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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,07:08) HMMM! Where is JA? Is he hiding now?
WJ
WJ,What has JA to say? He admitted that Jesus Christ is God “representatively.” This means that Jesus is owed the same homage as if He was God Himself for He acts in the place of God.
What I enjoy about debating with anti-trinitarians is that is so easy to show up there insincerity. When they say things like, “Jesus is God representatively” they are not at all interested in what it means and what it implies. They just want to poke holes in Christ's Lordship as if their admission that He is God “representatively” would accomplish that.
We may take JA's definition of worship as an example of his insincerity. He defined worship as “giving oneself ENTIRELY as a sacrifice.” Then when it was shown Him that Christ required this from His disciples JA started playing games with his own words.
I love it man!
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
OK so it means Jesus was a man.
Then he was not God as our God is not a man.
He was the Word who “BECAME flesh.” You know what John says about the Word (John 1:1-3).thinker
Hi TT,
So that does not mean that God was encased in flesh but that Jesus, the son of God was conceived of Mary by God's Spirit. Mary was no surrogate but really his mother.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:53) Hi TT,
So that does not mean that God was encased in flesh but that Jesus, the son of God was conceived of Mary by God's Spirit. Mary was no surrogate but really his mother.
You know that your depiction of trinitarianism is a caricature and a misrepresentation.God desires truthfulness from the “inwards part of the belly.”
You are losing the argument Nick.
thinker
Hi TT,
Winning arguments is a petty earthly aim.
Why not raise your sights towards heaven and do not cause others to stumble?WJ,TT,
You are calling for me?Sorry, I was laughing so much I lost track of time.
Actually, I was on my way home from work. Did you miss me that much?
JW, what is wrong with the God inspired definition of Worship that I gave?
What does John 4:24 say that contradicts anything that I have written? Do you not read exactly the same thing: 'In Spirit and Truth'.
In fact, there is nothingnin what you are saying.
All you are doing is raising an empty glass to yourself claiming you have something. If you have something, then it is against the Holy Spirit so be careful how you play, for the Scriptures say: 'Do not Grieve the Holy Spirit!'.
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 22 2010,16:55) WJ,TT,
You are calling for me?Sorry, I was laughing so much I lost track of time.
Actually, I was on my way home from work. Did you miss me that much?
JW, what is wrong with the God inspired definition of Worship that I gave?
What does John 4:24 say that contradicts anything that I have written? Do you not read exactly the same thing: 'In Spirit and Truth'.
In fact, there is nothingnin what you are saying.
All you are doing is raising an empty glass to yourself claiming you have something. If you have something, then it is against the Holy Spirit so be careful how you play, for the Scriptures say: 'Do not Grieve the Holy Spirit!'.
JAWhat you are saying is the scriptures say Jesus was not worshipped, so therefore we should not worship him!
Isn't that right?
You want to give a different definition of the word for Worship when the Apostles use the word for Jesus than Jesus own words in Jn 4:24.
Yes you should be careful not to grieve the Holy Spirit by saying the Apostles should not have worshipped Jesus when scriptures say they did!
We live by the examples in the scriptures by following the Apostles examples. How about you?
Blessings WJ
TT,
I have no idea what you are about.
I don't know how you come about to claim that I am saying that Jesus is God.
I have a very clear vision of God and Christ and all my posts are in line with that vision because they are supported by the Holy Spirit.
That is not to say that I have ALL knowledge of the Scriptures and the deep things of God – no one man has that, as the scriptures say that revelation of the scriptures is given to different people at different times (That is, different ages).
When I asked the question: 'As what did Jesus die, God or Man', you could barely respond with anything resembling sense, even claiming that actually, Jesus didn't die but went off preaching to the dead in hades from Noah's days, and that Jonah in the great fish was a direct analogy of Jesus in the grave.
How many times do I write:
Did Jonah die in the great fish?, no.
Did Jesus die on the cross?, yes.Did Jonah cry out for God(?) to save him while in the fish?, yes.
Did Jesus cry out from the grave for God(?) to save him?, no – He was dead!Jonah was in the fish because he disobeyed God.
Was Jesus in then grave because He disobeyed God(?)?How can anyone listen to anything you say when something as simple and 'raw' as:
Jesus is God's representative (You changed my word to 'representatively')
to mean Jesus IS God?
That is amazing. A representative is a representative.
The United States embassador is not the President himself, for are there not many 'embassadors' from one country. Are there then many Presidents, or, are there then many Gods?In your world, the representative IS the sender himself. Does that mean that the representative have the right to make love to the senders wife…after all, he IS her husband, 'representatively'.
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,03:49) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,23:44) This is what Jesus said: Quote 8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Jesus is God's Christ or representative and when we obey him we are obeying God's Word.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Therefore Jesus Christ is God representatively. No degree in rocket science is needed to understand this.thinker
Hi thethinker:Why are you trying to twist what I posted in order to justify your doctrine. What I said is that Jesus is God's representative. He is not God himself. And Jesus stated in the scripture that I posted that it is God who we are to worship. We do serve God when we obey Jesus as God's representative. And also this is what is meant by Philippians 2 which states that Jesus was in the “form of God”. To be in the form of God does not make that person God.
It is like this:
Luke 9:48 (King James Version)
48And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2010,17:23) Hi WJ,
Really?
You follow the carnal men who were yet to be baptised in the Spirit?
Interesting.
NHDid Jesus rebuke them or stop them or correct them!
He recieved their worship!
How about you?
t8 and LU worship him and they are not even Trinitarians!
WJ
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,17:31) And also this is what is meant by Philippians 2 which states that Jesus was in the “form of God”. To be in the form of God does not make that person God. Marty
MartyTo be in the form of God does not mean that he isn't God.
The Father is in the form of God isn't he.
God has a form my friend!
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice “nor seen his form“, John 5:37
Being in the form of God is proof of his deity!
That term is not used of any other!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
So we copy what they did and that is enough?
Is that really the sort of worship that you think God deserves?
I though you knew that true worshipers worship the Father in spirit and truth?WJ,
Why do you ask me to say that I am saying that Jesus should not be worshipped.
You have read what I said to Kathi.
Everything is there.
You are just trying to put pages between what has been said and now because you know that most people don't read back more than a few, if that, pages.
There is no reason to ask me what you are asking me.
You aren't even raising anything like a credible challenge, you are just asking me to repeat myself hoping that I will write something you can try to get me on… Hey, bring it on!
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 22 2010,17:39)
WJ,Why do you ask me to say that I am saying that Jesus should not be worshipped.
You have read what I said to Kathi.
Yes, you told her she should not worship Jesus but only God the Father, did you not?WJ
Hi WJ,
Carnal men are not led by God's Spirit but make their own ideas into paths.
You must be born again.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2010,12:47) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 22 2010,11:59)
It is necessary to give additional guidance to some posters here.
The Capitalise “GOD” or “God” is used to denote “God Almighty”, YHWH, Jehovah.
The non-capitalised 'god' can mean any sentient creature (Jesus, Angels, mankind) that is NOT God Almighty (as in “a god”, “a God”)Is there soething wrong with that so that we write things in the right way so there is no misunderstanding or pr meaning of terms and phrases and spellings – clarity of writing and understanding leads to Truth.
JaYes this is what you said before.
I gave you scriptures where Jesus is called God with capitol “G”.
Here is only a couple of them…
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, “The mighty **God**“, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and “the Word was **God**.“ John 1:1
“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O **God**“, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
Thank you for agreeing with most all of the Translators and Translations.
You are correct. Jesus is “God”.
Blessings WJ
JAYou say “Bring it on”.
Why have you not responded to this post?
Blessings WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2010,17:39) Hi WJ,
So we copy what they did and that is enough?
Is that really the sort of worship that you think God deserves?
I though you knew that true worshipers worship the Father in spirit and truth?
NHRemember that is what they were doing to Jesus using the same word “proskyneō”.
Are you calling t8 and LU carnal also?
WJ
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