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Hello,
Sometimes this comparison comes to my mind and maybe it would help now.This is not a perfect apples to apples comparison so just try to get the gist of it.
Think of being deity like being royalty, ya know, like some countries have the royal family.
If you are the king in this royal family and you have an only child, a boy, the son would also be equally royalty…right?! Even though the king is quite different than the prince they both are equally royalty. They both have the royal blood. The king has a greater honor while the prince is growing up and then one day, the prince becomes king and he gets just as much honor as his father but will never be his father or equal to his father, he will be equally royalty.That is the closest analogy that I have to the reason the Son of God is deity…He was begotten into being deity, sort of like the prince was begotten into being royalty.
Just thought I'd add that.
KathiNick,
I could be adopted into the royal family and become royalty that way, but, I would never be royalty by original flesh of the king's flesh, blood of his blood. See the difference. I will still get an inheritance but can never be royalty by original birth.Hi LU,
If you become one with the Son of God you will share everything he is.
But we will not worship you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2010,22:08) Hi LU,
If you become one with the Son of God you will share everything he is.
But we will not worship you.
Nick,
No, I won't share everything He is. Will I have an eternal throne? Will I have anyone calling me worthy of opening the scroll? Will I be the gate? Will I be the shepherd? Will I be the way, the truth , the life? Will I be able to give eternal life to anyone because of what I did?I will certainly not share everything He is. Where did you get that?
Nick,
Col 3:1
3 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
NASU
This does not say what you just said. We are not seated at the right hand of God in the future. That place is for Christ. We will not be on the throne.Hi LU,
The Spirit of Christ is one.
The head of the body is by the throne of God joined with those in him.
God is in him and he is in God and in the same way we share that wonderful Spiritual communion.[Jn17]Nick,
Doesn't scripture say that the Son of God is seated on His throne? Do you think that you are going to be equal to Christ, is Christ just another saint in heaven?Wow, I just now saw this reference of Jesus as “the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets. Another verse referring to Jesus as God. Compare these two passages:
Quote Rev 22:6
6 And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His(Jesus) angel to show to His(Jesus) bond-servants the things which must soon take place.
NASUQuote Rev 1:1-2
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him (Jesus) to show to His(Jesus) bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He(Jesus) sent and communicated it by His(Jesus) angel to His(Jesus) bond-servant John,
2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
NASUQuote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2010,15:52) Wow, I just now saw this reference of Jesus as “the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets. Another verse referring to Jesus as God. Compare these two passages: Quote Rev 22:6
6 And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His(Jesus) angel to show to His(Jesus) bond-servants the things which must soon take place.
NASUQuote Rev 1:1-2
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him (Jesus) to show to His(Jesus) bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He(Jesus) sent and communicated it by His(Jesus) angel to His(Jesus) bond-servant John,
2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
NASU
Yes, Kathi also
Rev. 19:13 which goes real well with John 1:1
He was clothed with a rob dipped in Blood and His name is The Word of God. Someone a long time ago used to say that the Word who became Jesus in verse 14 was the Spokesman for God. And in the Old Testament lots of times when it says God it is the Word or Spokesman of God. (Jesus)
Love Ireneall
if you would understand all of the scriptures ,about Christ and the prophets ,you would see that all your arguments are right and that you fighting on words not with understanding.God can not lie neither,can his spirit.
it is true that god is only a title and could be applied in and to many different persons,beingsQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,08:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2010,16:10) Hi WJ,
They knew from Ps2 the unusual nature of God's Son given full authority on earth to work as God's agent. They should have known from the same verses that he was not that God. Do you?
NHAre you calling John a liar?
He is the one that narrated Jesus being equal to God!
How can any being be equal to God and not be God?
WJ
WJ,Yes indeed. It is John who said that Jesus made Himself equal with God. If he was wrong then we cannot trust his narratives elsewhere.
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 18 2010,10:25) WJ, I see that all your trinitarians 'proofs' have come down to one verse: John 1:1!
LIE!See WJ's impressive list of verses on page 31 of this thread. When JA has no arguments he either engages in name calling or lies about things.
I call JA to sincerity and step up and admit that by his own definition of worship Jesus required worship from men.
Be a man about it JA. Stop playing games with your own words.
thinker
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2010,13:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,10:08) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 17 2010,17:49) There is not a single hint nor suggestion that anyone (including Matthew) of them thought that Jesus was God – or a God of any sort.
JAWhy did John write John 1:1?
Of course his enemys didn't think that Jesus was God, yet they accused him by his own words that he was making himself equal to God by calling God his Father!
Read your Bible and go and see what the Jew believed it meant for someone to claim God was their “OWN” Father!
They believed that Jesus was saying he was equal to the Father and the Apostle John clarified what it meant for him to say that God was his Father! John 5:23
Blessings WJ
Wj,
Do you think John thought Jesus was God? Read John 20:31.
And Jesus explained his thoughts in John 5:23 with a parable about a man renting out his vineyard to some farmers. After beating or killing the other servants, the man thought: I'll send my son, him they'll respect.
Get it? In 5:23, Jesus is saying honor me because of who my father is. And because I'm HIS son.
Mike,You prove nothing. In Hebrew thought the son was equal to the father. This is why the apostle John said that Jesus made Himself EQUAL with God by calling God His own Father.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,20:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,08:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2010,16:10) Hi WJ,
They knew from Ps2 the unusual nature of God's Son given full authority on earth to work as God's agent. They should have known from the same verses that he was not that God. Do you?
NHAre you calling John a liar?
He is the one that narrated Jesus being equal to God!
How can any being be equal to God and not be God?
WJ
WJ,Yes indeed. It is John who said that Jesus made Himself equal with God. If he was wrong then we cannot trust his narratives elsewhere.
thinker
Hi Thinker,What bible are you and WJ reading out of?
Do you guy's just dismiss these verses as if they are not there?John 14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me,
ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I(Jesus).John 10:29: My (Jesus')Father, which gave
them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.TT wrote: “… In Hebrew (sic -[they]) thought the son was equal to the father. This is why the apostle John said that Jesus made Himself EQUAL with God by calling God His own Father.”
So, clearly they were wrong that the Son is Equal to the Father. So if they are clearly wrong – does this make it TRUE?
Just because they thought it – that makes it true???Doctor to patient: “How did you burn your hand”
Patient to doctor: “I thought that the red hot coal was cool to the touch so I grasped at it!!”TT,
Adding to EDJ's.
Jesus tells them quite clearly – explicitly:
“The Father is GREATER THAN I” and they can't understand that?
“The Father … is GREATER THAN ALL”? and they can't understand that?
But they can somehow understand because Jesus calls God his Father that means he is Equal to the Father?Jesus stands in front of them and states his relative position in regard to God, his Father – and they maintain their false belief that he is Equal.
So, TT, do we believe the Jews/Hebrews or do we believe Jesus?
Also, just for the sake of askin', where does it say in the Scriptures that the Hebrews thought that the Son was equal to the Father?
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2010,20:44) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,20:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2010,08:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2010,16:10) Hi WJ,
They knew from Ps2 the unusual nature of God's Son given full authority on earth to work as God's agent. They should have known from the same verses that he was not that God. Do you?
NHAre you calling John a liar?
He is the one that narrated Jesus being equal to God!
How can any being be equal to God and not be God?
WJ
WJ,Yes indeed. It is John who said that Jesus made Himself equal with God. If he was wrong then we cannot trust his narratives elsewhere.
thinker
Hi Thinker,What bible are you and WJ reading out of?
Do you guy's just dismiss these verses as if they are not there?John 14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me,
ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I(Jesus).John 10:29: My (Jesus')Father, which gave
them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
ED J,The apostle John said that Jesus made Himself EQUAL with God.
The word “greater” does not necessarily imply superiority. Jesus told His disciples that they would do “greater” works than His own. This was not true qualitatively but rather quantitatively.
The Father was not qualitatively greater than Jesus. In His flesh Jesus was limited. So the Father was greater quantitatively.
John explicitly said that Jesus made Himself EQUAL with God. Thomas addressed JESUS saying, “My Lord and my God.”
I guess that Thomas was an idolater.
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 19 2010,02:35) TT wrote: “… In Hebrew (sic -[they]) thought the son was equal to the father. This is why the apostle John said that Jesus made Himself EQUAL with God by calling God His own Father.” So, clearly they were wrong that the Son is Equal to the Father. So if they are clearly wrong – does this make it TRUE?
Just because they thought it – that makes it true???Doctor to patient: “How did you burn your hand”
Patient to doctor: “I thought that the red hot coal was cool to the touch so I grasped at it!!”
So the apostle John was wrong then? It was JOHN who said that Jesus made Himself equal with God.In Hebrew culture the son possessed EQUAL ownership with the father and was therefore distinguished from the servants (Matthew 21).
So I am not interested in your Western view of father and son relationships. I am interested only in the socio-historical implications underlying Jesus' claim to be God's ONLY Son. Dump your Western thoughts and immerse yourself in the culture of the day. This is all that counts.
thinker
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