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Hi,
Lets look at what we can learn on this interesting subject. I believe it is the sabbath rest of Hebrews 4 which Paul exhorts us to make sure of our election into. It only involves those of the first resurrection but perhaps those who survive the great tribulation will be present too-if any survive?It is a 1000 year timespan when all is put right on the 'new' earth and complete order is restored before the kingdom is given back to the Father. Satan is bound and unable to accuse us or create mayhem, the lion lies down with the lamb. We have our heavenly bodies etc.
Hi,
Anyone keen to share what they know on this subject-it is the promised sabbath rest of Hebrews 4?Hi,
Rev 20.4
” And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them and judgement was given to them.
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the Word of God and those who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for 1000 years”
This is the next big event after the final days in God's appointment book.ps Is 11.6
” And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together and a little boy will lead them. Also the cow and the bear will graze, their young will lie down together;and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will piut his hand on the viper's den”
The return of safety among the animals and the domination and killing of the weak by the strong will be no more. Such fear will not exist.
Is 65.20
” No longer will be there in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his days…The wolf and the lamb shall graze together and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall do no evil or harm in all My Holy mountain 'says the Lord”
All this is because Satan will be bound for the 1000 years.Hi,
1Cor 15.24f
“then come the end when he delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when he has abolished all rule and all authority and power.For he must rule until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death”
So since those in the first resurrection do not die the reference to death here and in Is 65.20 is to the natural men who survive the great tribulation?Hi Kenrch.
You've asked me about the millenial reign a couple of times. There isn't a lot written here, but this would be a good place to have such a discussion.REVELATION 20:1-8
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
7 Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.Kenrch has asked if we are living in the millenium now–if the millenium has begun. Any comments?
Quote (david @ Jan. 22 2006,02:26) Hi Kenrch.
You've asked me about the millenial reign a couple of times. There isn't a lot written here, but this would be a good place to have such a discussion.REVELATION 20:1-8
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
7 Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.Kenrch has asked if we are living in the millenium now–if the millenium has begun. Any comments?
David,You know the only reason I asked that question was to get your thoughts on that Idea. Afterall I heard that from the disciples of the founder of the JWs. The International Bible Students who claim that they are the real disciples of Charles Tase Russell. I think it was Judge Ruderfured, I know that's misspelled but you know who I'm talking about or do I have to look him up again? Anyway it seems that the judge changed Charlie's doctrines and invented the Watch Tower. If anyone would like to contact the IBS they have a web site “Bible Today”.
When I asked one of the “Real Disciples” of Pastor Russell, he told me that the millenium started in 1874. The Jws are big on dates also aren't they David? Seems that the two groups have a lot in common. Didn't the Jws predict that the world was going to end a couple of times, David?
Deu 18:22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.I'm sorry if I offended somehow Kenrch. That was not my intent–I wanted simply to know what others thought.
As I've already said, Jehovah's Witnesses are disciples (followers) of Christ, not any man–meaning we follow the teachings of Christ.
If the IBS claim to be disciples of Charles T. Russel, a great “man” who has been dead for some time, but a “man” nonetheless, then this presents a problem.
Judge Rutherford was not “the judge,” as you say, but his first name was Judge.
He did not 'invent the Watch Tower,' if you mean the magazine. In July 18,79, 27-year-old Russell began publishing Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence (now known as The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom), which from the beginning has upheld Scriptural truth.
If however you mean that Judge Rutherford invented the Watchtower Society, or the group more commonly known as Jehovah's Witnesses, that's not true either. We are as different from Rutherfords time as we were from Russels time to Rutherfords time. It's true that we have refined, clarifed, and continued to shed worldly influences, false beliefs, pagan holidays, etc, and a lot of that happened around the time of Rutherford. But it continued long after. And it started before him, with Russel.
It's true that we as imperfect humans have had wrong expectations, even as the early Christians did. Remember when they asked Jesus: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” (Acts 1:6) They were a bit eager for the kingdom, even as we are.
You say: “Seems that the two groups have a lot in common.” Before we took on the distinctive name Jehovah's Witnesses, we were known as the International Bible Students Association. We have some big differences. Our worship involves more than studying the Bible. We follow Jesus' example of telling others the truth about his Father, Jehovah. Hence, the name.Kenrch, I was wondering why they believe that we have entered the millenial reign.
david.
Is Heb 4:1-10 speaking of the Millennial rest to come (1000 years of peaceful reign with Christ)?
I am sure it could well be speaking of such a time to come.
I think it also has application to the believers in Christ right now, in particular verses 9 – 10
Jesus told the people in his day that the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath, so that fits well into him being the King during the 1000 year sabbath reign.
He is also our Lord at present and we are told by Paul :
“And to those who are troubled rest with us …”
Jesus told us : “Come to me you who are weary and heavily burdened and I will give you rest, take my yoke upon you for my yoke is easy and my burden is light and you shall find rest for your soul.”
When we take the yoke of Christ upon us and follow him in our lives, we have a rest, a peace that passes understanding. So then for us at present the rest is Christ, and in the 1000 years reign with him, the rest will be in Christ, in his kingdom.
That's my 2 cents worth…:DHi,
This is a time not to be missed [Heb 4 1f]. 1000yrs as rulers [cf Lk 19.12 f]and judges under the authority of Christ to tidy up the mess Satan has made of earth.Just a quick question again Nick. We probably discussed this, but I don't remember. Who do these rulers rule? Who do these judges judge?
Do you consider this 1000 years to be “judgement day?”Hi david,
Those who go up against Israel and surround the City of Jerusalem only to be destroyed at the return of Jesus are armies only. Life continues for the ordinary man on the street. The resurrected rulers and priests rule in their immortal new bodies for 1000 years and then there is the second resurrection and the final judgement.7 Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.
These verses show that there will be enough evil followers of Satan at the end that they are likened in number to the sand of the sea. It also hints at what the population of the earth during this time will be comprised of.
If the earth is inhabited by primarily the elect in resurrected bodies it doesn't seem likely that such a grand deception and mutiny would occur. It seems more likely that the population would be those surviving the tribulation period – believers or otherwise and a select number of saints. Those martyred and others. I don't get the impression that all believers from time passed would be raised to judge.
So, it seems that there will still be some wheat and tares in the millenial earth. The select group of saints will rule with Christ here on earth as they righteously judge those outside of New Jerusalem. And then mankind reveals his quality one last time. After a thousand years living in an ever improving state of paradise where the lion lays next to the children and the Son of God himself rules physically a number of people (millions + from the sounds of the above verse) still think it's a good idea to rebel. Mankind never ceases to amaze.
Anyway, my impression from those verses and the posts so far lead me in this direction. Please, post any comments or corrections. What do you all think of this scenario?
God Bless
Hi Jefe,
I agree. The saints will live 1000yrs as rulers and judges administering the earth under Christ but the survivors among the nations, remember only the armies around Jerusalem are wiped out, continue to propagate, live and die, till death is destroyedThis 1000 year reign of peace is akin to the flood of Noah.
Sin still came up the other side in the flood.
So is this millennium – after the 1000 years Satan is loosed for a time to have another try.
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