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@Gene,
Jesus said……that “ALL”LAW, and the prophets were hinged on these “TWO THINGS”, “love” for God, and “love”for man . SO, Paul was right it seems when he said, “LOVE” FULFILLS “ALL”. the law. That totally agrees with Jesus the Messiah of God.
Except Paul didn’t say that; what he said (from Gal 5:14) “For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” No where did Paul say “LOVE” FULFILLS “ALL”, you made that up! Paul explicitly states there is ONE command and it’s to love your neighbor as yourself, with zero mention of G-d and the Jesus said there are two; the first being to LOVE G-D. At the beginning of the chapter Paul says the “law” entangles and is a burden; what a word salad of double speak. No wonder people are confused by his writings.
Lev 19:32 “You shall stand up before the gray head and honor the face of an old man” is a command given by G-d; do you reject this one? If not, why not; according to Paul you must. He teaches the “law” brings knowledge of sin(Rom 3:20), the law is a curse(Gal 3:13), the law entangles and is a yoke/burden(Gal 5:1), and we are no longer under the it(Romans 6:14). This command isn’t one of the “10 Commandments”, now what?
What’s hilarious is how christianity rejects the commands given to Moses and claims they aren’t under them anymore, BUT, if christians would read them they would be stunned at how many they actually follow and/or agree with. Christians have been taught for so long G-d’s commands are obsolete, they don’t realize G-d’s commands are built into them and is why they know the difference between good and evil (remember the tree Adam and Eve ate from). By the way, G-d’s commands aren’t limited to “ten” (with only nine christians follow – that sabbath day thing).
Paul is an enemy and false teacher of G-d. You even say “just like Peter said, some of his writings were hard to understand”, which means Paul intentionally spoke in a confusing manner and therefore CANNOT be a messenger of G-d’s. G-d spoke clearly so all would understand; Paul speaks with confusion and is why there are many different interpretations of what he says. Paul’s teaching are a reason why few religions agree with each other. Can you explain how your faith/belief system is the right one and has ALL the correct understandings of Paul? What makes your faith so special?
DT you said, “Can you explain how your faith/belief system is the right one and has ALL the correct understandings of Paul? What makes your faith so special?”
The difference between my Faith and yours is, I understand what Jesus and the apostle Paul said and meant, and you are as Peter said, in,
2 Peter 3:15-16…….”AND account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our “beloved brother” Paul also according to the “WISDOM” given unto him, has written unto you. As also in “All” his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are “UNLEARNED” AND “UNSTABLE” wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own “DESTRUCTION”.
DT, you are going the way of Cain and run greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and will certainly parish in the gainsaying of Core, unless you repent. IMO
peace and love to you and yours DT………gene
More good news= No more fear, hate, cheating on a mate, stealing, lying, greed, idolatry, the motive of every mortal will be out of love not for profit.
@Gene,
DT you said, “Can you explain how your faith/belief system is the right one and has ALL the correct understandings of Paul? What makes your faith so special?”
The difference between my Faith and yours is, I understand what Jesus and the apostle Paul said and meant,
To single me out was not what was asked as I prefaced the question with few religions agree with each other on Paul’s writings. For me, I completely reject what he writes as he’s an impostor. Again, how is your belief the better or correct one for understanding the writings of Paul when compared to other religions? After all, you argue with Proclaimer, Carmel, Berean, and others who have come and gone, claiming what you believe is more right than what they believe is truth.
Support what you believe; don’t say what you know, say how you know it by backing up your belief with scripture. I gave you four passages where Paul speaks against G-d’s commands and included a command to honor the elderly and your response was silence. I provided the passage where Paul flat out contradicts what the Jesus taught concerning the “law” and you give no response. You even admit, thru Peter, Paul teaches in a difficult manner; if G-d was speaking thru Paul it wouldn’t be difficult to understand as G-d speaks in a clear, easily understandable manner that eliminates all confusion.
I can safely say you still haven’t verified any passages Paul “quotes” from the Tanakh since you continue to defend him. In the following Paul take two quotes from the Tanakh and incorporates them into his statement:
Gal 3:6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
it was reckoned to him as righteousness is quoted from Gen 15:6
All the nations will be blessed in you is quoted from Gen 12:3
Look up these passages in the Tanakh and explain how or if Paul is using them in their original context. I wait with baited breath…
DT……I quoted you the scriptures that show “how I know it”. But you reject those scriptures, so there is no way you will agree with anything I or anyone else shows you from the scriptures. You are your own “religion”. accepting your own self drawn conclusions. When you reject the very scriptures we present to you every time we present them.
Well we will see how that all come out , won’t we?.
peace and love to you and yours DT………..gene
Gene, a typical response of someone who hasn’t a clue why they believe what they believe…the response of avoidance and then accusing me of the very acts you commit (will you ever directly answer my questions??).
You accuse me of having my “own religion”, yet I have told you the path I would most closely identify is the oldest faith on the planet…Noahide (still learning, but know it’s G-d centered unlike Paul centric christianity). You on the other hand refuse to say what faith you most closely identify (because you do identify with something, quit lying to yourself); what are you afraid of, someone looking into it? To say you don’t identify with a particular faith, would by your accusations mean you’ve created your own religion. Look into Noahide, the faith of Noah, Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, et al before G-d spoke to the nation of Israel at Mt. Sinai.
you reject the very scriptures we present to you every time we present them
I can’t reject something you haven’t presented first. Rarely do you reference scripture and when you do, I ask follow up questions that YOU refuse to answer; explain further what you believe. What you’re doing is parroting what you have been told is truth.
You will notice the only thing you addressed from my last post is really a none issue, it was a simple statement to support what you believe with scripture and didn’t need a defensive response. Why did you ignore the rest of it?
Still waiting for a response to respecting the elderly; it’s one of the commands given by G-d thru Moses. This is a positive command and would say it’s a sin to not follow this one, verses when Paul says the “law” was to point out sin. What say you, is respecting the elderly a sin or not using Paul’s “teachings”?
Once again I have proved to you with your NT scripture Paul is a fraud and you don’t have any idea what to do as he speaks against what the Jesus taught and is against G-d. Paul is an impostor…prove me wrong!
PS.
I didn’t expect you to look up, confirm, and give your thoughts on the Galatians passage. What are you afraid of, change? There is freedom in G-d you will never know, until you do.
Explain why G-d would “test” the faith of the people after spending a 1000 years in G-d’s presence; why would HE need to “test” the people again to see if they “truly” love HIM. Do these people sudden not know who G-d is and could be swayed from HIM? This makes no sense! Why do you believe G-d hates HIS creation?
There are tares and wheat. The tares are the children of the evil one and the wheat are the children of God. During the Millenial Reign, the evil one is restrained, so I guess that demonic temptation is not forthcoming, only one’s own flesh.
At the end, the evil one is released to harvest the tares that may not be obvious during the restraint of the evil one. This final purge leads to the children of God shining in the kingdom of light for all eternity where there is no darkness, wickedness, sin, and death.
Sin and death is overcome at this point onward. The rebellion against God will end at this point and the testimony of rebelling against God is recorded and probably not repeated as the lessons have been learned.
There are tares and wheat. The tares are the children of the evil one and the wheat are the children of God. During the Millenial Reign, the evil one is restrained, so I guess that demonic temptation is not forthcoming, only one’s own flesh.
At the end, the evil one is released to harvest the tares that may not be obvious during the restraint of the evil one. This final purge leads to the children of God shining in the kingdom of light for all eternity where there is no darkness, wickedness, sin, and death.
So we are speaking of Matt 13:24-30; did you continue reading on for the Jesus’ explanation in verses 36-43? Quick recap, the sower is him, the Jesus; the field is the world; the seeds are the “sons of the kingdom”; the tares are the “sons of the devil”; the harvest is at the “end of the age” (what “age”, when the Jesus returns to defeat the devil – tribulation, at the end of the “millennial reign”, or at the final judgement? Pick one, the explanation seems a little vague and leaves it up to the interpreter to determine.); the reapers are the angels; at the “end of the age”, the angels will separate those cast into the fire from those who will enter the Jesus’ kingdom (where’s G-d in this? Thought the Jesus was proclaim the “coming of the kingdom of G-d” not his kingdom); at this “gathering” ALL stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness will be cast into the fire. From the words of the Jesus I read about a judgment when he returns and nothing of an after “millennial reign judgment” or a “white throne” judgment.
Since ALL stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness are gone after the Jesus returns, who will sin after this supposed “millennial reign”, all “sin” will be gone. Who after being in G-d’s presence for 1000 years will suddenly turn their back on HIM? To say one’s own flesh will cause one to fall back into sin after a 1000 years would mean sin was still present and the Jesus lied; those who are gathered into his kingdom won’t be shining as the sun after all as they can once again be “tempted” and revert back into sin. You also need to explain Gen 4:7 “If you do well, won’t it be lifted up? If you don’t do well, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.” G-d says we have are to rule over sin; not that is rules us.
In nothing you wrote did you support any of your belief with scripture. Don’t say what you know, say HOW you know it; back up your belief with scripture.
I think the point you are trying to make is this, so I will answer according to that.
You’re arguing that if Jesus’ return truly eradicates all sin and lawlessness, the notion of a later rebellion (e.g., post-millennial reign) contradicts this promise. You suggest that such an idea implies Jesus’ kingdom is imperfect or that his followers could fall into sin again.
So my answer is as follows:
There is a process. When promises are made, they are often not fulfilled the next day in one swoop. It can take thousands of years as a thousand years is like a day to God. Just because something is partway through the process, doesn’t discard it from not ever being fulfilled. This is really easy to understand.
Fulfilment of the overcoming of sin and death is certainly evident in the new earth where there is no death.
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
It’s hard to no for sure, but the Bible seems to imply that there will be death during the Millenial Reign.
“No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.”
So the promise is not fulfilled because of what you say. Your timing is out.
You’re arguing that if Jesus’ return truly eradicates all sin and lawlessness, the notion of a later rebellion (e.g., post-millennial reign) contradicts this promise. You suggest that such an idea implies Jesus’ kingdom is imperfect or that his followers could fall into sin again.
What I’m pointing out are the words of the Jesus and how what christians believe today doesn’t align with what he said. You brought up the Matt 13 passage and said it corresponded to the “millennial reign.” I’m asking you to justify the point; to prove your presumption with scripture so we are on a level playing field. Don’t say what you know, say HOW you know it; back up your belief with scripture.
There is a process. When promises are made, they are often not fulfilled the next day in one swoop. It can take thousands of years as a thousand years is like a day to God. Just because something is partway through the process, doesn’t discard it from not ever being fulfilled.
You continue on saying with G-d there’s a “process” and it may take years to fulfill; please give me an example and NOT a blanket statement. As I read the Tanakh I agree there is a “process” of sorts and it begins with G-d’s warnings, followed by a punishment. However, there’s a thread throughout that speaks of an age of peace for ALL G-d’s creation (not some chosen few) and this obviously hasn’t been fulfilled. This age of peace doesn’t happen until the true Messiah comes (none have explained how the Jesus is the messiah when he isn’t a biological descendant of David – the spirit came upon Mary -never been with a man- and she conceived).
Fulfillment of the overcoming of sin and death is certainly evident in the new earth where there is no death.
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Rev 21:1-4)
It’s hard to no for sure, but the Bible seems to imply that there will be death during the Millennial Reign.
“No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.” (Isa 65:20)
On the surface is seems we have contradictory statements where in Revelation it states there will be NO deaths and in Isaiah there is death. Whom are we to believe a prophet of G-d or a disciple of the Jesus? Unfortunately, neither of these passages are related when read in the context they are written. The Isaiah 65:20 passage must be read in context, begin reading verse 17 thru 25 to understand. After reading this passage and you still believe they are related, explain how they are.
Onto the Rev 21:1-4 passage, upon further study we end up with a spliced together, copy and pasted mess of multiple verses taken out of there original context to create the Revelation passage…this is truth!??!
The following verses from the Tanakh are what have been used to support/create the Revelation passage:
Isa 65:17
Isa 66:22
Isa 34:4
Isa 52:1
Isa 61:10
Lev 26:11-12
Eze 37:27
Isa 25:8
Isa 35:10
Isa 51:11
Isa 65:19
If you dared to study and look up each of the passages, what did you find? Was the writer of Revelation using these references in their original context or is there a level of deceit? Remember, the positive of Revelation is for those who believe in the Jesus and the negative is for those who don’t.
Not all that believe in Jesus are doing his Fathers will( Matt 7:21-23)– 99% of all the religions claiming to serve Jesus do not even come close. They are lead by these-2Cor 11:12-15)- they fail both Jesus and their flock. Its not very hard to see who is who by a single teaching from Jesus= Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God= OT-NT- study never stops. The teachers who have Jesus, without fail teach-OT-NT= EVERY utterance from God to their flock-it never stops.
If ones teacher is not doing just that–RUN FROM THEM.
Yes, only you are responsible for your relationship with God. No denomination, leader of a denomination, or doctrinal beliefs will save you.
Too many belong to denominations / cults and think they are saved and/or right because they are part of the supposedly only true flock. This blindness is a human condition of the flesh as every man is right in his own eyes. You will see this in science, politics, and many other fields of human endeavour.
I don’t see the problem you are talking about.
The tares and the wheat and the dividing of them is a process.
It logically ends with the new earth as there is no longer any death.
This process takes thousands of years by the look of it.
A day to God is like a thousand years.
I think you are looking for things that I never said or implied.
I don’t see the problem you are talking about.
So you didn’t verify anything…gotcha! Keep smashing that “I Believe Button”!
The tares and the wheat and the dividing of them is a process.
EXCEPT what does Matt 13:39 say…“The harvest is the end of the age.” The “end of the age” isn’t a millennia long period; it punctual, like a thief in the night. Meaning it happens in one moment. When is this “end of the age”?
A day to God is like a thousand years.
What does this mean to you? Christianity has this weird understanding of meaning everything in G-d’s timing. When it simply states G-d isn’t bound by time…HE created it. Can a creator be subject to the created?
I think you are looking for things that I never said or implied.
I’m looking for you to support what you believe thru the process of conversation by answering questions. Begin supporting what you believe! You apparently didn’t read Isa 65:17-25; if you had, you would realize G-d was speaking to the Jewish people and has NOTHING to do with “christians”, let alone a future time when the “new heaven and earth” is created for this true believer of the Jesus as Revelation claims. If you would have looked up the passages listed that make up the Revelation 21:1-4, you would have seen every reference was taken out of context and the Revelation passage was cobbled together. When will anyone start verifying what they have been told is truth? When will the christian begin studying their own scripture? When it says “as it is written”, look it up; verify what is being said and see if it aligns with the original text. I don’t understand why people fear the verification process…is it fear of what will be found?
Why am i am blacklisted by one of you? This is my thread, thus whomever blacklisted me please leave it.
The only one who can “blacklist” you is the owner of the website…there isn’t an option for a “participant” to block anyone from posting. If blocking was available, it would have been done to me over a year ago.
Try deleting everything in the posting and repost; refresh the page; last resort, clear your internet cache.
EXCEPT what does Matt 13:39 say…“The harvest is the end of the age.” The “end of the age” isn’t a millennia long period; it punctual, like a thief in the night. Meaning it happens in one moment. When is this “end of the age”?
A good question and one I haven’t really thought about.
When reading the whole Bible, you get the sense that after the darkness is a time when things are not perfect, but near perfect at least compared to the darkness and tribulations. And at the time of the new earth, all darkness and sin is forever gone.
Why is there this intermediate period called the Millenium instead of just the new earth. Here are some suggestions that come to mind:
- Satan is released briefly to deceive the nations once more. This could suggests that, despite the earlier separation of the wheat and tares, individuals born during the Millennium still retain the capacity to rebel.
- During the Millennium, transformed believers reign with Christ (Revelation 20:4–6), but it seems that earth may also be populated by natural humans who survived the tribulation and their descendants. These descendants may remain susceptible to sin, as evidenced by their willingness to follow Satan’s deception at the end of the Millennium.
- The ultimate separation of the wheat and tares occurs at the Great White Throne judgment (Revelation 20:11–15), where all remaining humans are judged according to their deeds. This shows that separation is a process and not one immediate moment, but unfolds progressively, with the final resolution only achieved after Satan’s rebellion is completely defeated.
Further, perhaps the Millenium is a reflection of the creation days where God rested on the 7th day, thus this final chapter of this world has a special blessing, but it is still part of this age? If the Millenium is a different age in itself, then 1000 years is not that long for an age, but that itself could be symbolic.
Just speculation on my behalf, but we are given dots and while we can logically connect them, this is still just a guess as we really do not know the exact details till after they have happened. After all, not even Jesus Christ knew the day and hour.
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