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One ideological struggle unveiled by biblical texts was between those who allowed room for the existence of deities in addition to Yahweh and others who denied the existence of other divine beings. These competing ideologies are unequivocally displayed beside one another in Psalm 96.4–5: “For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; he is to be revered above all gods. For all the gods of the people are idols, but the Lord made the heavens.”
If Yahweh had always been conceptualized as the sole deity, one must ask whether it would have been necessary to make explicit the polemical comment “all the gods of the people are idols.”?
The first category, the explicit polemic, is one in which both subject and stance are clearly stated. Such is the case in Psalm 82 where Elohim takes his seat within the council of the gods (Elohim again). Instead of judging the affairs of humans below, Elohim accuses his fellow elohim(s), reducing them to mere mortals (v. 7), and thus ends up being the sole Elohim. Psalm 82 mentioned above combines the explicit polemic against the elohim(s) with a non-polemical assumption that Yahweh is to be equated with El. Although the name “Yahweh” never occurs in this psalm, the reader equates the Elohim, who condemns the others, with Yahweh, since Yahweh and El are often equated in the Hebrew Bible.This psalm offers a conspicuous example of an explicit polemic against the other deities in the pantheon, which is dismembered and abolished.
The polemic against Astarte, Milcom, Chemosh and Molech in 1 Kings 11.5–7 is also explicit, as these gods are named, and as the list is part of an indictment of Solomon’s idolatry. Less frontal but no less violent is the polemic against Asherah in Zechariah 5.5–11. In the context of Yahweh’s stern critique of Jerusalem for her fashioning of idols representing other deities, Ezekial 16.20–1 reads: “You took your sons and your daughters, whom you had borne to me, and these you sacrificed to them to be devoured. As if your whorings were not enough! You slaughtered my children and delivered them up as an offering to them.” Further, in Ezek. 20.25–6 Yahweh states: “I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live. I defiled them through their very gifts, in their offering up all their firstborn, in order that I might horrify them, so that they might know that I am Yahweh.” Since both the subject (child sacrifice) and the stance (child sacrifice is wrong) are explicit, these statements are examples of an explicit polemic. The presence of both explicit and implicit polemics on child sacrifice reveals an ideological struggle.
Noting that “Israelite religion incorporated some of the characteristics of other deities into the divine personage of Yahweh,” Mark Smith clearly sees that polemic against deities other than Yahweh goes beyond mere condemnation. “For although polemic rejected other deities, Yahwistic polemic assumed that Yahweh embodied the positive characteristics of the very deities it was condemning.” Smith mentions polemics in passing, mainly in connection with Baal, though Smith notes they exist “to a lesser extent for Asherah and the Sun.” Hebrew Bible with an eye towards identifying where Yahweh has taken over and engaged in the activities that originally belonged to other gods in the pantheon.
Polytheism, Monolatry and Monotheism
The concepts monotheism and polytheism are two extreme ends. Although their general definition is commonly accepted, in real religions they are met in various forms. There is no single and pure form of monotheism or polytheism. Pure forms are only theoretical concepts. All ANE religions have features of both monotheism and polytheism. Ideally, and generally speaking, monotheism is the belief in one universal God who has created the world. He is absolutely unique, there is no one like Him, and the divine is conceived to exist only in Him. The existence of other divinities is denied. Many religions that are characterized as monotheistic allow the existence of lesser heavenly beings, like angels, heavenly cherubs, seraphs etc., but this is already a polytheistic feature. These heavenly beings may not receive much or any religious devotion, but they are in many cases vestiges of earlier polytheism or of polytheistic conceptions.
Polytheism, on the other hand, is the belief that the divine lies in the plurality of divinities. In the ideal form, the gods form a pantheon where they are on the same level with each other as if they were of the same race or species. All forms of polytheism show hierarchy among the gods, but the gods are potentially equal. In this sense polytheism is a reflection of human society. In practice, polytheism may not be found in this ideal form at all. There always appear to be a few gods or a god that have/has risen above the others more than a normal hierarchical difference would allow. In this sense, many polytheistic religions show features of monolatry.
Monolatry should be distinguished from monotheism and polytheism, but it can also be understood as a stage between the two, for it shares features with them both. The main difference between monotheism and monolatry is the latter’s non-denial of other gods. For the monotheist, other gods do not exist, while for the monolatrist they do. On the other hand, they are similar in conceiving oneness and uniqueness in the divinity. Whereas the oneness of the divinity is exclusive in monotheism, monolatry accepts that the divine may exist in more than one entity. Both acknowledge that there is one god/God who is in some way unique.
As already noted, in ideal polytheism all gods are on the same level, like members of the same family or of the same race. In monolatry, the one god is of “another race” than the others. The difference is more than hierarchical. Monolatry may be met in several forms but the background is an intrinsic and essential difference between the one and the plurality. Consequently, the one god plays a prominent role in the religion, while the other divinities are in some way clearly subordinate or marginal. This general background may lead to different forms of monolatry. Several scholars have shown that ANE polytheistic religions had a tendency towards monolatric conceptions, to favour one god over the others.
For example, the OT’s conceptions of head gods of other nations imply that each nation had her one specific god. Moreover, the stele of Mesha, mentioning one god, Chemosh, only, may imply that the Moabite religion was centered on one god. In most of the OT one finds a clearly predominant Yahweh who is the unquestioned God of Israel. He is unique and his position is not challenged in any way. Some polemic against other gods can be found however, and some passages reveal that the divine was not limited to Yahweh and that other divinities were accepted up to a certain extent.
Hi Mike,
The gods of Egypt could be either just idols or demons.
The important thing is that our God is far above them all.
God bless
Hi Danny, our Mike is not interested in other nations’ gods rather he’s more interested in Christian gods like Satan, Fallen Angels, Michael, Jesus and so on…
Adam: Yes, the Hebrew Bible stresses Yahweh’s primacy, while recognizing the occurrence of other gods…
This is the case all throughout the Bible – and teaching people to accept this undeniable scriptural truth instead of being afraid of it is the reason I began this thread.
Adam: The presence of these other gods is necessary to uphold Yahweh’s supremacy.
What?!? If Yahweh was truly the ONLY God, His supremacy would be unquestionable. There doesn’t need to be other gods for Yahweh to be the supreme Creator of heaven, earth, the sea, and everything in them.
Adam: Before Yahweh could be conceived of as alone, he first had to be viewed as the greatest.
A concept of Yahweh being alone is not found in Yahweh’s own words – or in any words in the scripture.
Adam: So this is what I mean by evolution of Israelite religion from Polytheism to Monotheism. Yes Polytheism in the Biblical texts is about existence of gods for other nations and Yahweh for Israelites. Hope I am clear to you.
And I keep telling you that there IS NO “EVOLUTION” FROM ONE TO THE OTHER.
In the earliest books of the Bible, there is Yahweh and other gods. (Please refute this statement if it is untrue.)
In the latest books of the Bible, there is Yahweh and other gods. (Please refute this statement if it is untrue.
Adam, if you cannot REFUTE those two statements, then your never-ending claims about some “evolution” from polytheism to monotheism aren’t worth the broadband it takes you to continually post them on HN.
This is what I mean about “stand and defend”. Stand and defend your “evolution” claim by REFUTING my two statements above. I hope I am clear to you.
Danny: The gods of Egypt could be either just idols or demons.
Well they can’t be idols. How exactly would Yahweh “bring judgment” upon inanimate objects? Plus consider that Pharaoh’s priests were able to match the first three signs that Moses did (staff to snakes, water to blood, frogs). Inanimate objects can’t do those things, nor can men. It was the gods of Egypt who matched those signs.
Danny: The important thing is that our God is far above them all.
Yes Danny, the Bible is loaded with all kinds of different gods… and one Most High God of the rest of them. That Most High God is Yahweh. He is the God of all the gods He created… including Jesus, who point blank tells us that our God is also his God. (John 20:17)
This thread is to let people know that it’s okay to speak the scriptural truth and talk about the Most High God Yahweh – and the many other gods that Yahweh is the God of. We don’t have to be scared to talk about the many gods in the Bible. We don’t have to hem and haw and make excuses for why they aren’t “really” gods. Did King David make any excuses when he openly talked about those other gods? No. So why then should we say, “Well, they’re really angels, or demons, or powerful spirit entities… but NOT actual gods”?
There is no denying the truth, Danny. They ARE actual, real, living gods… and the Most High God is the God of all of them. He created them. This is exactly what the Bible teaches from beginning to end, and people should turn away from the blatantly false “only one god” tradition they’ve been taught, and openly embrace EVERY truth in the scriptures… including the existence of many gods.
Danny, do you know WHY the false “only one god” tradition came to be in the first place?
This is the case all throughout the Bible – and teaching people to accept this undeniable scriptural truth instead of being afraid of it is the reason I began this thread
Hi Mike, I like the method of your analytic replies. Yes Bible is full multiple gods of nations and Yahweh, the one God of Israelites.
Deut 10:17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who is not partial and takes no bribe,
Deut 4:35 To you it was shown so that you would acknowledge that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him.
Hi Mike
You
Well they can’t be idols. How exactly would Yahweh “bring judgment” upon inanimate objects? Plus consider that Pharaoh’s priests were able to match the first three signs that Moses did (staff to snakes, water to blood, frogs). Inanimate objects can’t do those things, nor can men. It was the gods of Egypt who matched those signs.
Me
Mike, Pharaoh’s priests were instruments of Satan, but God put limits on them. They could not imitate ALL the miracles that the true God YHWH produced by MOSES and Aaron.
👇
Exodus 8:16
And the LORD said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
[17] And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
[18] And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.
[19] Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he heardken not unto them; as the LORD had said. were instruments of Satan, but God put limits on them. They could not imitate the miracles that the true God YHWH produced by MOSES and Aaron.
GOD BLESSWhat?!? If Yahweh was truly the ONLY God, His supremacy would be unquestionable. There doesn’t need to be other gods for Yahweh to be the supreme Creator of heaven, earth, the sea, and everything in them.
Please refer my previous post. Bible is with the existence of multiple gods for nations and only one God Yahweh for the nation Israel. But the verses I quotes from the same book Deuteronomy claims existence of multiple gods at the same time there is only the existence of Yahweh and claims no existence of anther god besides Yahweh. This controversy continues in number of books. The following are few such verses other than the clear verses in Isaiah 44-46 which reflect Monotheistic background;
Deut. 4:32–40; 7.7–11; 2 Sam. 7:22–29; 1 Kgs 8:54–61; 18:21–40 and 2 Kgs 19:15–19 which use monotheistic language, noting that these texts often digress from the context and its themes so that their removal would not disturb its general flow, and in most cases, would make it clearer. So there is some possibility of later redaction and editorial in these books due to the developed Monotheistic religious environment.
Even your definition of God given to our brother Gene also mentions the word “Monotheistic religions”. So all the three Abrahamic religions imagine themselves as Monotheistic religions.
Coming to your claim of supremacy of Yahweh that would depend on the claim of the followers which can not be proved in reality.
Priestly Code and Elohim
In claiming that El Shadday, Yahweh and Ahuramazda were different names for the same Elohim, the Priestly Code displayed its loyalty to the Persian overlord while remaining faithful to its own indigenous traditions. The significance of the Priestly Code’s contribution to the rise of monotheism is often missed, because the very existence of such a document remains debated due to the many additions that were inserted into it, often with the aim of “deuteronomizing” its original message. Nevertheless, the Priestly Code is the most easily identifiable layer in the Pentateuch thanks to its more peaceful theology, compared to the aggressive stance typical of Deuteronomistic texts.
The claim in Exod. 6.3 that the Patriarchs only knew the god under the designation “El,” setting Moses as the founder of Yahwism, does not reflect the historical reality of the rise of Yahwism, for two reasons. First, the biblical periodization does not correspond to historical periods. The Patriarchal Era cannot be dated and placed before an equally hypothetical Mosaic Era. Second, the notion that Yahweh waited for Moses before revealing himself under his proper name is a literary device used in the Priestly Document only. It is contradicted by the second creation narrative in Genesis 2–4, which mentions Yahweh and thus ruins the narrative logic of the Priestly Code.
The equation Yahweh-Elohim in the Priestly Document goes a step further than Abram’s oath in the name of Yahweh El Elyon in Genesis 14. The phrase “El is Yahweh” (אל יהוה (in Ps. 118.27 and Abraham’s evocation of El Olam in Genesis 21.33 appropriate various epithets of El for Yahweh without implying that Yahweh has eliminated the pantheon. In fact, the tree Abraham plants in Genesis 21.33 preserves the memory of the association of El with Asherah.
John Day surmises that the linkage between Zaphon and Jerusalem (Pss. 46; 48) was not the result of Yahweh’s takeover of Baal’s holy mountain but rather was mediated via the cult of El-Elyon, since Isa. 14.13–14 establishes a connection between Zaphon and Elyon. Day attributes this cult of Elyon to the Jebusites, dating it to during the reign of David. The whole notion of a Jebusite population is controversial, and it is precarious to base the origin of a Zaphonic religion on a single verse, especially when it would have existed in times for which very little information has come to light.
The non-polemical portrayals of Yahweh as a seated El-type deity in Isaiah 6; Ezekiel 1; Ps. 9.8 (Eng. 9.7), “Yahweh sits enthroned for ever,” and Ps. 113.5, “Who is like Yahweh our God, who is seated on high,” correspond to a later phase rather than to the original stature of Yahweh before the Iron Age. The search for origins is too precarious to provide a solid foundation for the rise of biblical monotheism. …(taken from the book “Monotheism and Yahweh’s Appropriation of Baal”)
Adam: Hi Mike, I like the method of your analytic replies.
Thank you.
Adam: Yes Bible is full multiple gods of nations and Yahweh, the one God of Israelites.
Yahweh is the Creator of everything, including those gods of the other nations. When Yahweh saw that the gods (Watchers) He appointed over the various nations to teach them the path of righteousness were instead teaching them evil, He built a nation out of Abram that He would rule over directly, instead of by proxy through his delegate gods. But remember that Israel was just the beginning…
Genesis 17:5… No longer will your name be Abram. Instead, your name will be Abraham because I will make you the father of a multitude of nations. (See also Romans 4:16-18)
Berean: Mike, Pharaoh’s priests were instruments of Satan, but God put limits on them. They could not imitate ALL the miracles that the true God YHWH produced by MOSES and Aaron.
Close enough. But the point is that these gods of Egypt were real, living gods, and they performed great signs and wonders through their priests up to the limit that their own God, Yahweh, allowed. We see the power of these other gods also in this passage…
2 Kings 3:26-27… When the king of Moab saw that the battle was too fierce for him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they could not prevail. So he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him, and offered him as a burnt offering on the city wall. And there came great wrath against the Israelites, so they withdrew and returned to their own land.
In this case, after Yahweh won the battle for the Israelites, He allowed the Moabite god, Chemosh, to cause the Israelites to withdraw before they completely wiped out the Moabites.
These other gods are also Yahweh’s children, Berean. And Yahweh allows them to exercise their authority (an authority He gave them over the nations of the world in the first place) up to a point. But Yahweh is always in charge of just how far the other gods are allowed to go – as was the case with the plagues of Egypt.
Consider…
2 Corinthians 4:4… The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Yahweh allows the god of this age to blind their minds.
Romans 1:24… Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity… (Read the entire passage, Rom 1:18-32)
Psalm 81:11-12… But My people would not listen to Me, and Israel would not obey Me. So I gave them up to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices.
God will protect those who seek Him and worship Him, as per the prayer Jesus taught us, “lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one”. (Matthew 6:9-13)
But just as Yahweh allows each man to decide whether or not to follow Him, He also allows His spirit sons (the other gods) to decide for themselves. And just as He allows man to do evil to other men, He allows His spirit sons to do the same. The promise was never that we wouldn’t have trouble in this fallen world, but that, with God’s help, we can overcome this world and partake in the next one where these evil men and evil gods are no more. (John 16:33)
Never forget…
Ephesians 6:12… For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
These other gods are real, and Yahweh allows them to do what they do to separate the wheat from the chaff, until the great day of reckoning. Our current struggle is against these other gods, but if we remain faithful to the only true God, and to Jesus His Christ, whom He sent, we will be vindicated in the end.
Hi Mike
You
Close enough. But the point is that these gods of Egypt were real, living gods, and they performed great signs and wonders through their priests up to the limit that their own God, Yahweh, allowed.
Me
In fact it is Satan who is behind these Egyptian gods that the magicians have made for themselves.
The REAL fight IS BETWEEN CHRIST AND SATAN.This IS What I believe in this confrontation between the gods of the Egyptians, Pharaoh and these magicians and YAHWEH, Moses and Aaron
Berean: In fact it is Satan who is behind these Egyptian gods that the magicians have made for themselves.
The REAL fight IS BETWEEN CHRIST AND SATAN.While it’s true that Satan is one of the many other gods in the Bible, and is even the leader of the gods who rebelled against Yahweh, each of the gods that Satan is the leader of has their own power. Satan was not one of the gods of Egypt who were punished by Yahweh, nor do the gods of Egypt (or the gods of any nation) need to get their power from Satan.
For example, these are the words of the angel (god) Gabriel, who came to Daniel…
Daniel 10:12-14… “Do not be afraid, Daniel,” he said, “for from the first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision concerns those days.”
Notice how the Prince of Persia is also a god (for a mere man could not restrain one of God’s spirit sons). And then Gabriel had to be helped by the Michael the archangel (which means “leader-angel”). Notice that Michael couldn’t just send power to Gabriel so that Gabriel could overcome the Prince of Persia. Michael had to come in person and help Gabriel fight the Prince of Persia who was restraining him from coming to Daniel.
Gabriel later said in verse 20… “I must return at once to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I have gone forth, behold, the prince of Greece will come.”
The point is that Satan (who is also an arch-angel, ie: leader of other angels) isn’t the ONLY god who is fighting against Yahweh and His people… just like Michael is not the ONLY god who is fighting FOR Yahweh and His people. All of these gods have THEIR OWN power – whether they are among the faithful to Yahweh, or among the ones who have rebelled against Him. So when the gods of Egypt tried to thwart Yahweh’s plans by matching the first three signs that Yahweh performed through Moses, it was the gods of Egypt doing it – not Satan in particular. Nor could Satan just send them power to do it. The gods of Egypt had their own power, just like Gabriel, Michael, Jesus, and Satan do.
So if the scripture said that Yahweh punished SATAN over the Egypt thing, then that’s what it would have meant. But the scripture doesn’t say that. The scripture says “gods of Egypt”, not Satan. So although Satan is their leader, we have no idea if he was even remotely involved in the gods of Egypt’s rebellion over the plagues.
Read that last scripture in my previous post again. Our struggle isn’t against the POWER (singular) of darkness and the spiritual FORCE (singular) of evil. It is against the MANY powers of darkness, and the MANY spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. In other words, our struggle is not against Satan only, but also against the many other gods that Satan leads.
We just have to tell it EXACTLY like the Bible tells it, Berean. That’s all I ever try to do, and what I try to convince others that they should do. If it doesn’t say “Satan”, then don’t assume “Satan”. If it says “gods of Egypt” (as in more than one god), then that’s what it means.
The fight is not only between Jesus and Satan – although they are both leaders in the battle that will take place. The battle is between Jesus AND HIS ARMIES and Satan AND HIS ARMIES.
Jesus will win, and then hand the keys of the kingdom back over to his and our God, Yahweh, who will rule over us directly just like He ruled over the nation of Israel directly back in the day.
Mike
The fight is not only between Jesus and Satan – although they are both leaders in the battle that will take place. The battle is between Jesus AND HIS ARMIES and Satan AND HIS ARMIES.
Me
Ok
I have known this for a long time….
👇
Revelation12
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.As this text tells us, the war is between Michael (Jesus) and his angels and the Dragon (Satan) and his angels.
And this war started in HEAVEN….and we know that it continued and continues on earth….
ADAM AND EVE WERE THE FIRST VICTIMS OF THIS WAR ON EARTH….Hi Mike,
I believe you are right.
Our God is indeed God of gods and Lord of lords.“For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods and Lord of lords,
the great God, the mighty, and the awesome,
who doesn’t respect persons or take bribes.” Deuteronomy 10:17God bless
Berean: As this text tells us, the war is between Michael (Jesus) and his angels and the Dragon (Satan) and his angels.
And this war started in HEAVEN….and we know that it continued and continues on earth….
ADAM AND EVE WERE THE FIRST VICTIMS OF THIS WAR ON EARTH….Hi Berean, I don’t believe Michael is Jesus. I understand why some people (like the JWs) do believe that, and the scriptures that cause them to believe it. I just don’t happen to believe it. But since Michael is clearly called an archangel in scripture, I’m surprise to see that you believe it – since it would mean that Jesus is angel of God, and not God. How do you explain that Jesus is both an angel of God and God?
Secondly, I don’t believe the war in heaven began until after Adam and Eve existed. I believe that there wasn’t really anything for them to fight over until the creation of man, which spawned the idea in Satan’s mind that mankind was a toy to be played with and used for twisted entertainment.
Imagine Adam and Eve before children. They got along fine. But then they had kids. Eve wanted to raise the kids to be polite and kind. But Adam thought it’d be funny if he taught the children to use the F-word, and fight each other. Now all of a sudden, Adam and Eve have something to fight about, because she wants to play with her new toys one way, and Adam wants to play with them a different way.
In my mind, that’s how the enmity between God and Satan began. Consider…
Ezekiel 28:12-15… You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every kind of precious stone adorned you… Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold, prepared on the day of your creation. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for I had ordained you. You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the fiery stones. From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways—until wickedness was found in you.
I think this is about Satan. He was the seal of perfection, living in the garden of Eden and highly esteemed by Yahweh. He was blameless… until wickedness was found in him. I believe the temptation of Adam and Eve was the first instance of wickedness Satan revealed… all because he found himself with a new toy he could mess with – just like many immature parents mess with their own gullible children and see if they can get them to do things that they shouldn’t do.
And finally Berean, while I truly enjoy your insights, you still haven’t actually addressed the point I was making to you… that the gods of Egypt were truly real, living gods who performed signs and wonders through their priests – in direct defiance of their own God, Yahweh, and that is why Yahweh passed judgement upon them while He was passing judgment on the rest of Egypt.
Bottom line: The gods of Egypt were real gods, and the Most High God punished them for their wickedness. According to scripture, is this claim true or false?
Danny: Hi Mike,
I believe you are right.
Our God is indeed God of gods and Lord of lords.Thanks Danny. It’s hard for Yahweh to be the God of gods if there don’t exist other gods for Him to be the God of, right? Also hard for Him to be the Most High God if there don’t exist other less high gods.
The fact that the Bible teaches about many gods and one Most High God who created not only us and our world, but also the other gods (His spirit sons who preceded us) doesn’t diminish OUR God in any way.
He still created this wonderful world just for us, and He loves us. It’s just that He created His heavenly sons (gods) before he created us, and He loves them just as much as he loves us. And just as it’s not His will that any of us die, (Ez 33:11, 2 Pet 2:9), I’m sure it grieves Him just as much when His heavenly sons defy Him and must be destroyed (ie: Ps 82).
The point is that it’s okay to speak scripturally about the many gods in the Bible. Most people act as if the entire subject is taboo, and they bend over backwards to deny it – even though it is as clear as day all throughout the scriptures.
Hey Berean, here’s another piece of evidence to support my theory that Satan was perfect in the Garden of Eden before he started messing with Adam and Eve…
Luke 4:5-7… 5Then the devil led Him up to a high place and showed Him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6“I will give You authority over all these kingdoms and all their glory,” he said. “For it has been relinquished to me, and I can give it to anyone I wish. 7So if You worship me, it will all be Yours.”
I believe that just as God gave mankind dominion over the animals of the earth, He gave His heavenly sons dominion over the affairs of mankind. We see this in the Book of Enoch, where the Watchers were supposed to be helping man to walk a path of righteousness, and some of them were punished for teaching mankind evil instead. We also see it in Ps 82, where God passed judgment on other gods (Watchers) who were supposed to be teaching righteousness, but instead helped wicked people trample on the meek ones. (That is still going on today in our world.)
Anyway, when God gave His heavenly sons dominion over mankind, He placed Satan as the head ruler over the earth. (Of course God did this when Satan was the seal of perfection… before wickedness was found in him.) And that is why Satan is called “the god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4), and was able to tell Jesus what he did in Luke 4:5-7 above. After all, his temptation wouldn’t have been worth a thing if Satan wasn’t truly given authority over the kingdoms of the earth, and couldn’t truly offer that authority to Jesus as a bribe, right?
Hi Mike
Hi Berean, I don’t believe Michael is Jesus. I understand why some people (like the JWs) do believe that, and the scriptures that cause them to believe it. I just don’t happen to believe it. But since Michael is clearly called an archangel in scripture, I’m surprise to see that you believe it – since it would mean that Jesus is angel of God, and not God. How do you explain that Jesus is both an angel of God and God?
Me
Archangel Michael/Jesus is not a created angel, He is the creator of Angels (angelic army) and the leader of all faithful angels. (creator 👉 see Colossians 1
leader of the faithful angels👉 see Matthew 24. Rev.12 and 19
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