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JA
i have a question to you only;if a servant like the high official second to the King ,the executor of the will and collector of all things for the king ,no one really sees the king ,but sees the high official most of the time ,and he execute the orders of the king so the people knows the king through his official does it not ,so what ever veneration they give that official his not addressed to that official but to the king,that official could be replaced if it please the king but the position remains intact ,and the principal will continue,and the people know that this his not the king but his representative.
in the case of Christ he is appointed in the official position by God and never to end,and no one as seen God
but there will be a time were we will see him in a way, thats wen Christ will turn and give all things over to his father,because then we will be pure and become his sons and daughters.that is what i understand
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 23 2010,18:31) LU, Jesus gave an explicit example – and for no simple reason, He knew people would as the same question.
He said ' You Shall Worship the Lord (God the Father) and Him only Shall you serve'The word “Shall” is a directive, equivalent to an order, something that is not desputable.
So, No, I don't think God would be pleased that we worship his Son, even if we mistakenly feel that we are worshipping Him by doing so.
Praise, honor, glorify the Son but Worship the Father!!
JustAskin,You wrote:
Quote Jesus gave an explicit example – and for no simple reason, He knew people would as the same question.
He said ' You Shall Worship the Lord (God the Father) and Him only Shall you serve'Do you serve your family?
Kathi
Hi Kathi! I just read the first few posts, so I don't know if anyone ever touched on John 1:1 and Hebrew 1:8-9
We all know what John 1:1 says and Hebrew 1:8 I will spell it out.
“But to the Son He said:” Your Throne O God is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your Kingdom.
verse 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness: Therefore God, Your God has anointed You with the oil of gladness more then your companions.Does that now mean that Jesus is as His Father. No. When we know that God is a title then we know that our Heavenly Father is above all and IMO always will be.
When every enemy will be captured Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father.
1 Corinth. 15:28 The end of this verse says so God can be all in all.
But IMO that does not mean that we will be like our Heavenly Father. IMO that verse has been very much misunderstood. Since the translators did not want to use Gods name in vain they used Lord and LORD in most cases. On that we can see that our Heavenly Father is above all Eph. 4:6.
I believe we will have God as a Family name IMO since we are the Sons of God it makes sense to me.
Peace and Love IreneLU,
What is it you are asking?
Is there still confusion about the difference between WORSHIP and all other forms of veneration?
Terra, my friend,
You need not speak to me in analogy because I believe the same as you.
What is it you are asking me? That it is ok to worship Jesus because he is in place of his Father in these times?If so, my response is 'not so'. Worship belongs to the Father and Him alone.
People feel sympathetic towards Jesus because he suffered and died for us and feel that we should worship him because if this.
If we do this then we fall into Satan's trap of getting us to do what he couldn't do – to take God's glory for himself, to get us to give God's glory to Jesus, to deny God his rightful worship.
Even so, with the analogy, has it been heard that such a thing ever occured, that the Steward was worshipped in place of the King?
Not even in Heaven, as revealed by John's vision in Revelation, was Jesus worshipped. Praise, honor, glory, riches, power, Yes, but worship – no!
Only 'He who sits on the throne' is worshipped – the sacrifice?, the twenty four elders casts their crowns before His throne signifying ultimate deference (Rev4:10-11 and 5:13)Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 23 2010,20:00) LU, What is it you are asking?
Is there still confusion about the difference between WORSHIP and all other forms of veneration?
JustAskin,It is really a simple question: Do you serve your family? Yes or No
Kathi
JustAskin, WoW! You truely need to read the New Testament more.Jesus's words; Mark 7;6 This people HONOURETH me with their lips, but their heart is far from me(7) in vain they WORSHIP me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Rev. 3;20 (Jesus's words) Behold , I stand at the door and knock; if ANY MAN hears my voice, and opend the door, I will come into Him, and will sup with him and he with me.
katjo
hi JUSTASKIN
YOU ARE VERY RIGHT ,in this NOT to worship Christ but only God the father ,it is a weakness of men to willingly worship something that seems closer to them like a person with special powers like Jesus was or even some apostles,Paul ex;and Satan spirit does not help he is floating all over the world affairs,yes stay focus on the father and only worship him and follow Christ orders and honor him because of the power he received from the father .amen.
katjo
is this the scriptures??MK 7:6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
MK 7:7 ‘BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’
MK 7:8 “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
MK 7:9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your traditionhe is talking about God is father.
but the last sentence may apply to trinitariansJustAskin,
Deut 6:13-15
13 “You shall fear only the Lord your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name.
14 “You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you,
15 for the Lord your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the Lord your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.
NASUNotice that the context here and see that the intention seems to be making a distinction between the Lord their God and the god's of the peoples that surround them.
I really don't think that the Son of God would fit in the category of being a god of the people that surrounds them, would you? He and the Father are one. They are not in competition with each other. The Son is not some foreign god but one with their Almighty.
Kathi
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2010,10:58) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2010,18:54) K
God the father is alone God and our lord is Jesus Christ also known as the WORD, amen.
t…and the Word was with God and was God! John 1:1
WJ
Hello! Going through some work I found a Scripture that is interesting. There are two Scriptures that I know where Jesus is being called God. John 1:1 and Hebrew 1:8-9
My understanding is that God is a title and both have other names. Then I found this Scripture, this Scripture is set in, because it has a star in front of it
Rev. 19:3 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is called “The Word of God.”
For a long time Mr. Armstrong had said that Jesus was the Spokesman for God, and in the Old Testament in many instances it is the Word who became Jesus speaking. Since He also said that nobody has heard the Fathers voice or seen His form except Him that is in Heaven. Rev. goes on and tells us that He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. But I still do believe that the Father is greater then the Son. For that reason Jesus deserves Honor and Glory, but worship IMO we should the Father.Ephesian 4:6 and John 14: 28 shows me that.
Peace and Love Irene
Terra, I thank you directly and through Christ for your supportive response.
If you had said otherwise I was willing to follow your God indpired guidance.
Blessings from God, through Christ.
katjo,
Do I serve my family, 'Yes', I provide a house and home, food, comforts, ethical and spiritual guidance, a listening ear, loving chastisement – and an allowance of boundary pushing so that they can live in this world (After all, it will be their own life that is judge – I cannot Save them, only provide the means by which they may be saved, if they chose of their own free will to use it)LU,
It seems that you seeking the Truth but you have not the Spirit of Truth.
When you have the Spirit of Truth, then you will believe.
Listen to Terra, he is right.
Before you read Scripture, pray in earnest for guidance of the Holy Spirit so that it is not your own ideas that form your understanding but that which is from God Himself.
When you pray, say something like:
'My Heavenly Father, Lord God Almighty,
I am a sinful one who is seeking You and your Truth.
As I search the Scriptures, please guide my thoughts
through the power of your Holy Spirit.
I thank you through your Son, Jesus Christ, Amen'Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 24 2010,04:27) katjo,
Do I serve my family, 'Yes', I provide a house and home, food, comforts, ethical and spiritual guidance, a listening ear, loving chastisement – and an allowance of boundary pushing so that they can live in this world (After all, it will be their own life that is judge – I cannot Save them, only provide the means by which they may be saved, if they chose of their own free will to use it)
JustAskin,
I'm sure that your response was meant for me because I was the one that asked the question.I am very happy to hear that you serve your family and that is very important. Do you see that even though the scripture says to serve God only, you can also serve others and that is not breaking His command? You don't seem to understand that with the whole verse about whom we are to serve and worship.
Kathi
J.A. The prayers is what most Christians should do, knowing that some believe in the trinity they must pray another way. However the trinity is not a God made doctrine but of a man. Serving your Family IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Kathi is right about that. Material things sometimes is not enough. And i see you do all of that. However I don't get why you are so critical of Kathi? I really know as a fact that She serves the Lord with all of Her Hearth. Whatever it is we should let God judge anyone if they do something that God does not like. How would you know anyway if Kathi has God's Holy Spirit or not? It is not our voice to judge…….
IreneQuote (Lightenup @ Jan. 24 2010,15:30) JustAskin, Deut 6:13-15
13 “You shall fear only the Lord your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name.
14 “You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you,
15 for the Lord your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the Lord your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.
NASUNotice that the context here and see that the intention seems to be making a distinction between the Lord their God and the god's of the peoples that surround them.
I really don't think that the Son of God would fit in the category of being a god of the people that surrounds them, would you? He and the Father are one. They are not in competition with each other. The Son is not some foreign god but one with their Almighty.
Kathi
Hi LU,
Jesus is the Son of God.
True he is united with God but so are you in him.[Jn17]
That does not make you God and neither does it make him GODQuote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 24 2010,15:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 24 2010,15:30) JustAskin, Deut 6:13-15
13 “You shall fear only the Lord your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name.
14 “You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you,
15 for the Lord your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the Lord your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.
NASUNotice that the context here and see that the intention seems to be making a distinction between the Lord their God and the god's of the peoples that surround them.
I really don't think that the Son of God would fit in the category of being a god of the people that surrounds them, would you? He and the Father are one. They are not in competition with each other. The Son is not some foreign god but one with their Almighty.
Kathi
Hi LU,
Jesus is the Son of God.
True he is united with God but so are you in him.[Jn17]
That does not make you God and neither does it make him GOD
Hi Nick,
True, unity with the Father does not make the Son a God. He got that by being a Son of God. That gave Him a divine nature and then the Father gave Him a kingdom and authority over those within it and the supernatural power necessary. Not to mention that even His Father refers to Him as God in Hebrews 1 and John 1:1. That doesn't mean that He is God as the Father is, but He is God as the Son.We have unity but not a kingdom, nor the inherent divine nature which we only will partake of later-it will not be an inherent nature that we originally had.
Kathi
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