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Quote Sister Journey42, Base with your reasoning and arguments, it seem you had forgotten that there was an event happened during the time of worship congregation, Jesus look upon treasure box where the gifts of offering of the the donors placed for the maintenance of the church and the daily operational needs.
Here is the testimony of the Bible.
1And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. 3So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; 4for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.”
Ref: Luke 21:1-4 NKJV.LJ Brother,
Jesus was teaching in a Jewish temple, not his own temple. The Jewish rabbis, scribes and pharisees were against him, they were anti-christ. Why would Christ want them to take money of the people to expand?
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
So Jesus looked up and saw this woman giving what little she had. The focus here was not giving to the church, but the fact this woman gave all that she had (which was very little) for those rich that gave, they have more money, but that woman who gave, gave all that she had. She had charity in her heart. Money was not her security.
Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, He said,
Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.What good were the riches of that temple in the end? Christ told them that it was going to be destroyed, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. The riches of the church can not save them.
The same will also happen at the 2 coming. Everything will be destroyed (rev chapter 18)Quote FYI: The true church will not curse the believers if they could not able to do the gifts of offering during the congregation worship services. The church did not commanded their members not to attend the worship services if they have nothing to offer. God knows who has nothing.
Yes, but this is not how the general public feel. There is that person holding the money tin watching, and the people sitting next to you watching, all eyes are on you, and this is intimidating. Have you ever been poor? Do you know what it feels like to have people look at you? To attract attention because you are without? Most avoid it. This is reality.
Do those churches take that money and give it to the poor person that comes in?Quote Sharing our wealth to the church for the missionary works of the Lord God, is a commandment of God.Sharing our wealth to the church for the missionary works of the Lord God, is a commandment of God.
For those apostles who had to spread the word, yes. They needed a little helping hand. The word is spread now already. I've been trying to tell you that. We are at the end now. We are in the last days now. We know the signs. You are still defending the church, we are trying to reach people with the truth.Quote We must be believed that all the treasures here on earth originally belong to God, and from God.
Of course they are. You cannot buy your way into heaven by giving to the church. Give to your neighbour, to anyone in need. Giving is not only money, but help, time, compassion, comfort, need. And we are to do it quietly, not for all to see. The churches have enough money, there's people who can't eat. If the churches happen to help them, they advertise it to everyone. They collect money of the people to do it anyway, whilst their real money is in the bank collecting interest, and invested in properties.Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
The churches are laying up for themselves. Gaining interest in the bank, and spreading their own religions, and not the truth.
2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Don't take this personally LJ, there is a lot of this going on. Protect the truth, not the church, for everything is not always as it appears. Especially to the congregation. Are you a pastor?
lmj
Quote Many people in this world proclaiming that there were gathering in the name of Christ Jesus. those are surface ,pretenders,not really true believers ,Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message
WE ARE THOSE WHO ARE IN RECIEVERSHIP OF THAT MESSAGE AND THE APOSTLES ARE THE MAIN PILLARS OF CHRIST CHURCH,NO MEN CAN REPLACE THERE MESSAGE BECAUSE THEY HAVE GIVEN THAT MESSAGE UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ,SHOW ME WERE IS THERE A CHURCH THAT HIS INSTITUDED BY GOD'S SON TODAY ???IF SO HOW COME NO ONE CAN COME TO GOD WITHOUT THE MESSAGE OF THE APOSTLES
CAN WE FIND LIVE FOR OUR SOULS OUT SIDE OF GODS WORD (SCRIPTURES) NO;THEN ANYONE THAT USES THAT WRITTEN WORD OF GOD TRANSMITTED THROUGH THE APOSTLES HIS USESING WHAT IS NOT HIS AND SO HIS NOT A TRUE REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD OR CHRIST ON EARTH,BUT A DECEIVER ,A PRETENDER TO BE OF GOD BUT HIS NOT .
Quote Find the true preachers sent by God, nowadays with his divine credential, the pattern to determine which is the true preachers, specially made by God. –limjunis
If they are true preachers sent by God, why would I have to find them? Won't they find me? (Mat 28:18,20; mat 24:14)
ANY TREASURES ON THE EARTH ARE OF ;Mt 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
Mt 4:9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”“if you will bow down and worship me.”
WOULD IT BE THAT THOSE WHO MAKING THEIR GLORY IN THIS WORLD ARE IN THE PRACTICE OF WORSHIPPING THE DEVIL,AND SO DECEIVED BY THE GREED IN THEIR HEARTS
Quote (limjunus @ Oct. 20 2012,18:21) Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2012,17:52) Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 24 2012,17:54) Romans 10:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The step by step procedure before we can be saved.
The very essential procedures in making us the true believers of Christ.
Isn't this a quote from the OT? Joel I think.And, in the OT, in the original writing, they use Gods name YhWH, not LORD. The same scripture from Joel is also quoted in acts.
Welcome David,The issue is the “messenger of God” and we are not discussing the name of God.
Focus with the issue, the importance of the true preachers sent by God. and the relevant issue with the true church of Christ.
Thank you and feel at home.
Yes, but in the second post, you say:“Jesus Christ and his apostles have warned us long time ago. “There shall be false preachers and false Christ coming up in this world, deceiving people as many as they can. One of their mission is keeping the people of the world for not knowing the one and only true God. (2-Cor. 10:4-5 NLT)”
You say the mission of the false teachers is to keep the people from the world of knowing God.
But, this was my point. The scripture quoted was quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures. And, in that quote, we find God's name. Yet, probably both in the Hebrew Scriptures and in the NT where that scripture is quoted, Gods name was removed. (Unless you think the NT writer, altered the quote and removed Gods name when quoting from the OT).
Do you think hiding the fact that the God of the bible has a name, will help people to become closer to God, or do you think it will keep the people of the world from knowing God?
Quote (limjunus @ Oct. 20 2012,20:00) Quote (journey42 @ Oct. 20 2012,18:03) Greetings LJ, [a.] If we want to find out more about him, we get hold of a bible, for this is the only place where one can meditate on his message, and word.
This is our source, the bible contains the word of God, and we feed on this word. This word then gets imprinted onto our hearts, and it goes everywhere with us, in every decision we make.
[c.] If we tell people that they do not need to read the very words spoken to us, and the only place where we can find salvation is in a church then we do God a disservice.
for we then forget this message
Sister Journey42,Acknowledging your greetings.
comment with [a.]
But the Bible is silent that it is enough for us to just read the printed words of God (Bible)then period. The Bible is voicing loud that we should to be heard His words from the preacher whom he had sent. (Ref: Book of Isaiah 8:20 and Book of Romans 10;14-15, 17 NKJV/ John 3:34 NCV).
[/B]The One whom God sent speaks the words of God, because God gives him the Spirit fully. The true preachers sent by God, did not just read but spoken the words of God, to the concern people.
Comment for
Imprinted unto our hearts by whom?
The words of God, could be imprinted into our hearts not by just our own reading and after reading we are going to hold on and believing to what we have understood accompany by our own conclusion without hearing it from the so called preachers sent by God. We should not hold on with our own ideas and ways of thinking, we need to obey and surrender our will with what the words of God, commanding us to follow. The will of God, must be prevail. Here is the God's will.
and before they can believe in him, they must hear about him; and for them to hear about the Lord, someone must tell them;15 and before someone can go and tell them, that person must be sent.
17 So, faith comes from listening, but it’s listening by means of Christ’s message.
Faith or beliefs comes from hearing, listening the words of God, preached by the messenger/s truly sent by God, and not by just reading the Bible. The words of God, could be printed in our hearts by listening to the gospel preached by the true preachers of God, after we have believe to what we have heard, the holy spirit will be sealed to us.
Here is another God's will. Ref: Eph 1:13 GNT.
And you also became God's people when you heard the true message, the Good News that brought you salvation. You believed in Christ, and God put his stamp of ownership on you by giving you the Holy Spirit he had promised.
Therefore, just reading the Bible is not the will of God, to become the chosen people of God.
Comment for [c.]
The Bible did not said, that the people should not read the Bible. We can read the Bible freely, but it is not the only way to have the right understanding with the will of God.
The Bible also did not says, that the church is the only place where we can get the salvation of our souls. Do not misunderstood it. Salvation is composed of many factors; God's plans, the righteousness of God, through the gospel, holy man as the savior, hearing the gospel, true preachers and the church.
What is the very importance of the church in terms of hearing the wisdom of God? Here is the will of God. Ref: Eph. 3:10 CEB.
God’s purpose is now to show the rulers and powers in the heavens the many different varieties of his wisdom through the church.
What is the essential of the church in terms of salvation? Here is another God's will. Ref: Eph. 5:23 GNT.
For a husband has authority over his wife just as Christ has authority over the church; and Christ is himself the Savior of the church, his body.
“Take heed therefore unto yourselves and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God which He hath purchased with His own blood[/B]
Do not despise or discard the will of God, we must surrender our own will to the will of God.
I'm hearing you brother LJ,
I understand your message, yet I disagree to a point.In the old times, people had to attend church because bibles were not issued out yet. As you know they read out scrolls, and you had to go to the church (temple) to hear the word of the Lord.
But God has made a way for us, by inspiring men to put his word into print. We can now all have a copy of his word in the privacy of our homes. The holy bible. The prophets are all recorded. They were until John. However Christ prophesied further, and the Word indwelling in him gave him the right to shed this light. We received the Word more clearly, and through him, more knowledge was given to us. The next prophets to come are the two witnesses in Revelations.
Nobody can prophesy anything other that what is already written. We have the original prophets in our home, and in our hearts, and we must hear them. We have the apostles, and the gospels too. We have received them, that they were sent from God, and their message, is God's message to us.I do not have an affiliation with a church. You however, do, and your church must hold some precious feelings for you. You connect your church with people you love, people serving God, people helping people, and whatever you have learn't, you associate learning within your church. I understand your attachment and love for your brethren. I know where you are coming from, that it is not just a church for you, but a home, your base, as your foundations were founded there, in that place that you view so fondly.
I do not have that same attachment. I have and love brethren that I do not even really know. In fact, my brethren here do not even love me back in return, but my love for the truth keeps me going here, for I want to share the Word, and guide the brethren, the serious ones out of bondage, by bringing them back to the Word and not trusting in false doctrines. To make them realise that the holy spirit can teach us so much, if we study God's word. I can only do this by showing scriptures. The Word is my backbone. I am not here to mock anybody, or force anything on someone, but simply share what I know, in hope they can see also.
If you are happy there, in your church that is your choice. I do not hold that against you, but I encourage you to test everything. Even these “messengers of God” you believe in. To make sure they have given you the whole picture, and not just parts.
You can show me what your messengers have taught you, and I can show you what the holy spirit has taught me, simply by just studying the Word, with a hunger for truth, and for the hope of salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ. We can start comparing notes, and I will ask you to answer a few questions.
God bless.Taken from here: (Link)
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 20 2012,18:31) Hi limjunus, How would you define the true church?
(in terms of its physical characteristics)God bless
Ed J
Hi limjunus,I don't believe that you've understood the essence of my question,
I don't mean what are the characteristics in terms of human behavior.
But rather what I mean is how can this Church be identified as a group?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (limjunus @ Oct. 21 2012,16:21) Ed j, I know what you mean bro.
but I want the matter to be discussed with this link: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….y370964
Thank you.
Hi limjunus,Please do address my question then.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (journey42 @ Oct. 20 2012,21:07) Protect the truth, not the church, for everything is not always as it appears. Especially to the congregation. Are you a pastor?
Sister Journey42,As what you have said, “protect the truth, not the church”.
You have been forgotten that the church of Christ is the truth of God, and she is the pillar and the foundation of the truth.
and we could not just set aside the church, because the Bible is also telling us that the church is the pillar and the foundation of the truth about God.[U]
The church is the right place for the chosen people of God, to be together as one body for Christ… so that he could take away our sins by offering his life for it…. reconciliation to be made between men and God, by forgiven our trespasses through Christ and his body as“one new man before God Peace between men and God, has been promulgated by Christ.
Ref: Eph. 2:15-17, 5:23 / Col 1:18 / Acts 20:28 )
You can ignore the false churches but, please discard not the true church belong to Christ. Christ established it and offered his life for her.
Yeah, it is true that there were many false churches nowadays in our time, some has been established with malicious intention; some for their own personal motive; some for cheating the members but do not compare them with the true church of Christ.
Satan established his own churches to create confusions and with his own motive and purposes of destroying the true church of Christ, encouraging and teaching the people to give no attention with the importance to the true church.
Do not be deceived by Satan, do not be one among with so many people in this world nowadays ignoring the very essence of the true church.
Do you had any verse of the Holy Scriptures that the true church of Christ is no longer necessary for the salvation of our souls?
Bring it out here.
lmj
Quote Do not be deceived by Satan, do not be one among with so many people in this world nowadays ignoring the very essence of the true church. Do you had any verse of the Holy Scriptures that the true church of Christ is no longer necessary for the salvation of our souls?
Bring it out here.
you sound like an Aventist or a Pentcostist
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 21 2012,02:29) SHOW ME WERE IS THERE A CHURCH THAT HIS INSTITUDED BY GOD'S SON TODAY ???IF SO HOW COME NO ONE CAN COME TO GOD WITHOUT THE MESSAGE OF THE APOSTLES
Terraricca,You really did not read my posts, may be you have read them but did not understand fully?
The Bible is telling us that we could have faith after hearing the gospel of Christ, faith comes from hearing and hearing the gospel from the preachers sent by God.
The Holy Spirit can be obtained after we have believed to the words of God, preached by the preachers sent by God. Read back the very essential references: Books of Romans 10:13-15, 17 NKJV and this very much important also.
And you also became God's people when you heard the true message, the Good News that brought you salvation. You believed in Christ, and God put his stamp of ownership on you by giving you the Holy Spirit he had promised. Ref: Eph. 1:13 GNT.
Terraricca, do you have verses from the Bible that “for only just reading the Bible”, we can obtain the Holy Spirit and we do not need to hear the words of God, from the preachers sent by Him?
Bring it here so that I can study it very well.
You had been forgotten also the proclamation of the Son of God, that there shall be one church and one Shepherd in the future as the restoration of the apostatized 1st century church of Christ. The prophesied church shall also heard the words of Christ and they will listen into it.
Here is again the divine testimony of the scriptures. Ref: John 10:16 ERV.
I have other sheep too. They are not in this flock here. I must lead them also. They will listen to my voice. In the future there will be one flock and one shepherd.
Please, do not oppose the words of God. you are not opposing me, instead you are opposing the God's will.
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,02:33) Quote Find the true preachers sent by God, nowadays with his divine credential, the pattern to determine which is the true preachers, specially made by God. –limjunis
If they are true preachers sent by God, why would I have to find them? Won't they find me? (Mat 28:18,20; mat 24:14)
David,Because there were so many false preachers roaming around the world, even within your place.
Therefore you should find the true preachers sent by God, among so many called preachers nowadays, so that the gospel you would be going to hear is the right words of God.
lmj
Quote preached by the preachers sent by God. the scriptures today are the preacher, all the contributors are asigned apostles ,directed by the holy spirit ,the spirit of truth,
show me one man today with those qualifications
name him if you know ONEhand you never aswered my question : WHAT HIS THAT PREACHER TEACH BESIDE WHAT IS IN THE SCRIPTURES ANYWAY
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 21 2012,03:00) ANY TREASURES ON THE EARTH ARE OF ;Mt 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
Mt 4:9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”“if you will bow down and worship me.”
WOULD IT BE THAT THOSE WHO MAKING THEIR GLORY IN THIS WORLD ARE IN THE PRACTICE OF WORSHIPPING THE DEVIL,AND SO DECEIVED BY THE GREED IN THEIR HEARTS
Terraricca,With the exception of the true church of Christ.
The church need the financial to back-up their daily operation. The same with 1st century church of Christ. The apostles required all the disciples to sell all of their personal belongings and bring the amount to the footsteps of the apostles; so that they can focus their missionary works for the Lord.
Please, see the holy testimony of the scriptures. Ref: Acts 4:34-35 NKJV.
Neither was there any among them that lacked, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold
35 and laid them down at the apostles’ feet. And distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.Can you oppose the above truth, Terraricca?
LIMJ
Quote Terraricca, do you have verses from the Bible that “for only just reading the Bible”, we can obtain the Holy Spirit and we do not need to hear the words of God, from the preachers sent by Him? Bring it here so that I can study it very well.
FIRST i NEVER SAY THAT ; so stop putting words in my mouth that I have never said,I study the scriptures in many different ways ,and this for over 50 years because I believe that the bible his the word of God,I HAVE ACCUMULATE ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE TO NOT LET ME FALL IN THE DECEIVER HANDS ,YOU STILL ACT AS A MIND SWEEPER
Quote (limjunus @ Oct. 21 2012,12:50) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 21 2012,03:00) ANY TREASURES ON THE EARTH ARE OF ;Mt 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
Mt 4:9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”“if you will bow down and worship me.”
WOULD IT BE THAT THOSE WHO MAKING THEIR GLORY IN THIS WORLD ARE IN THE PRACTICE OF WORSHIPPING THE DEVIL,AND SO DECEIVED BY THE GREED IN THEIR HEARTS
Terraricca,With the exception of the true church of Christ.
The church need the financial to back-up their daily operation. The same with 1st century church of Christ. The apostles required all the disciples to sell all of their personal belongings and bring the amount to the footsteps of the apostles; so that they can focus their missionary works for the Lord.
Please, see the holy testimony of the scriptures. Ref: Acts 4:34-35 NKJV.
Neither was there any among them that lacked, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold
35 and laid them down at the apostles’ feet. And distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.Can you oppose the above truth, Terraricca?
lIMJyes I can ;first after the apostles died ,we all know the apostacy kicked in and took over the teaching in a beast like way,
so could you explain me how about 2000 years later there is soudenly an new prophet apparence and it is declared a true one guided by God and as build the church of God
he did this just by reinstitude the way that it could be understood from scriptures of what the apostles did live ,???
and that should be enough to bend over and accept this man as someone that comes from God ,??? you must be kidding
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,07:29) “Jesus Christ and his apostles have warned us long time ago. “There shall be false preachers and false Christ coming up in this world, deceiving people as many as they can. One of their mission is keeping the people of the world for not knowing the one and only true God. (2-Cor. 10:4-5 NLT)” Do you think hiding the fact that the God of the bible has a name, will help people to become closer to God, or do you think it will keep the people of the world from knowing God?
David,For not knowing the one and only true God, Hiding the essential name of God, with relation to the salvation of our souls is one among so many ways in keeping the people from not knowing Him.
The issue here in this topic is the “messengers of God”. The importance of the true preachers sent by God.
We must know first how to determine the false preachers and the true preachers.
Obviously, the false preachers were hiding the truth about God, including the very essential name of God, with the very important connection to the salvation of our souls. …. and obviously also, that the true preachers sent by God, shall not hiding the truth and the essential name of God.
Therefore we should stick to the issue, because it is very much important.
limj
Quote The Holy Spirit can be obtained after we have believed to the words of God, preached by the preachers sent by God. Read back the very essential references: Books of Romans 10:13-15, 17 NKJV and this very much important also. Ac 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ac 2:39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Ac 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
Ac 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.everyone of those people were Jews or Jew prozelites from all the nations and all were devoted to the God,of Israel
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