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Nothing to see here folks.
Straight off the bat it is worth mentioning that words and languages evolve. A word that may well have been used to describe a pantheon of deities could then be used to describe the most high God when a people recognise that there is indeed one true God. It’s not hard to imagine people thinking their pantheon as being the Most High, but then realising that indeed there must be one that is above all. This may be the case here or not. But the word would not need to change because if the implcit meaning is most high, then if a single God is found to be above plural gods, then it is still the most high.
Let’s first look at other words we use today that seem to mix up singular and plural for whatever reason.
Words with both singular and plural usage
- sheep;
- cattle;
- deer;
- fish;
- trout;
- salmon;
- aircraft;
- spacecraft;
- tsunami;
- elohim;
- theos.
Would a person 3000 years from now studying our culture think that there was only one sheep in existence or that we only spoke about sheep with a plural usage and never in the context of a lone sheep? I doubt it. But people make all kinds of arguments about ‘elohim’ because they have a narrative they want to preserve, so use it to support their particular view.
But let’s take a close look at how ‘elohim’ or ‘theos’ are used in scripture. We clearly see that they are terms that can be applied to both the Most High God and other gods. For example, we read just that, ‘most high theos’ which implies there are many theos but for us, there is one theos. And guess what? This next verse uses the very same word for both plural and singular. So there you have it.
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
So while the biblical writers refer to the one true God, they also use the very same word for plural gods too. Here are some examples.
PLURAL
Elohim
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
Theos
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”‘?
Yet despite referring to plural gods, we also read the very same words used to describe a single God:
Singular
Elohim
“Hear oh, Israel, YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is ONE,”
Theos
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,”
This argument that elohim or theos shows that a pagan pantheon evolved into the one true God is a nothing burger. The one true God existed before any of these pagan pantheon deities and language is fluid.
Adam,
You said:
In short, Judaism and Christianity are absolutely built upon the tenet that there are no other gods but Yahweh. But the ancient Israelites, from whom Christianity grew from, did not seem to share those beliefs. In fact, Yahweh himself did not seem to share them in passages such as Exodus 20:3 – “You shall have no other gods before me”.
What do you say?
The words translated as “God/gods” have various meanings. I believe that the eternal creator God is YHVH which consists of the Father, Son, and their Spirit. Any other beings or things translated as god or gods are either man made idols, or beings that dwell in the spirit world that did not always exist and do not have power over YHVH.
LU
Proclaimer,
As is apparent in your last post, you have no idea about Greek plural nouns or singular nouns. Here is a picture of how the root word “theos” is changed in spelling to represent different uses of the word in the sentence. Please note that the singular form is not written the same as the plural form.
Hi Sis Kathi,
I believe that the eternal creator God is YHVH which consists of the Father, Son, and their Spirit.
I am not surprised about your statement above. But Hebrew Bible does not support these ideas on God Yahweh. I know our NT had created problem for us to believe all these strange ideas. This is where I am not convinced on these changed concepts on God in the NT.
Thanks and peace to you…..Adam
I am not surprised about your statement above. But Hebrew Bible does not support these ideas on God Yahweh. I know our NT had created problem for us to believe all these strange ideas.
Wrong. Name your no1 NT verse that supports the Trinity?
Hi Proclaimer,
Wrong. Name your no1 NT verse that supports the Trinity?
I am sorry I have not mentioned any Trinity in my post but I have stated that our NT supports deviated ideas on God. For example 2 Cor 13:13
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of[e] the Holy Spirit be with all of you.
Here Jesus is included in the doxology along with God. There are many such scriptures which support the exalted role of Jesus along with God in the NT which is not found in the Hebrew Bible for imposing such doxology to any other person along with God Yahweh.
Hi Proclaimer,
Straight off the bat it is worth mentioning that words and languages evolve. A word that may well have been used to describe a pantheon of deities could then be used to describe the most high God when a people recognise that there is indeed one true God. It’s not hard to imagine people thinking their pantheon as being the Most High, but then realising that indeed there must be one that is above all. This may be the case here or not. But the word would not need to change because if the implcit meaning is most high, then if a single God is found to be above plural gods, then it is still the most high.
So what are your comments on Deut 32: 8-10 on High God?
Hi Gadam
The God of the first testament IS the new testament
Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied before Pilate, who was of the opinion that he should be released.Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, by hanging him on a tree.Acts 13:17
The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers. He honored this people while they were in the land of Egypt, and brought them out with a mighty arm.Acts 24:14
I confess to you that I serve the God of my fathers according to the way they call a sect, believing all that is written in the law and in the prophets,GOD BLESS
Hi Adam,
So what are your comments on Deut 32: 8-10 on High God?
Yahweh is the Most High God.
“It was shown to you so that you might know
that Yahweh is God. There is no one else besides
him.”“Know therefore today, and take it to heart, that
Yahweh himself is God in heaven above and on
the earth beneath. There is no one else.”Deuteronomy 4:35;39
Hi Danny,
Yahweh is the Most High God.
“It was shown to you so that you might know
that Yahweh is God. There is no one else besides
him.”“Know therefore today, and take it to heart, that
Yahweh himself is God in heaven above and on
the earth beneath. There is no one else.”Deuteronomy 4:35;39
Please read Deut 32:8-9
When the Most High[Elyon] apportioned the nations,
when he divided humankind,
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of the gods;
9 the Lord’s[Yahweh] own portion was his people,
Jacob his allotted share.So who is this Most High[Elyon] mentioned in verse 8? Verse 9 shows the Lord[Yahweh]’s portion is Jacob. So Yahweh is only god for his people Israel?
Please read my earlier post on “Are Yahweh and El Distinct Deities in Deut. 32:8-9 and Psalm 82?”
Hi Adam,
So who is this Most High[Elyon] mentioned in verse 8? Verse 9 shows the Lord[Yahweh]’s portion is Jacob. So Yahweh is only god for his people Israel?
I gave you Deuteronomy 4:35;39.
The Bible is a harmony.
So again, Yahweh is the Most High God.By the way, first you attacked the Son Jesus,
now you are attacking Father Yahweh.
Why are you doing this?Remember we need BOTH, the Father and the Son.
(2 John 1:9)Danny……..Adam is not ‘attacking” anyone, He is bringing out what some “critical” textual scholars have derived from our scripture text’s that we have in possession and how they can be differently interpreted in there original language. let’s try to keep this about the posts not about the person who is posting it, especially if the person is only presenting it, for us to consider. Please remember these actual scholars are highly educated in the materials they are presenting .
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Hi Adam,
You said:
2 Cor 13:13
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of[e] the Holy Spirit be with all of you.
Here Jesus is included in the doxology along with God. There are many such scriptures which support the exalted role of Jesus along with God in the NT…Exactly! Two powers of YHVH along with the power of the Holy Spirit is also supported in the OT.
Danny……..Adam is not ‘attacking” anyone, He is bringing out what some “critical” textual scholars have derived from our scripture text’s that we have in possession and how they can be differently interpreted in there original language. let’s try to keep this about the posts not about the person who is posting it, especially if the person is only presenting it, for us to consider. Please remember these actual scholars are highly educated in the materials they are presenting .
Thank you brother Gene for understanding my reason behind posting such critical arguments on our Biblical texts. In fact these are of some the issues I am struggling to understand since my early Christian life.
Thanks and peace to you….Adam
All……..I believe the problem exists in the meaning of the word God itself. When people try to make that word out to be a “person”, instead of what the words “itself” actually means, then comes in the confusions.
let’s look at what the original word for God actually meant, The original word was first found in the Hebrew language, as a “pictorial ” image, it was a picture of a “OX” head, with a SHEPPARD’S “STAFF” leaning into it.
The “WORD” GOD……please listen……Does not describe a PERSON, IT DESCRIBES A “personal “, “RELATIONSHIP” between a “person” “place” or “thing”, THE WORD “GOD” IS A “DESCRIPTOR” of a relationship, and can be ascribed unto “anything” that you contribute , your Power to, and you lean on for your power and support . That can be your money, home, your family, your Job, your Government, your nation, your hand made idols, and on and endlessly on and on it goes, Any of those thing can be a GOD “TO” YOU. It only requires you believe in it’s power and you trusting it, then it’s “YOUR” GOD. JUST THAT SIMPLE.
BUT UNTO US “TRUE” BELIEVERS THERE IS “ONLY” ONE TRUE GOD, and that is “YAHOVAH” OUR “ONLY” TRUE GOD. It is him and him alone who we trust in for our power and strength .
Just that simple, trying to make it out to be different is just false teachers and their false teachings.
peace and love to you all and yours………Gene
Hi Adam,
LU said:
I believe that the eternal creator God is YHVH which consists of the Father, Son, and their Spirit.
You said:
I am not surprised about your statement above. But Hebrew Bible does not support these ideas on God Yahweh. I know our NT had created problem for us to believe all these strange ideas. This is where I am not convinced on these changed concepts on God in the NT.
Well, I am glad that you can admit that what I wrote is supported in the NT. I believe that you are one of the few that can see that here. I hope you come to see that Jesus fulfills the prophecies of the promised Messiah in the OT. Keep seeking.
God bless, LU
Gene,
I agree with your last post. The important thing about what god you serve is that YHVH is the one name of the true God that should be served. I do believe that two persons are identified in the Bible by that name, as well as their Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and their Holy Spirit are together, YHVH.
The Father identifies the Son as YHVH, and I agree with God our Father.
Blessings, LU
Gene
You
BUT UNTO US “TRUE” BELIEVERS THERE IS “ONLY” ONE TRUE GOD, and that is “YAHOVAH” OUR “ONLY” TRUE GOD. It is him and him alone who we trust in for our power and strength .
Me
If we only confess the Father, can we be saved?
Thé Bible BY John say
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1John1: 3Berean……….Here is why I believe what Jesus told us, ‘ the words I am telling you are “NOT”, my words , but the words of, him ( God the Father) that sent me”. NOT because I think he is some kind of a God or the Essenes of another God . I believe he has a GOD, AND IT IS THE EXACT SAME GOD AS MINE, and he is not, my Heavenly Father, nor is he my God either. Never was nor ever will be either. But he certainly is my brother in God “OUR” Father.
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
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