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52″Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”
They tried to gain a relationship with the Father by obeying rules, missing the obedience that follows, having a relationship with the Father.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 30 2009,22:10) 52″Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.” They tried to gain a relationship with the Father by obeying rules, missing the obedience that follows, having a relationship with the Father.
My opinion – Wm
Wrong, wrong, wrong!You are way off. It has nothing to do with keep or obeying the law or rules. Is that what your SUNday school teaches?
It is all about vain man made traditions overlapping what 'elohim put forth.
Luke 11:52 [1] Woe unto you, lawyers! [1a] for ye have {n} taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
[1] Those who ought to be the door keepers of the Church have for a long time mainly hindered the people from entering into the knowledge of 'elohim.
[1a] They have hidden and taken away, so that it cannot be found anywhere.
They have obscured and destroyed the knowledge of the Messiah, which is the key of both the present and the future kingdom of heaven; the kingdom of grace and glory. They have not entered into the present kingdom of heaven.
Quote And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of 'elohim, and by him that sitteth thereon. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. [Ye] blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. . . Matthew 23:12-32 It was never because they obeyed the law or rules or regulations. It was because the bastardized and abused the righteous law of 'elohim with there vAIN man made traditions and rituals. You want the answer for Luke 11:52 then read and meditate on all of Matthew chapter 23.
How dare you try to say that obedience to the law is something evil.
hi con
I thank you for the answer you surly slam the nail all a way down.
they obeyed the law in some respect, but they did not render glory to God for it ,they grabed the glory for themselfs,so the people are now mislaid ,and follow man.Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,10:22) Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Hi SeekingAgreed! His willingness to come under the law and judge others who do not is evident!
He stands by a Muslim who preaches and teaches against the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and yet judges those who oppose the Muslim and his falsehoods!
You shall know them by their fruits indeed!
WJ
to all
Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
That is the key.
Georg
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,07:22) Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
If you think correction and belittling are one and the same then it is your issue.What is the old saying?
Truth is a bitter pill.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,08:03) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,10:22) Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Hi SeekingAgreed! His willingness to come under the law and judge others who do not is evident!
He stands by a Muslim who preaches and teaches against the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and yet judges those who oppose the Muslim and his falsehoods!
You shall know them by their fruits indeed!
WJ
Rules , Laws, Commandments, Decrees, Sayings, are all the same thing in Scripture, they are all interchangable. Do you want PROOF?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,08:03) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,10:22) Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Hi SeekingAgreed! His willingness to come under the law and judge others who do not is evident!
He stands by a Muslim who preaches and teaches against the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and yet judges those who oppose the Muslim and his falsehoods!
You shall know them by their fruits indeed!
WJ
And we all see the dissention your'e promoting. Add to the thread and not the person, which you clearly have not done.Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,07:22) Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Abraham obeyed the law, he obeyed it poorely, Abraham was saved through his faith and not the law. It was through faith that Abraham could obey the law, as poorely as he did.No different than us.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 30 2009,23:21) hi con
I thank you for the answer you surly slam the nail all a way down.
they obeyed the law in some respect, but they did not render glory to God for it ,they grabed the glory for themselfs,so the people are now mislaid ,and follow man.
It irritates me when folks twist and squirm scripture.Ron,
I do not understand you. You twist what I say with your statement “How dare you try to say that obedience to the law is something evil.” Something I clearly did not imply in any way (reread my post), then you accuse me of twisting scripture. Would you please point out what scripture(s) I was supposed to have “twisted or squirmed”?Wm
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 03 2009,09:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,08:03) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,10:22) Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Hi SeekingAgreed! His willingness to come under the law and judge others who do not is evident!
He stands by a Muslim who preaches and teaches against the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and yet judges those who oppose the Muslim and his falsehoods!
You shall know them by their fruits indeed!
WJ
And we all see the dissention your'e promoting. Add to the thread and not the person, which you clearly have not done.
discord: disagreement among those expected to cooperateHow are Christians and Muslims “expected to cooperate”? So how is it dissension, however, spreading disagreements between Christians is dissension and false accusations create disagreements.
My opinion – Wm
hi Ron
you make big lectures but i dont buy, could you show were my statement is rwong,in the scriptures i mean in teachings of Christ.if not you may change your statment abode mine,from Dec03-09;14;14
hi ron
i just find out that some on this side try to cooperate with muslims ,???
i am not rasist but what has Christ in comminion with the muslims or with catholics,and who ever does not believe in him as the savior of our live.
this is deffinetly not my view of fullfilling God work.
it seams that 1400 century s of discution is not enough???
there is so much documentation on the history of christian and muslum philosohpy even before the KoranQuote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 03 2009,14:14) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 30 2009,23:21) hi con
I thank you for the answer you surly slam the nail all a way down.
they obeyed the law in some respect, but they did not render glory to God for it ,they grabed the glory for themselfs,so the people are now mislaid ,and follow man.
It irritates me when folks twist and squirm scripture.
Hi Ron:I believe that you came on pretty strong when addressing seeking, and I believe also that you have misunderstood what he was saying. I believe that you at least should have asked him give you an explanation for what he was saying regarding “rules”. I don't believe that he was implying “the law”, but the extra rules and regulations that the Pharisees were adding to the law.
Quote Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.If this is what he meant, then I believe that you owe seeking an apology.
Love in Christ,
MartyOriginal post:
Quote seekingtruth, Posted: Nov. 30 2009,22:10, 52″Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.” They tried to gain a relationship with the Father by obeying rules, missing the obedience that follows, having a relationship with the Father.
My opinion – Wm
He gave a verse about “experts in the LAW”.
He then posted a comment about that verse, with the exception of he used the word “rules”.
The word “rules”, and “law” can be interchangable.
There is no implication here of interpretation of “ADDED” or “ADDED – MAN MADE RULES” in his post.
So, since we see NOTHING IMPLIED in his original post.
I responded about the verse he QUOTED:
Quote Constitutionalist, Posted: Nov. 30 2009,22:55, Wrong, wrong, wrong!
You are way off. It has nothing to do with keep or obeying the law or rules. Is that what your SUNday school teaches?
It is all about vain man made traditions overlapping what 'elohim put forth.
Luke 11:52 [1] Woe unto you, lawyers! [1a] for ye have {n} taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
[1] Those who ought to be the door keepers of the Church have for a long time mainly hindered the people from entering into the knowledge of 'elohim.
[1a] They have hidden and taken away, so that it cannot be found anywhere.
They have obscured and destroyed the knowledge of the Messiah, which is the key of both the present and the future kingdom of heaven; the kingdom of grace and glory. They have not entered into the present kingdom of heaven.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of 'elohim, and by him that sitteth thereon. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. [Ye] blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. . . Matthew 23:12-32It was never because they obeyed the law or rules or regulations. It was because the bastardized and abused the righteous law of 'elohim with there vAIN man made traditions and rituals. You want the answer for Luke 11:52 then read and meditate on all of Matthew chapter 23.
How dare you try to say that obedience to the law is something evil.
I explained what the verse actually means.
Now he switches up what he is saying, he is saying rules are not laws, but they are laws. And now he introduces 'MAN MADE LAWS”, see it?
Quote rules are not laws they are man made laws. Quote seekingtruth, Posted: Dec. 01 2009,07:22, Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Notice he says “rules” are not “laws” but yet he says they are “laws”.
And he NEVER mentioned “MAN MADE LAWS/RULES” in first post, but briefly tossed it in his second post. And yet neither of those two post correctly portrayed the 'VERSE” he quoted.
And you agreed with him.
He then tossed in my correcting him on the quoting and his intepretation of that verse as “belittling”. Not much I can do about that, those are his feelings.
But I did respond to him:
Quote Constitutionalist, Dec. 02 2009,19:04, Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,07:22)
Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
If you think correction and belittling are one and the same then it is your issue.
What is the old saying?
Truth is a bitter pill.
Quote Constitutionalist, Posted: Dec. 02 2009,19:06, Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,08:03)
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,10:22)
Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Hi Seeking
Agreed! His willingness to come under the law and judge others who do not is evident!
He stands by a Muslim who preaches and teaches against the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and yet judges those who oppose the Muslim and his falsehoods!
You shall know them by their fruits indeed!
WJ
Rules , Laws, Commandments, Decrees, Sayings, are all the same thing in Scripture, they are all interchangable. Do you want PROOF?
I even offered to show him how it is interchangable.
So if you read it carefully, you see he meant them as the same thing, until I added my post, then he changed it up in in second post.
I do not apologize for correcting.
And you should read a little carefully.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 02 2009,20:46) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 03 2009,09:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,08:03) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 01 2009,10:22) Ron,
I in no way said that, when I said obeying rules I was saying the same as you, rules are not laws they are man made laws. But even so expecting to be made right with God by our obedience to His law… Abraham was made right with God through his perfect life? Yes obedience is important, but true obedience is as a result of knowing God, not that we know God as a result of our obedience.I appreciate your belittling me, you show that christian love we're to be known for.
My opinion – Wm
Hi SeekingAgreed! His willingness to come under the law and judge others who do not is evident!
He stands by a Muslim who preaches and teaches against the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and yet judges those who oppose the Muslim and his falsehoods!
You shall know them by their fruits indeed!
WJ
And we all see the dissention your'e promoting. Add to the thread and not the person, which you clearly have not done.
discord: disagreement among those expected to cooperateHow are Christians and Muslims “expected to cooperate”? So how is it dissension, however, spreading disagreements between Christians is dissension and false accusations create disagreements.
My opinion – Wm
Quote He stands by a Muslim who preaches and teaches against the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and yet judges those who oppose the Muslim and his falsehoods! You shall know them by their fruits indeed!
That was nothing but capriciousness and retalitory only because I do not show hatred for Muslims like you do.
You attacked me just because I do not/did not support you attacking him.
Case closed.
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