The Kingdom of Heaven

Participant

Quote

So we can say Jesus was in the kingdom of God and so are all who do the Fathers Will ,

Was Abel in the kingdom of God? Why do people pray for it if it always existed?

September 12, 2011 at 12:35 am#258135

Participant

Gene, here is why some explaining is in order.

You continually say the kingdom of god is “within us.”

Well, I could just as easily dismiss that translation in favor of:

“The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (New World Translation)
“For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” (NASB)
“Because God's kingdom is already among you.” (The Message)
“For the Kingdom of God is already among you.[a]” (New Living)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”[a] (English Standard)
“the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. (Darby Translation)
“the kingdom of God is among you.” (holman)
“God's kingdom is among you.” (New International readers version)
“because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” [a] (todays new international version)
“The kingdom of God is among you” (The New English Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (The Jerusalem Bible)
“is in the midst of you.” (Revised Standard Version)
“God’s royal majesty is among you.” (The Emphatic Diaglott)
etc.

So, instead of just flipping a coin and accepting one translation, we should think things through, look at context, consider who Jesus was speaking to when he said those words.

September 12, 2011 at 12:36 am#258136

Participant

Here is my post from a few pages back, because no one touched upon it:

“T8

Why do you believe jesus said the kingdom is “within us”?
I believe the idea that the kingdom (a word that means “government, empire” etc) is within people does not line up with ACCURATE scripture.
There is really only one scripture that pushes people to believe that, and it's not translated that way in most modern Bibles. It is in fact, a mistranslation, and an easy one to spot, when you consider the context.

Before we get to that, let's begin at the beginning, and I'll discuss why, I Biblically do not believe the kingdom of God is something “within” people.

Actually, no, let's start at that scripture:

LUKE 17:21
“neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God is within you.”

1. CONTEXT! Read Luke 17:20 and 21. (Not just 21)
(He “answered” the pharisees. His statement was directed towards them. Do you think the kingdom of God is in the hearts of the pharisses? Please do not dismiss that question. Is it? Jesus called them “hypocrites” and “serpents” and said “how are you to flee from the judgement of Gehenna?”
Is God’s kingdom in such ones? What do you think?

2. MODERN BIBLES translate it “in your midst” or “among you.” (Even KJ and others that have “within you” also have “among you” as an alternate translation in the margins.)

3. MANY SCRIPTURES SHOW KINGDOM TO BE A GOVERNMENT–dan 2:44; Is 9:6,7; 1 cor 15:24; Rev 1:6; 5:9,10.

At Matthew 23:13-33, we see that Jesus 4 times said: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!” And he said: “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are you to flee from the judgment of Ge·heńna?” (Mat 23:33)
Does it make sense that Jesus would say that God’s kingdom was in the wicked hearts of those corrupt men, the very ones he condemned to Gehenna, the very ones who shut up the kingdom for other men?
It’s interesting to note the margins and footnotes in the KJ and the NIV of this verse.
In the margin, KJ has this: “within you: or, among you.”
A footnote to Luke 17:21 in the New International Version shows that Jesus’ words could be rendered: “The kingdom of God is among you.”

And here is how the vast majority of modern Bible’s tend to translate this verse:

Jesus, who was in their midst, thus referred to himself as the future King. (Compare Mat 12:27,28)
Jesus was “within” a group of people, among them, “in” their midst.
As the long-awaited Messiah and King-Designate, Jesus was in their very midst. Far from being something that a person has in his heart, God’s Kingdom is a real, operating government having a ruler and subjects.

WHAT IS GOD’S KINGDOM?

As you said, a government. Does it make sense that a government is within us? Was gods kingdom within the Pharisees?

I would really like an answer.”

September 12, 2011 at 1:21 am#258142

Participant

david

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Hi Pierre,
The scripture I quoted shows quite plainly that God “the Father” decides who sits at the thrones with Christ in the “kingdom.”

Yet, you said it was a “self choice to be in the kingdom.”

So, is it a self choice, or is it God's choice?

The scriptures you presented are all very lovely, but none of them touch on what I was actually asking.

you are mixing two things to be in the kingdom and receiving the right to sit in a throne (144k) you right if we talk about the 144k ,but you are telling me that anyone living on earth is not in the kingdom ?

I have answered you but you have not seen it ,in the kingdom we all be teach by God and no one will say do you know God ?all who lives in the kingdom will have past the test and willingly follows the law of love ,what is to care about others before you care about yourself because others will care for you ….and so on ,,,

so the so called government is not a copy of men made government but a heavenly one (all be servant to each other)with the 144k being the connection to a direct connection to God presence,

but for now we self chose to be in that kingdom because God does not force us to be in or accept his grace of the sacrifice of Christ and it is by faith that we understand the kingdom to come our residence.

Pierre

September 12, 2011 at 1:36 am#258144

mikeboll64

Blocked

I can't understand why so many people take a particular translation of Luke 17:21 so literally when there also exist many scriptures that speak of ENTERING the Kingdom of God.

Am I to believe that those who ENTER into the Kingdom of God are entering into ME?

David, you seem out numbered here. But you are making solid, logical and scriptural points. Keep up the good work. You are correct that the Kingdom of God is a real government, not a spiritual “enlightenment” or “feeling” that comes from inside a person.

mike

September 12, 2011 at 2:29 am#258149

Participant

I know what you mean Mike.

I often feel like I have entered the funny farm here. It often feels to me, that we do everything we can to avoid what is actually said about the kingdom itself, and instead focus on 'God will be all in all,' and then apply that to the kingdom, and add string upon string of ideas that are jumbled without actually quoting scripture.

Ask a direct question like you did above and it will be avoided, as though it is invisible. I can see it. It's clearly there. The big smily face makes it quite easy to see.

Given that the kingdom of God was the central idea of Jesus preaching (Luke 4:43) (and is to be of ours; Mat 24:14) few here like to talk about it and when they do, it is always the same indirect unclear, uncited things.

david.

September 12, 2011 at 2:51 am#258151

Participant

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I think I see the trouble now. When i say kingdom, I think “government run by king” which means people. You however think of more of an empire, like the magic kingdom, disneyland and focus on the building or the palace and see the land as the kingdom.

If a kingdom is a government run by a king, then “no” not everyone will be in the kingdom, or in other words, he “made them to be a kingdom.” (Rev 5:9,10), so the “the holy ones” are the kingdom, along with Christ Jesus. They say: “He made us to BE a kingdom.” (Rev 1:6)

There is a place or two in the Bible where it speaks of being “in” the kingdom, in that other sense. But in most cases in the bible, it seems not so much that it is a place as a thing. The “kingdom of the heavens” isn't the heavens, but the heavens are the place where that kingdom's power and authority comes from.

If you think of it as a government, then no, not everyone needs to be in the government, hence the number 144k you mentioned. In canada, it is only a little group that make up the government. And when I think government, I think of the people, not the buildings or the place.

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so the so called government is not a copy of men made government but a heavenly one (all be servant to each other)with the 144k being the connection to a direct connection to God presence,

Now we are getting somewhere. So there is one group (lets say they number about 144K) who will be the direct connection to God, as you say. Now, we think of those scriptures that say they make up the kingdom, along with Christ. And then we have a much larger group, a great crowd, so to speak, who benefit from this theocratic rule.

And, if you do see the kingdom as a “heavenly one,” that is– a heavenly government, then how will this government be inside you, or me? (Remembering that Jesus was speaking to the pharisees, when he said either: “within you” or “in your midst.”)

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but for now we self chose to be in that kingdom because God does not force us to be in

Well, it's our choice how we act in accord with Godly principles, but it is up to “the father” as the scripture extremely plainly says, as to who sits on those thrones, thus, making up the kingdom.
As for those who will be “in” the kingdom, in the sense of being allowed to be ruled under it, even then, it is our choice to try to do our best, but it is the rulers of the kingdom (Jesus, the holy ones) who will judge, as the Bible says.

1 CORINTHIANS 6:2:
“Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?” (Compare Rev 20:4; 2 Cor 5:10)

LUKE 22:28-30
““However, YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.”

–God chooses who make up the kingdom, (or, if you like, the rulers of the kingdom)
–And those who make up the kingdom (our peers, those who have been tried and tested and chosen by God) judge those fit for life.

Many scriptures say that Jesus is judge. But the scriptures above also say that his “co-heirs” (of the kingdom) will help to judge the world.

And none of any of this suggests in the least that the kingdom is something inside of people. Rather, the kingdom (government) is people. However, I understand how for some scriptures, it could also be understood to be an empire, that not only is made up of the holy ones, but also has the others “in” it. (Still, they are in the kingdom, the kingdom isn't in them.)

September 12, 2011 at 4:07 am#258156

Participant

david

Quote

but for now we self chose to be in that kingdom because God does not force us to be in

1 CORINTHIANS 6:2:
“Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?” (Compare Rev 20:4; 2 Cor 5:10)

Many scriptures say that Jesus is judge. But the scriptures above also say that his “co-heirs” (of the kingdom) will help to judge the world.

————–

I have answer you to this in my previous quote; you right if we talk about the 144k

Quote

it is the kingdom of God ;MT 6:33 “But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

how do you seek first the kingdom ? MT 13:11 Jesus answered them, “ To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

how do you receive the kingdom ?MT 5:10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

what is the kingdom of God ? to your understanding ?

MT 13:31 He presented another parable to them, saying, “ The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field;
MT 13:24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “ The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
MT 13:19 “When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.

MT 13:33 He spoke another parable to them, “ The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened.”
MT 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

MT 13:41 “ The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
MT 13:43 “ Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear

MT 13:44 “ The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

MT 13:45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls,
MT 13:47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
MT 13:52 And Jesus said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old.”

MT 18:3 and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
MT 18:4 “Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 18:23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
Mt 18:24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
Mt 18:25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
Mt 18:26 “The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’
Mt 18:27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
Mt 18:28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
Mt 18:29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’
Mt 18:30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.
Mt 18:31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
Mt 18:32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.
Mt 18:33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’
Mt 18:34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
Mt 18:35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

MK 4:30 And He said, “How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?

MK 9:1 And Jesus was saying to them, “ Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
this scripture refers to Stephen;Ac 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Ac 7:56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

1TH 2:12 so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.
2TH 1:5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.

REV 5:10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”what are priest do ?and they themselves are a kingdom ?

REV 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,
“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses the
m before our God day and night.

REV 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“ The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”
REV 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,
“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.WHAT HAS CHANGE IN THE THE KINGDOM OF THE WORLD SO THAT IT BECOME THE KINGDOM OF GOD ?

Pierre

September 12, 2011 at 3:28 pm#258176

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (david @ Sep. 12 2011,11:35)

Gene, here is why some explaining is in order.

You continually say the kingdom of god is “within us.”

Well, I could just as easily dismiss that translation in favor of:

So, instead of just flipping a coin and accepting one translation, we should think things through, look at context, consider who Jesus was speaking to when he said those words.

David ……….>Fact is all those translation lineup with what i am saying. But let use you logic that the Kingdom of God was within there Midst then. Even though you left out the first part of that sentence , that the Kingdom of God comes without observation will just throw that part out as you do, then if the Kingdom of God was within there midst, lets ask how was it withing there midst, was it not (IN) Jesus was he not preaching and teaching about the Kingdom of GOD. was this Kingdom in their midst was it not (IN) Jesus Christ, was not God the Father ruling (IN) and through HIM. “the son of man can do NOTHING of himself the Father (IN) Me HE does the works”. So even if you believe it was simply in their midst it still was in their Midst becasue it was (IN) Jesus Christ and it was not visible to them and they did not recrieve or observe it now did they.

You failed to commit on this part i brought up > ” MAKE THE CUP CLEAN ON THE INSIDE THAT IT MIGHT BE CLEAN ON THE OUTSIDE ALSO”

I notice also you don't talk about how Jesus said the Kingdom of God comes without observation Now do you David, what does that mean to you David.

David you have to learn to think out side of you religious associations and ties brother. Your simply feeding us JW watch tower Material. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

September 13, 2011 at 1:56 am#258206

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2011,09:28)

David you have to learn to think out side of you religious associations and ties brother. Your simply feeding us JW watch tower Material.

It's easy to dismiss Watchtower information with extreme prejudice by simply saying, “Oh, that's just JW crap”. It's quite a different matter altogether to actually prove that “JW crap” to be scripturally inaccurate.

We should deal with the actual information itself, and test that information against scripture to see if it's true before dismissing it just because we don't like the source.

mike

September 13, 2011 at 2:02 am#258207

Participant

Hi david.

I don't disagree with you.
In fact I know that “in the midst” is also a contender.

I haven't read your post yet coz it is a bit long and I have been very busy in my job.
Doesn't mean I won't read it though.

And I concur with Mike. I don't disregard anything because of the messenger/denomination.
I think the search for truth doesn't include bias in any way.

September 13, 2011 at 6:21 am#258222

Participant

Quote

David you have to learn to think out side of you religious associations and ties brother. Your simply feeding us JW watch tower Material. IMO

–Gene,

Regardless of whether that is true or not, what matters obviously is what the scriptures say and what they don't say. It would be a fallacy to say that anything I say is wrong simply because someone else says it first.

And you are right that I have been avoiding the first part of that verse when speaking with you. To me, if you can't see what the second part says, you probably can't see very much. If Jesus was speaking to the pharisees who are the ones that asked him the question, and if Jesus “answered them” as it says he did, then it is insanely inconceivable in my mind that the kingdom was “in” the hearts of the pharisees. No one touches that question. It is invisible. And if we can't discuss what I consider to be that astoundingly obvious flaw, it's pointless in my mind touching on the first part of the verse.

But let's do that.

First, understand that Jesus, is the king of the kingdom. He represents the kingdom, just as Obama represents the US. Imagine for a second Jesus standing before you and you not knowing who he is, ask him when the kingdom is coming. (This would be somewhat ironic, laughable, foolish….but it was the pharisees, so our expectations aren't high.)

The Pharisees believe that the kingdom will come with great pomp and ceremony, but Jesus says: “The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

The “for look” part should give us a clue. “For” is a conjunction, I think, and in the Greek it means the same as in English. It does involve a continuation of thought. Jesus is EXPLAINING his first statement. Let me translate my understanding for you:

Pharisees: When is the kingdom coming?
The King: It's not coming with striking a observableness.
The King: FOR LOOK FOOLS! I'm standing right here, in your midst, among you. (a few old Bible's translate this “within you.”)

Or, if you prefer, The kingdom's right here, in your midst. Either way, Jesus represented the kingdom and was right among them, in front of their very faces.

I know that when we read this, we think of the kingdom coming, in the future. But based on Jesus answer about the kingdom being right in front of them, in their midst, I don't think that's a good take. Think these scriptures:

MATTHEW 12:28
“But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU.”

MATTHEW 21:5
““TELL the daughter of Zion, ‘Look! Your King is coming to you, mild-tempered, and mounted upon an ass, yes, upon a colt, the offspring of a beast of burden.’””

Gene:
“then if the Kingdom of God was within there midst, lets ask how was it withing there midst, was it not (IN) Jesus was he not preaching and teaching about the Kingdom of GOD. was this Kingdom in their midst was it not (IN) Jesus Christ, was not God the Father ruling (IN) and through HIM.”

So, your belief as I understand it is that the kingdom of God is “in” people.
You ask: “if the Kingdom of God was within there midst, lets ask how was it withing there midst, was it not (IN) Jesus”?
This is called BEGGING THE QUESTION I think. Whether or not the kingdom was “in” jesus is what has to be proved. You can't just answer the question by stating your own answer, which in fact is what we are trying to prove/disprove.

Let me explain the fallacy:
People believe that this scripture proves the kingdom is in people.
You say that we know the kingdom of God is “in” Jesus regardless of this scripture. Well, where's the other scripture then?

So, in answer to your question: “NO, it's not 'IN” JESUS!.” Jesus, as the king, represents the kingdom. The head of the kingdom stood feet away from them. Hence, the kingdom was in their midst. If there is some other scripture you use to prove the “kingdom is in people” belief, I would like to see it.

Moving on, you ask:
“was he not preaching and teaching about the Kingdom of GOD. “
Sure, right, totally agree. Don't see how this in any way supports your claim that the kingdom was “in” the pharisees to whom he was answering. IN fact, Jesus said that the pharisees shut up the kingdom of the heavens. How could it be in them? [PLEASE ANSWER]

Please!

Please! (I genuinely would like an answer. He was 'answering' the pharisees. He “answered them.” So, he was speaking to the pharisees when he said those words.

Continuing:
“ was this Kingdom in their midst was it not (IN) Jesus Christ“
Yes, that's what you are trying to prove. Repeating the question doesn't prove it.

Continuing:
“ was not God the Father ruling (IN) and through HIM“
I've noticed you really like to use this one. I'd like to see the scripture that says God is “ruling in” people. Which scripture is that? Secondly, God is not the kingdom of God. God, does not equal kingdom. You are trying to prove that the kingdom is in people, not God.

Continuing:
“the son of man can do NOTHING of himself the Father (IN) Me HE does the works”.
I wish you would cite the actual scripture so others can find it. Even if you typed that accurately, again, your words suggest the FAther is in Jesus, not the kingdom being in people. There is a difference between God and his kingdom. Which scripture is this?

Continuing:
So even if you believe it was simply in their midst it still was in their Midst becasue it was (IN) Jesus Christ and it was not visible to them and they did not recrieve or observe it now did they.
Well, as the scripture says, they definitely didn't obverse it. Sometimes the obvious answer is right in front of you and still, you do not observe it.

I just noticed something. You are mixing things up quite a bit. You keep saying it was in jesus. But Jesus was saying it was in them, (or actually, in their midst).

LUKE 17:20-21
“But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: “The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, 21 neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God is in YOUR midst.”” (footnote says: or “among you.”)

Jesus doesn't say the kingdom of God is in “me.” Regardless of how you translate it, he doesn't say that. He's either saying it's among the pharisees or in the pharisees.

My question is: Which is it? Which makes more sense? With the head of that kingdom standing before them, did Jesus say the kingdom of God was “in” them, or was he saying the kingdom was in their midst?

david.

Quote

You failed to commit on this part i brought up > ” MAKE THE CUP CLEAN ON THE INSIDE THAT IT MIGHT BE CLEAN ON THE OUTSIDE ALSO”

I don't remember where you spoke about this, but it also, doesn't seem to apply.

September 14, 2011 at 11:37 pm#258319

Participant

T8?

Gene?

The kingdom of God is something I think we should be more interested in. It doesn't get enough discussion.

September 15, 2011 at 1:17 am#258353

Participant

Hi david,

It appears that many translations say, in the midst or among you while the KJV says within you.
Usually that would have some weight in my assessment as I think the KJV often stands alone and is also wrong on some of those stances.

However, the word among or within is entos {en-tos'} which is also used in Matt. 23:36.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

And in the latter context you would not say among the cup or plate unless you said among the cups and plates.
However, to add another layer of complexity, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and surely he wasn't saying that the Kingdom was within them.
(Or was he? Jesus did say “my sheep hear my voice”. And that hearing is in the spirit and is not talking about physical hearing which the Pharisees were able to do.)
It would however make sense to say among them (Pharisess) if indeed Jesus and/or his disciples were among the Pharisees, so to speak.

September 15, 2011 at 1:19 am#258355

Participant

Quote (david @ Aug. 11 2011,01:30)

He put Adam and Even on it and wanted them to take paradise and spread it over the earth.

Did you mean Adam and Eve or Adam and Steven?

September 15, 2011 at 1:20 am#258356

Participant

Quote (david @ Sep. 15 2011,17:37)

T8?

Gene?

The kingdom of God is something I think we should be more interested in. It doesn't get enough discussion.

david

I agree with you ,but you do not answer the quotes ,I have given you my scriptures and questions ,but of no avail you do not respond to it ,

so why should I continue ,you are one way track ,?

if not I wait,

Pierre

September 15, 2011 at 1:32 am#258359

Participant

Quote (david @ Sep. 10 2011,18:05)

WHAT IS GOD’S KINGDOM?

As you said, a government. Does it make sense that a government is within us? Was gods kingdom within the Pharisees?

I would really like an answer.

OK david.

I just read your post after I posted my previous one (ignoring the Adam and Steve one), and in hindsight, I have already touched on some of what you say.

Regarding the part I quote above, Jesus did say that he was in the Father and the Father in him, and that we could be one with each other and them in like fashion.
Now if Jesus is the appointed king of this kingdom and he can be in us, then it could be taken that hearing his voice and instruction is from within us because that is where he dwells.

It is quite feasible that he rules our heart and from there the mind and body is directed.

John says that the sons of God are those who are led by the Spirit. And how does the Spirit lead us?
By God's spirit bearing witness with our spirit. This of course is within us just as washing the inside of the cup is in the cup and not among the cup, (although in the plate)?

Perhaps the Pharisees only needed to hear God's voice. That still small voice within them.
Perhaps by not hearing that voice, they bore witness as to being cut of from God by their own choice.

Still need to think about it however.

September 15, 2011 at 2:55 am#258376

mikeboll64

Blocked

Okay, forget the “within” versus “among” for now. Do we all agree that the Kingdom of God is a viable thing? Do we agree that it will contain literal PLACES over which God reigns supreme? Will some people enter in to these places and live happy lives while others are forbidden to enter? Is the place where the sun is not needed a REAL place we can go to? Will the new earth be a REAL place where God's obedient children can live and raise families?

Or, are there some of us still thinking that the Kingdom of God is some kind of “enlightenment” we receive inside of us, and nothing more?

September 15, 2011 at 3:16 am#258381

Ed J

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 15 2011,12:32)

Quote (david @ Sep. 10 2011,18:05)

WHAT IS GOD’S KINGDOM?

As you said, a government. Does it make sense that a government is within us? Was gods kingdom within the Pharisees?

I would really like an answer.

OK david.

I just read your post after I posted my previous one (ignoring the Adam and Steve one), and in hindsight, I have already touched on some of what you say.

It is quite feasible that he rules our heart and from there the mind and body is directed.

Perhaps the Pharisees only needed to hear God's voice. That still small voice within them.
Perhaps by not hearing that voice, they bore witness as to being cut of from God by their own choice.

Still need to think about it however.

Hi T8,

Excellent post!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 15, 2011 at 4:29 am#258395