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Hi Steve,
Where are men shown judging during the tribulation?
Those who are alive in Christ never really die but sleep.
Only the sons of God can know the Spirit of Christ among themHi Steve,
Rev11
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
So the worldwide evangelism of the gospel takes place, the rapture occurs and the wrath of God is expressed as righteous judgement on those who remain on the earth?
Read the last chapter of Isaiah, he sends his servants to the far ends of the earth. Jesus told Israel the next time they would see him was when they said blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord. Natural Israel, like all other nations, will see Christ through those who have been conformed to his image, during the tribulation. This will be the last chance for anyone to be saved, jew or gentile.
Hi Steve,
Is 66
5Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.6A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
18For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
So in the time of the great tribulation Israel finally produces the fruit of repentance and faith and draws from God the blessings He has longed to grant her for so long?
Quote So in the time of the great tribulation Israel finally produces the fruit of repentance and faith and draws from God the blessings He has longed to grant her for so long? And all nations shall hear the Word of the Lord. This gospel shall be preached to all nations and then shall the end come. Then Jesus says Christ comes after the tribulation of those days.
What's so interesting Nick is that the great tribulation also includes a great revival such as the world has never seen, not just the persecution of the saints. Generally, revival and persecution go together. Jesus promised that those servants that were ready when he appeared would be ready to receive greater authority and talents for the performance of this ministry. Otherwise, what's the point of giving them greater power and authority.
Hi Steve,
After the tribulation begins the 1000 year reign of Christ and his brothers over the surviving nations.Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 14 2008,05:18) Quote So in the time of the great tribulation Israel finally produces the fruit of repentance and faith and draws from God the blessings He has longed to grant her for so long? And all nations shall hear the Word of the Lord. This gospel shall be preached to all nations and then shall the end come. Then Jesus says Christ comes after the tribulation of those days.
What's so interesting Nick is that the great tribulation also includes a great revival such as the world has never seen, not just the persecution of the saints. Generally, revival and persecution go together. Jesus promised that those servants that were ready when he appeared would be ready to receive greater authority and talents for the performance of this ministry. Otherwise, what's the point of giving them greater power and authority.
Hi Steve,
I believe the feet of Christ standing on the Mount of Olives is at the end of the tribulation when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies. He comes back from the wedding feast with his bride.Thus the worldwide gospel proclamation takes place before that time starting mid tribulation when no sons of God remain on earth.
Quote Hi Steve,
I believe the feet of Christ standing on the Mount of Olives is at the end of the tribulation when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies. He comes back from the wedding feast with his bride.Thus the worldwide gospel proclamation takes place before that time starting mid tribulation when no sons of God remain on earth.
Jesus gave the parable about the wicked husband who were given the vineyard. The parable appears in Mathew, Mark, and Luke. The result is that the kingdom of God would be taken from Israel and given to a nation producing the fruits thereof. That nation is the church, the holy nation of God. This is what Jesus taught, hear ye him.
I don't subscribe to a seven year tribulation, I believe it's only 3 and a half years. During this time the manchild company evangelizes the earth and all nations.
During the tribulation the anti-christ will rule from natural Jerusalem and deceive many including many natural Jews since this is what they believed the kingdom of God to be about when Christ came the first time. Some Jews will no doubt be saved during the tribulation but they will be facing great deception due to the anti-christ rule in Jerusalem.
God's covenant to Israel was to blot out their sins. This was fulfilled in Christ. It's written about in Romans and Hebrews with respect to fulfilling the prophecy in Isaiah and Jeremiah and Ezekiel. God kept his covenant through Christ. Those who are in Christ are the heirs according to the promise.
Hi Steve,
Where does scripture show the antichrist ruling from Jerusalem deceiving many?Manchild company evangelists?
II Thes says he sits in the temple and shewing himself that he is God.
The manchild is a company of believers because it is given to him to rule all nations with a rod of iron. This is the promise to those who overcome.
Jesus said the disciple is not above his master but he that is mature shall be as his master. The woman in Revelation 12 represents the church. The manchild is prophesied of in Isaiah 66:7-8. Jesus also alluded to this in John 16:21Hi Steve,
You quote Is 66 as being about of group of christians who rule?6A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Seems to about Israel to me.
Nick;
Until you understand that the church is Israel, you will not see the truth of the coming kingdom.
Jesus said those who do his will are his brothers and sisters. Paul said those who are circumcised in their hearts are the true Jews. This is the central truth of Paul's teaching.
John the Baptist and Jesus told the natural Jews not to think that because they were the natural descendants of Abraham that they were the children of God. This was a fundamental teaching of Jesus Christ.
Jesus taught in the parable of the vineyard that the natural Jews would have the kingdom taken from them and given to those who are actually bringing forth fruit in the kingdom of God. The jews wanted to kill him for this.
Any doctrine that contradicts that goes directly against what Christ taught.
Steven
Hi Steve,
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The jews must be regrafted onto the olive tree of the True Israel.
Nick;
This has been fulfilled through Christ. The new covenant with the house of Israel is in Christ. He took away the sins of the world when he died and rose again. They have to accept it like everyone else.
Your conclusions contradict what Christ taught of natural Israel.
He said it would be better for Sodom and Gommorrah in the day of judgment. Jesus concluded that the kingdom would be taken from them.
For any Jew to be grafted back in they must repent and receive Christ.During the tribulation when the antichrist rules from Jerusalem most of the Jews will be deceived into believing that he is their savior and be lost in the strong delusion that's on the way.
Steven
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