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CO,
Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,We would offer you more scripture but you seem to need to put it through your doctrinal food mixer till it reflects what you believe. Such abuse of the Word is not good for you or anyone.
The gospel includes many elements and one is about the knowledge of God. You must believe that when God makes a promise he can and will fulfill that promise no matter how impossible it seems. You much believe that God wants you to be saved and will strive to save you. You must believe that God is truly righteous and desires true righteousness from his servants.
A second element is that you must believe that Jesus is the Messiah promised by God to the people of old and the one that God has now made king over everything in heaven and on earth.
You must believe that Jesus is the archetype of the righteous man or in other words the image of the invisible God and that God speaks and acts through him.
You must believe Jesus is a human being just like the rest of us and so fully tempted by sin even as we are but without giving into that temptation because he maintains a perfect faith even to this day.
You must believe that what Jesus did for himself he can do for you by the power of God.
A third element is that you must believe that you can stop sinning in this world. You must believe that cannot stop sinning by human effort because the spirit of man is corrupt but you can stop sinning by the power of God because the new spirit he gives you is not corrupt and can be adhered to by faith in God's Goodness and Power.
You must believe that Jesus promised that spirit with the words “blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled” and in other places.
You must believe all of this when you chose to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins which is the forth element. Baptism is an act of obedience that involves being immersed in water. Here I have some confusion since baptism was originally a Jewish ritual and the way they practice it today is different than how it is practiced in the Christian churches of this time. The bible seems to support the idea that both the baptiser and baptisee get into the water unlike what Jewish people do.
The last element is that you need to mature in your faith and thus learn to live by the spirit you receive at baptism until you reach a fullness in Christ and then you must persevere in that faith.
Believing Jesus is a God, Angel, Semi-God, etc. is damaging to the faith because it damages your belief that he was tempted just as you are but without sin.
Good stuff KW,
Thanks,
Though we should believe what scripture reveals about the unique origins of the Son of God knowing that he was still on earth truly a son of man.Quote Hi David.
Yes, He did tell His disciples to do that (Matt.28:19-20), but notice they never did go “to the nations”.So you're saying his followers didn't follow him? They didn't listen to him?
Either they did as he said in Matthew 28:19-20, or they didn't. You are saying they didn't.
Why wouldn't they?Quote Hi David.
The world came to know about Jesus when Israel rejected and Crucified their “Messiah”, and still rejected Him after His resurrection. God then turned to the “nations”: Acts 13:46-47 …46 Being bold, both Paul and Barnabas, say, “To you (Israel) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet, since, in fact, you are thrusting it away, and are judging yourselves not worthy of eonian life, lo! we are turning to the nations.
47 For thus the Lord has directed us: I have appointed Thee for a light of the nations; for Thee to be for salvation as far as the limits of the earth.'”Paul was commissioned to the nations: Ro.15:16-17 …15 Yet more daringly do I write to you, in part, as prompting you, because of the grace being given to me from God,
16 for me to be the minister of Christ Jesus for the nations, acting as a priest of the evangel of God, that the approach present of the nations may be becoming well received, having been hallowed by holy spirit.Let's look at this scripture:
MATTHEW 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.””Jesus disciples (followers) were told to “go” and makes disciples and to teach these disciples (“taught ones/learners”) to observe all the things that Jesus commanded them–INCLUDING THIS VERY COMMAND TO “GO” and make disciples, and to teach those disciples all the things Jesus commanded them.
And so, Jesus followers would make more followers, and teach them Jesus commands, including this command to make more disciples.Yet, you say “his disiples did not do that.” If not, do you think it was Paul's disicples who did it?
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2009,13:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2009,11:47) Hi 94,
Are you expecting to be ordained by God as a bishop?
Hi Nick:Yes, I am.
94, a Catholic Bishop?
Because if so, two things:
1. You have just raised my perception of Bishops.
2. I have a thousand questions that you won't like.Quote (david @ Jan. 21 2009,11:58) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2009,13:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2009,11:47) Hi 94,
Are you expecting to be ordained by God as a bishop?
Hi Nick:Yes, I am.
94, a Catholic Bishop?
Because if so, two things:
1. You have just raised my perception of Bishops.
2. I have a thousand questions that you won't like.
No David not a Catholic Bishop. God has shown me that He intends to ordain me and use me as an overseer in a non-denominational church which is pentecostal oriented. These are a group of believers who are full of zeal for God, but who need to be corrected. God will correct them through me.Here is some scripture which pertains to the office of a Bishop. I desire the office only if that is how God chooses to use me. I believe that this is what He has shown me, and I am available, and will obey Him.
Quote 1Ti 3:1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2009,04:00) Good stuff KW,
Thanks,
Though we should believe what scripture reveals about the unique origins of the Son of God knowing that he was still on earth truly a son of man.
I am not quite sure what you mean here but assume you meant that his origins fulfilled scripture in that he was born of a virgin and was of the line of David. There is also points such as being born and Bethlehem and having a testimony of his being special written in the stars of that time. Those are all part of him being the Messiah prophesied of in the Old Testament as is his suffering and dying on the cross. I had chosen not to expound on that in the interest of brevity.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2009,12:49) Hi KW,
He is the monogenes son of God who was sent into the world[1Jn4]
I am not sure quite what the one and only Son of God means besides saying he is the Archetype righteous man. The angels that chose not to sin are also sons of God. I am sure that Jesus is not an angel and doubt he is anything but a human being just like we are.Hi KW,
Never an angel but the man from heaven. Absolutely the same as us with no inbuilt advantage. He had emptied himself and taken our flesh nature.Quote Nick Hassan: Never an angel but the man from heaven. Absolutely the same as us with no inbuilt advantage. He had emptied himself and taken our flesh nature.
If I understand you correctly you seem to have a Christology that agrees with the Jehovah’s Witnesses translation of John 1:1 which they believe states “and the Word was a god.” They also believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael which is a belief I do not believe you hold to. The flaw I see in their argument is that it weakens the belief that Jesus was tempted just as we are but without sin but you do not believe it weakens that faith.
I look to Hebrews where the writer seems to argue that Jesus is not an angel but was created a man who is a little lower than the angels then later risen up to have authority over the angels. I then asked myself and God why the writer felt that arguing against the teaching that Jesus was an angel was necessary to support the gospel. The answer that was revealed to me is that believing Jesus is an angel is damaging to the belief that Jesus was tempted even as we are because angels are not tempted as we are. I say this because from reading scripture it seems clear to me that an angel that sins has no hope of salvation and the only reason I can come up for this is that any sin an angel does is against the Holy Spirit. That is not true of humanity.
I am convinced that some translators are false witnesses as they are biased toward supporting their false doctrine when translating scripture. Since most translators are Trinitarians and by default believe in the preexistence of Jesus they are biased toward choosing translating scripture to support those beliefs even when other choices are available. We just have to be careful not to be misled by them.
Do you know of any prophesies from the Old Testament that support Jesus’ preexistence.
I am looking up Jewish though on the subject and at least some Jews believe in the preexistence of the souls of the righteous. I am not sure how prevalent that viewpoint was at the time of Jesus.
There are pre-existence discussions going on in more appropriate threads. Any chance of moving this there?
People will locate what you are saying more easily if it is in a discussion with a title that resembles what you are saying.Thanks.
Kerwin………GOD has showed you right , Jesus did not prexist, and the thought of that destroys His (exact) identity to man.
love and peace to you and yours………………….gene
Hi,
I show what is written.
This is what CO says
“NH.
It cetainly wasn't “the one eternal gospel for all”. Your heretical, non-biblical, false teaching. “Will nobody else stand up and defend the written gospel?
“Heaven Net is a website that is dedicated to encouraging believers in Christ to rise up and fight the good fight of faith”
Those that understand scripure surely know that Jesus taught the “Gospel of the kingdom”, that was only for Israel. While Paul was chosen by God to preach the “Gospel of 'Grace'”, that is for the 'body of Christ', Jew and Gentile, and chosen by God. Two different gospels.
CO,
There is one kingdom with one king, Jesus.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:Colossians 4:11
And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.THE LORD JESUS AND PAUL DISTINGUISHED
At the outset of our inquiry, let us then discriminate that which the Lord Jesus proclaimed to Israel: the kingdom of God. What He said of it, we must retain in the context in which He gave it. Paul preached to the nations the evangel of God’s grace, gathering the saints who are the ecclesia which is the body of Christ. All that the Lord Jesus said, His words as well as His figures, accords with the object of His mission to Israel and finds its correspondences in the Hebrew prophecies, which relate to Israel’s establishment as God’s holy nation on earth. But what Paul says has a more extensive horizon and deals first with blessings among the celestials for the saints, yet also develops matters related to the universe outside the earth.
Israel’s blessings then, are upon the earth; they focus Messiah’s glory on this terrestrial scene. The blessings of the ecclesia are celestial and focus Christ’s greater glories, related to His allotment of the universe. Birth is the figure which conveys to us what makes Israel’s sons fit for the earthly, millennial sphere. But creation is the figure necessary to indicate the new and radical features of the ways of God which are not centred in Israel.
With these distinctions made plain, we are ready to consider the difference between the figures and, at the same time, to develop their respective connections and the revelations which range along with them.Copied from the 'CPC'
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