The gospel

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
What new gospel?

Gal1
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

[chosenone]

NH.
The CORRECT explanation of Gal.1:6-8:

6 Unlike Paul's other epistles, there is no note of thanksgiving or blessing in this opening strain. Corinth, with all its moral and doctrinal evil, did not fail to call this forth. But here, the defection is too serious. Instead, he marvels at the Galatians and hurls his anathema at those who are disturbing them.
The two evangels were different in kind and could not be classed together. They had been called in the grace of Christ. They were being transferred to the bondage of law.

8 The intense zeal of the apostle for the evangel he had proclaimed comes out in the fact that he calls down this anathema on himself, in case he should be guilty of distorting the message he is proclaiming. It is worthy of note that he is not objecting to the apostles of the Circumcision preaching a distinct evangel to them. That was what they had been commissioned for. But they had agreed that they would not go to the nations. Hence he repeats the words to you thrice.

Blessings.

[kerwin]

The Thinker:

Quote

The book of Hebrews was written before Paul's new covenant gospel was revealed. They were still partially under the old covenant system then. Animal sacrifices were still being offered. This indicates that the old covenant has not fully passed away.

Paul is claimed to have died in 64 or 67 A.D. according to Wikipedia though others believed he died a few years earlier.  The abolition of sacrifice occurred in 70AD after Paul’s death so you argument is badly flawed.  We do not even know for sure who wrote Hebrews.

The Old Covenant or Law did not pass away according to the passage from Galatians I am quoting it cannot pass away but it is fulfilled by the conception, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus The Messiah. Since it is fulfilled those who enter the New covenant are no longer under the Old but have something better in that they can now by the power of God fulfill God’s desire to have a people that are truly righteous as He is righteous.

Galatians 3:15-25(NIV):

Quote

Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Scripture clearly states that if you sin you are a servant of sin and if you are a servant of sin then you are under the law and not under grace.   We know that Jesus came to set us free from sin so the gospel of Jesus Christ must be a way to be set free from sin.  The question then becomes are you happy being a servant of sin or do you hope to righteous as God is righteous.  In the end the proof will be in the pudding.

[NickHassan]

CO,
Scripture does not need rationalisation.
It speaks simply to us.

[kerwin]

Nick Hassan:

Quote

Scripture does not need rationalization. It speaks simply to us.

I am not quite certain what you saying here but the message of gospel is a rational message and sticks together from first to last as God is a rational God.  That does not mean it is not amazing nor does it mean that it does not speak to certain people.

Many people here are in fact teaching irrational messages which in itself shows those messages are false for God is not a God of contradictions.

We are told blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness and those people will believe they can stop sinning in this world.   If a teaching is damaging to that belief then it is logically not a part of the true gospel of Jesus Christ but one put forth by hypocritical liars who do not want to stop sinning.

[KangarooJack]

Kerwin said:

Quote

The Old Covenant or Law did not pass away according to the passage from Galatians I am quoting it cannot pass away but it is fulfilled by the conception, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus The Messiah.

Kerwin,
You left something out in reference to the fulfillment of the old covenant and the bringing in of the new. Moses commanded two parts to the atoning work of the high priest. In the first part the animal was killed. In the second part the high priest would put the blood of the animal in a basin and would sprinkle that blood on the altar of the sanctuary.

The atonement was not completed until the sprinkling of the blood was completed.

Likewise, the shedding of the blood of Jesus was only the first part. Afterwards He had to enter the heavenly sanctuary and sprinkle His blood on the altar according to the law of Moses. This was the “intercession” that Hebrews spoke about. Since Hebrews was written when Christ was still sprinkling His blood on the heavenly altar, and the atonement was not complete until that was finished, then Hebrews was written BEFORE the new covenant came.

So the dates you offer me about the death of Paul are unimpressive. Here is fact: When the book of Hebrews was written Jesus was still making intercession by the sprinkling of His blood on the heavenly altar. According to Moses the atonement was not complete until the sprinkling was complete. Ezekiel agrees.

Therefore, the new covenant did not come until AD70 when Jesus FINISHED the atoning work in its entirety.

thinker

[Rabsheka]

Greetings Nick, Kerwin and others,

Now I have resisted the urge to enter the discussion on THE GOSPEL for fear of being battered around the head again with scripture after scripture, all to no avail towards agreement, which is vanity. However, I have been listening within myself and have come to the conclusion that I must say to you things as I see them, whether by Spirit or my own need I do not know. But here goes.

It is clear to me that the quotings of scripture here on either side of an issue often fail to to establish agreement because we often confuse apples and oranges. That is to say one scripture is quoted to establish proposition A and is countered with another which really relates to propositon B or vice versa. And in this topic, the main problem is “covenants'. So, let me list the Great covenents, as they are argued according to their properties in historical order.

Covenant When Type Purpose Duration Between

Noah After Flood Blood The Earth never Destroyed by water again Forever God and all men
Abraham After Isaac Offered Blood Establishes Faith as Righteousness Forever God and Abraham and Christ
The Law Sinai Blood Daily Supervision Until Christ Until No Daily Blood God and All Israelites
Christian Jews Death Of Christ Innocent Blood Offers Israelites New Covenant Exclusively Temple Destroyed God and All Righteous Israelites & proselites
Christian Death Of Christ Innocent Blood Offers All Men New Covenant Forever God and All Righteous Men In Christ

Now you can be picky picky over this if you like, but please offer your forebearance because this is only yet a table if you will.

Covenant With Noah
This simply guaranteed that God would never destroy the earth again by water. But it is also symbolic as the first baptism and also is a prophacy that God would never allow the sea, that is wicked mankind, to destroy the earth. So put away your bombs boys (LOL).

Covenant With Abraham
This is a covenant that regulates faith in God. It says that the believer in accordance with HIS name itself, confesses that God will do everything that he says He will do – Forever. It is open to all, and those who accept it become friends of God and WILL AGAIN LIVE. The only thing to be argued is to what station/rank/order for each. But it includes such as Abraham, Moses, Samuel, David, Daniel and the prophets and, yes, Our Lord Jesus himself . It's hallmark is obedience, particularly in adversity threatening death.

The Law Covenant
Now the very first prophesy says that the woman would bring forth her offspring who would defeat Satan in protracted travail. And this very period of travail corresponds to the time of the Law. Who is the woman you ask? It is those very people qualifid under the Covenant of Abraham. GOD'S WIFE (and the crowd roared Kill Him Kill Him! I hear you lawyers say). I will not go into it now for we are talking more about covenants, but she is talked about in Isaiah, Jeramiah and Revelations among others. As Paul tells us, the law was put in place as a supervisor until He who was legally entitled arrived to carry out the promise made to Abraham that all the nations would be blessed through Him. Yes, the Law would not save anybody. But notice from Paul, the covenant of Abraham was also in effect over the Law's duration. Refer Gal 3:15-21 above. Was the Law useless if it could not save. No indeed. For it's main function among other things was to produce (if you will) the Messiah himself. It supervised his fleshly ancestors towards his birth, e.g. Boaz. To finish on the Law, you will note that the temple was destroyed twice, and both times the daily sacrifices were ceased, the first of course during the captivity to Babylon. And it was the covenamt of Abraham that sustained the righteous Israelites in that place until the temple could be rebuilt.

Christian Jew Covenant
It was through their birthright as God's first nation/son that The jews were entitled to be offered the Kingdom first (and the crown roared Blasphemy , Kill him, not so). But, as a nation they rejected it as they had rejected God himself many times before. But it was God who was faithful, and so it was done, the offering that is. There was a promising start, for many believed when the Lord spoke and gave them the miracles. But He knew it would not last, even then taking steps to go beyond the lost sheep of Israel to whom only He was sent, in that he gave the right and responsibility to establish the church to his apostles before He died. As for the Jews, they were given a crossover period of grace if you like, until the temple would be destroyed and they would be cut off, both from the Kingdom and again the land that they had received by lots. But non-jews received Holy Spirit before 70 AD I hear you say in objection. To which I reply, they were proselites in the land and just as entitled as Jews.

The Christian Covenant
The Christian Covenant went forth from the moment of our Lord's death. The Order commenced with Peter, who was early on sometimes a Christian jew and later a Christian and sometimes something in between. Now some say that this Covenant began with Paul through his commission at the words of Our Lord that we are not privy to. For what the man in Straight Street told him is reserved for us in the future. But even Paul when he first went to the lands of the gentiles preached “To the Jew First And Also The Greek”. And again, many of these Greek speaking people were proselites in the synagogs. But it is clear that the Lord had instructed him that the Christian Jewish Law covenant was not for the Gentiles, because he preached this without the prior permission of the Apostles, until ratified through Peter at what is called the first council of Jerusalem. But while a new covenant, this was not a new Gospel, for it was decided that in addition to loving God, loving your neighbour (everybody), refraining from (eating) blood/strangled animal/food offered to idols and also proscribed (in the law) sexual offences, all things totally consistant with our Lord's teachings (sorry sabath keepers). And so, the temple was destroyed, the Law covenant and the Jewish Christian covenant ceased and we are left with what we know.

Now what is this all about you say? We know all this and even agree with some. All I am saying is that when you talk or write, know the difference between Gospel and covenent, and the difference between covenant and covenant that a particular scripture relates to and specify. That way we may love one another and even establish something.

May you have the undeserved kindness of Our Lord Jesus Christ

RS

[NickHassan]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2009,21:43)

Nick Hassan: Quote Scripture does not need rationalization. It speaks simply to us. I am not quite certain what you saying here but the message of gospel is a rational message and sticks together from first to last as God is a rational God.  That does not mean it is not amazing nor does it mean that it does not speak to certain people. Many people here are in fact teaching irrational messages which in itself shows those messages are false for God is not a God of contradictions. We are told blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness and those people will believe they can stop sinning in this world.   If a teaching is damaging to that belief then it is logically not a part of the true gospel of Jesus Christ but one put forth by hypocritical liars who do not want to stop sinning.

HIKW,
The Word of God is a sacred seed.

It is accepted by good soil and grows to be a useful plant.

Some would pretreat the sacred seeds so they will become useless.

The Word is of God's Spirit and does not need rationalisation and justification.

If our minds cannot accept the seed as they are then guess who has to have their minds enlarged

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The gospel is of the Kingdom.
Different servants showed different aspects of this one gospel.
We cannot do without any of their inspired words be they from the vine Jesus, or branches Peter, Paul or Jude etc.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….what if God inspired some one now. Would you reject it? or do you think that God only worked through those who existed back then and does not even now work and inspire people and give more understanding. You seem to be stuck in the past and unable to advance for (fear) it is in error. Even Daniel was told that Things were concealed until the end time. And in Revelations it says at the time of the end the (MYSTERY OF GOD) would be known. So if it was a mystery until the end then there remains some understanding yet to be discovered right. Why do you think Paul said to despise not Prophesy and God gave all kinds of Gifts to us, one it this and to another its that, for there are different gifts in the body of Christ given by the same Spirit. Why should you think we are not also of the branches as well as Peter and the rest. Do you think God is limited on His ability to reveal new Knowledge to his children. We are told to (GROW) in GRACE and KNOWLEDGE. Now if someone is speaking against what Jesus or the Apostles said thats another thing I am not saying that we should believe that, and Gods Spirit of Truth teaches us not to accept it. But we can not deny clarification of scripture either, because many thing are not clearly stated in scripture or we would not be having all these discussions and disagreements. Hopefully we all are learning more and more as we go along. IMO

love and peace to you and yours………………………..gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
False christs and false prophets will arise and perform miracles and many will foolishly follow them.
The Spirit reminds us of the words of Jesus and only the unwise do not abide there.
The Spirit does no speak of His own initiative so test the spirits.

[NickHassan]

Hi Seeking,
You said in another thread
“On these forums we have been introduced to The “Faith Alone” gospel that was introduced to Paul while he was in Prison. It is said this is made clear in Rom.3:21.”

Rom3
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

No new gospel.

Paul draws the line for the Jews between works of the Law and the righteousness which is by faith in Jesus Christ and submission to his Lordship and his new commands. Jesus is the sacrifice and those whao are obedient and cleansed by his blood are protected by the wrath of God like the blood on the lintels at passover.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick…….False (anointed) one are everywhere, even tunning Jesus into very GOD himself, This Has been going on form the start, more then a thousand years. The Spirit reminds us of the words of GOD Nick, the same words Jesus spoke to us. whosoever believes on me doe not believe on me but on him who sent me, Why do you think Jesus said that , because people would start pushing Him up into GOD the FATHERS position, as they all ready have. They will say to him in (YOUR NAME) this and that we did, don't fall into that trap Brother.

love and peace…………………to you…………gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
That is why you need to know the rod and staff of the true Christ.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……Yes and i think you also need to know who is the (true) CHRISTOS> And HIS and Staff that comforts. ASK King DAVID He knew, “for they rod and staff doth comfort me”, does it comfort you Nick, i hope so.

ppeace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Mk 1

1 The beginning of the gospel [2098] of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Number 2098
Transliteration:
euaggelion {yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on}
Word Origin:
from the same as 2097
TDNT:
2:721,267
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
gospel 46, gospel of Christ 11, gospel of God 7, gospel of the Kingdom 3, misc 10

Total: 77
Definition:
a reward for good tidings
good tidings
the glad tidings of the kingdom of God soon to be set up, and subsequently also of Jesus the Messiah, the founder of this kingdom. After the death of Christ, the term comprises also the preaching of (concerning) Jesus Christ as having suffered death on the cross to procure eternal salvation for the men in the kingdom of God, but as restored to life and exalted to the right hand of God in heaven, thence to return in majesty to consummate the kingdom of God
the glad tidings of salvation through Christ
the proclamation of the grace of God manifest and pledged in Christ
the gospel
as the messianic rank of Jesus was proved by his words, his deeds, and his death, the narrative of the sayings, deeds, and death of Jesus Christ came to be called the gospel or glad tidings

[Not3in1]

Nick and Gene,

The “I think you need this….”, and the come back, “Well, I think you need this….”, is soooooo nanny-nanny-boo-boo!!

I wish you brother's would bury your pride and debate without being so jealous of one another. Geesh!
Every time I see a Nick and Gene interaction, I can expect the same.
It's tit-for-tat.
It's not edifying at all.
I don't know how many times I have just checked in for a moment – for inspiration perhaps – and been in the middle of kids fighting.

Aren't you guys – old guys?
Aren't you old enough, and mature enough in the Lord to be beyond this bickering you do, and this one-upping thing you do?

Shaking head……
I'm off to bed.
Love you both (but really),
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Scripture is for correction.
It is the sword of the Spirit.

It will be effective

[Not3in1]

Oh, so you're “correcting” your brother Gene? Ohhhh, that makes more sense now. Now I get it.

Spare me!
Goodnight, bro.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
No trying to help one again entangled with the world and it's false teachers.
We have a different foundation so true dialogue is impossible.

[Author]

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