampering with the Bible. I love the Bible but there is no doubt that things have been added and changed around for effect.
Bod, do you not believe that God can protect 'The Word' which He sent right around the World? Do you not believe what Jesus said? That 'This good news of the coming Kingdom of God will be sent as a Witness to all of the Nations – and then the end will come'?The Word of God as in the Bible is a Witness to the World. I can believe in it all.
Didn't you used to?
Bod, when any document is translated, it will contain error to some degree. That is a problem if you read one translation. If you are objective, you will read a number of translations as well as use tools like a concordance and will look up the Hebrew and Greek words if need be.
Additionally, the bible has more than one family of texts that were copied and copied and we also have the relatively recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Given that, errors show up easily. If any of the texts were tampered with it shows up, unless the tampering was independently done and coincedentally matched. This is useful in determining tampering and how accurate our bibles and manuscripts are and it appears from these scrolls that our modern bibles are quite accurate as copies.
So that leaves us with translations. Differing translations is not a game breaker either because some words do have multiple meanings and thus one translation might use it this way and another the other way. But if we use multiple translations and do the hard yards with looking up the possible meaning of words and look at the context and the greater context, then we can certainly gain good understanding of what is written. This would be true of any ancient book or document.
“Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2012,07:11) Keep in mind that in the NT the men writing are writing according to what they remember they never say that God told them to write it or The Holy Spirit helped them write it. No, it says it is ALL inspired by God:
“Continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.”
Quote The Quran on the other hand is actually saying that God and the angels are directly revealing this so if you were to believe both you would do so with whomever is relaying the information at the time. Bod,
So what is the Spirit of Truth then? The Spirit of Truth is what draws us to the Scripture and to God. I was drawn to Scripture, and the Truth. However, when I tried to read the Quran, it was not the same, I just couldn't read it. I was not drawn to it.
What draws you Bod? And why the Quran when you were at one time a Christian?
Bod you are always trying to convince people that Islam is the truth and that Christians shouldn't oppose Islam because commonalities are too great to do that. And then on the other hand you try to expose every possible error and paint a picture of mistrust in the bible and the verses that indirectly contradict the teachings in the Koran.
See how you pick a side that suits you and then change when it fits to do so.
I believe that consistency and open mindedness are good qualities and I try to live by that. I invite you to do the same.
Call a spade a space. Don't try to paint the best but different picture when it suits. Paint the picture you really believe, and then admit to changing that picture when you have truly learned something. That way, people would take you more seriously and trust you more.
Quote Good points t8. That was in regards to this post, sorry.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2012,00:32) Bod, when any document is translated, it will contain error to some degree. That is a problem if you read one translation. If you are objective, you will read a number of translations as well as use tools like a concordance and will look up the Hebrew and Greek words if need be. Additionally, the bible has more than one family of texts that were copied and copied and we also have the relatively recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Given that, errors show up easily. If any of the texts were tampered with it shows up, unless the tampering was independently done and coincedentally matched. This is useful in determining tampering and how accurate our bibles and manuscripts are and it appears from these scrolls that our modern bibles are quite accurate as copies.
So that leaves us with translations. Differing translations is not a game breaker either because some words do have multiple meanings and thus one translation might use it this way and another the other way. But if we use multiple translations and do the hard yards with looking up the possible meaning of words and look at the context and the greater context, then we can certainly gain good understanding of what is written. This would be true of any ancient book or document.
“Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2012,22:32) Bod, when any document is translated, it will contain error to some degree. That is a problem if you read one translation. If you are objective, you will read a number of translations as well as use tools like a concordance and will look up the Hebrew and Greek words if need be. Additionally, the bible has more than one family of texts that were copied and copied and we also have the relatively recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Given that, errors show up easily. If any of the texts were tampered with it shows up, unless the tampering was independently done and coincedentally matched. This is useful in determining tampering and how accurate our bibles and manuscripts are and it appears from these scrolls that our modern bibles are quite accurate as copies.
So that leaves us with translations. Differing translations is not a game breaker either because some words do have multiple meanings and thus one translation might use it this way and another the other way. But if we use multiple translations and do the hard yards with looking up the possible meaning of words and look at the context and the greater context, then we can certainly gain good understanding of what is written. This would be true of any ancient book or document.
“Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”.
T8With your explanation you didn't bother to respond to this comparison:
Acts 3:13
King James Version (KJV)
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Compared to
Acts 3:13
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.
I have said many times that the term son can only mean servant pertaining to God and now the Bible is backing me up 100% but the question is why can't you wrap your mind around this FACT?
The word son in the Bible pertaining to God always means righteous servant and never literal son as soon as you understand the beauty of metaphors you will grasp this most simple idea otherwise you will have to play mental gymnastics explaining why the angels called sons of God are not really sons of God like how all of Israel is called God's son but not really like Jesus and so forth and so forth.
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 21 2012,22:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2012,07:02) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 20 2012,14:42) I checked out your video. This guy has a problem with Catholicism and other related denominations as to their tenants of faith.
So do I.He didn't produce very much in the way of discrediting the bible however.
If a person drives drunk and crashes his car, does that discredit the manufacturer of the vehicle he was driving?
He wasn't trying to discredit the Bible just the abuse and tampering with the Bible. I love the Bible but there is no doubt that things have been added and changed around for effect.
Bod, do you not believe that God can protect 'The Word' which He sent right around the World? Do you not believe what Jesus said? That 'This good news of the coming Kingdom of God will be sent as a Witness to all of the Nations – and then the end will come'?The Word of God as in the Bible is a Witness to the World. I can believe in it all.
Didn't you used to?
Actually God did protect His word by revealing the Quran. I have already shown that the Bible has been tampered with the main message of believing in God has not been changed but many things have been altered so that others can control believers that's why you are not Catholic if the bible hasn't been tampered and its usages abusive please tell me why you are not Catholic they are the ones who brought you the Bible itself, No Catholicism no Bible.Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 21 2012,22:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2012,07:11) Keep in mind that in the NT the men writing are writing according to what they remember they never say that God told them to write it or The Holy Spirit helped them write it. No, it says it is ALL inspired by God:
“Continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.”
Quote The Quran on the other hand is actually saying that God and the angels are directly revealing this so if you were to believe both you would do so with whomever is relaying the information at the time. Bod,
So what is the Spirit of Truth then? The Spirit of Truth is what draws us to the Scripture and to God. I was drawn to Scripture, and the Truth. However, when I tried to read the Quran, it was not the same, I just couldn't read it. I was not drawn to it.
What draws you Bod? And why the Quran when you were at one time a Christian?
If you were not ready or prepared to read the Quran it has nothing to do with The Holy Spirit, It has to do with your spirit and what I mean is if there are things in your life that you are working on and not just you I mean anyone and you have not overcome it yet it is not The Holy Spirit causing the delay it is the person.For instance if a person wants to lose weight and prays to God The Holy Spirit will immediately start assisting the person but if the spirit is willing and the flesh is weak failure will occur and soon the Holy Spirit might not help because the belief is not really there not even the faith of a mustard seed.
Some people are ready to move forward and others are not and that's okay
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2012,22:38) Bod you are always trying to convince people that Islam is the truth and that Christians shouldn't oppose Islam because commonalities are too great to do that. And then on the other hand you try to expose every possible error and paint a picture of mistrust in the bible and the verses that indirectly contradict the teachings in the Koran. See how you pick a side that suits you and then change when it fits to do so.
I believe that consistency and open mindedness are good qualities and I try to live by that. I invite you to do the same.
Call a spade a space. Don't try to paint the best but different picture when it suits. Paint the picture you really believe, and then admit to changing that picture when you have truly learned something. That way, people would take you more seriously and trust you more.
T8I just showed you that the word “Son” referring to Jesus was also translated “Servant” in the updated thorough translation(More honest translation)
You still have not conceded that point but look:
(NKJV)
Acts 3:26
To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”It use to say:
Acts 3:26
King James Version (KJV)
26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Here we go again T8 or anyone else and believe me there are many more instances but I will only do one at a time. Why would anyone translate “Son” for “Servant” unless it was more accurate? Now if the Quran says God does not have a son and that all come before Him as servants and then the Bible proves that Servant can be mistranslated as “Son” what should I believe?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 22 2012,09:24) Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 21 2012,22:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2012,07:11) Keep in mind that in the NT the men writing are writing according to what they remember they never say that God told them to write it or The Holy Spirit helped them write it. No, it says it is ALL inspired by God:
“Continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.”
Quote The Quran on the other hand is actually saying that God and the angels are directly revealing this so if you were to believe both you would do so with whomever is relaying the information at the time. Bod,
So what is the Spirit of Truth then? The Spirit of Truth is what draws us to the Scripture and to God. I was drawn to Scripture, and the Truth. However, when I tried to read the Quran, it was not the same, I just couldn't read it. I was not drawn to it.
What draws you Bod? And why the Quran when you were at one time a Christian?
If you were not ready or prepared to read the Quran it has nothing to do with The Holy Spirit, It has to do with your spirit and what I mean is if there are things in your life that you are working on and not just you I mean anyone and you have not overcome it yet it is not The Holy Spirit causing the delay it is the person.For instance if a person wants to lose weight and prays to God The Holy Spirit will immediately start assisting the person but if the spirit is willing and the flesh is weak failure will occur and soon the Holy Spirit might not help because the belief is not really there not even the faith of a mustard seed.
Some people are ready to move forward and others are not and that's okay
bodthe Koran was written by copying from the bible ,and Muhammad was influenced by his Christian relatives,
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,02:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 22 2012,09:24) Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 21 2012,22:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2012,07:11) Keep in mind that in the NT the men writing are writing according to what they remember they never say that God told them to write it or The Holy Spirit helped them write it. No, it says it is ALL inspired by God:
“Continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.”
Quote The Quran on the other hand is actually saying that God and the angels are directly revealing this so if you were to believe both you would do so with whomever is relaying the information at the time. Bod,
So what is the Spirit of Truth then? The Spirit of Truth is what draws us to the Scripture and to God. I was drawn to Scripture, and the Truth. However, when I tried to read the Quran, it was not the same, I just couldn't read it. I was not drawn to it.
What draws you Bod? And why the Quran when you were at one time a Christian?
If you were not ready or prepared to read the Quran it has nothing to do with The Holy Spirit, It has to do with your spirit and what I mean is if there are things in your life that you are working on and not just you I mean anyone and you have not overcome it yet it is not The Holy Spirit causing the delay it is the person.For instance if a person wants to lose weight and prays to God The Holy Spirit will immediately start assisting the person but if the spirit is willing and the flesh is weak failure will occur and soon the Holy Spirit might not help because the belief is not really there not even the faith of a mustard seed.
Some people are ready to move forward and others are not and that's okay
bodthe Koran was written by copying from the bible ,and Muhammad was influenced by his Christian relatives,
If that were true why would you reject it? See you prove my point your rejection is not based in reality. You are now calling the Quran a book based upon Christianity and then rejecting it although you are a Christian. WOW!Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 22 2012,02:36) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2012,22:38) Bod you are always trying to convince people that Islam is the truth and that Christians shouldn't oppose Islam because commonalities are too great to do that. And then on the other hand you try to expose every possible error and paint a picture of mistrust in the bible and the verses that indirectly contradict the teachings in the Koran. See how you pick a side that suits you and then change when it fits to do so.
I believe that consistency and open mindedness are good qualities and I try to live by that. I invite you to do the same.
Call a spade a space. Don't try to paint the best but different picture when it suits. Paint the picture you really believe, and then admit to changing that picture when you have truly learned something. That way, people would take you more seriously and trust you more.
T8I just showed you that the word “Son” referring to Jesus was also translated “Servant” in the updated thorough translation(More honest translation)
You still have not conceded that point but look:
(NKJV)
Acts 3:26
To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”It use to say:
Acts 3:26
King James Version (KJV)
26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Here we go again T8 or anyone else and believe me there are many more instances but I will only do one at a time. Why would anyone translate “Son” for “Servant” unless it was more accurate? Now if the Quran says God does not have a son and that all come before Him as servants and then the Bible proves that Servant can be mistranslated as “Son” what should I believe?
Hi BD,You PROVE over and over again that YOU are 'swayed' by corruption.
The Greek word [παῖδα] means “Son” not 'servant'!
Stick with the “AKJV Bible”!
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 22 2012,09:52) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,02:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 22 2012,09:24) Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 21 2012,22:34) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2012,07:11) Keep in mind that in the NT the men writing are writing according to what they remember they never say that God told them to write it or The Holy Spirit helped them write it. No, it says it is ALL inspired by God:
“Continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.”
Quote The Quran on the other hand is actually saying that God and the angels are directly revealing this so if you were to believe both you would do so with whomever is relaying the information at the time. Bod,
So what is the Spirit of Truth then? The Spirit of Truth is what draws us to the Scripture and to God. I was drawn to Scripture, and the Truth. However, when I tried to read the Quran, it was not the same, I just couldn't read it. I was not drawn to it.
What draws you Bod? And why the Quran when you were at one time a Christian?
If you were not ready or prepared to read the Quran it has nothing to do with The Holy Spirit, It has to do with your spirit and what I mean is if there are things in your life that you are working on and not just you I mean anyone and you have not overcome it yet it is not The Holy Spirit causing the delay it is the person.For instance if a person wants to lose weight and prays to God The Holy Spirit will immediately start assisting the person but if the spirit is willing and the flesh is weak failure will occur and soon the Holy Spirit might not help because the belief is not really there not even the faith of a mustard seed.
Some people are ready to move forward and others are not and that's okay
bodthe Koran was written by copying from the bible ,and Muhammad was influenced by his Christian relatives,
If that were true why would you reject it? See you prove my point your rejection is not based in reality. You are now calling the Quran a book based upon Christianity and then rejecting it although you are a Christian. WOW!
bodi follow the original NOT an imitation,
Pierre
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