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Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 07 2010,13:58) This is a powerful text for Yeshua's deity. I remember using it in a discussion with a unitarian who held that Christ was a the culmination of a sucession of prophets. He was the greatest of them though still merely a man. But Hebrews 3:1-6 vaporises that idea. The contrast between Moses and Yeshua could not be more emphatic. According to the Hebrew's writer Yeshua is as equivalent to Moses as a builder is to a house. And the builder of all things is…… God.
Yes he existed in the form of God and emptied himself and became a man and then returned to the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun.No Trinity needed to explain it because the form of God doesn't make one YHWH, just as the form of man doesn't make one Adam, rather 'adam'.
If Trinitarians understood the difference between nature and identity, they wouldn't be Trinitarians.
Quote I think they do understand the difference, which is why they are trinitarians…..
That is so funny I almost posted a reply… something along the lines of:”Why only 'think they do'?”T8,
WJ knows the difference. He is learning the truth – remember – I AM HIM!!
The problem is that he is still “Kicking against the proverbial…!”
– He is struggling within himself saying “How could I have been so wrong for so long?” and also against the embarrassment.
But he has Jack
on his back
who he daren't give the sack
cos it would means loads of flack.
So he just tries to hack
his way back
but he's lost the old knack-
and-tact
of his unscriptural vernac!
and is trying to pack
the cracks
of that which he lacks
and hope that it stacks
Hey WJ – Chillax!!
Relax!!
Accept the facts –
and take it to the MaxSlam-dunk and outa-here…!
Hi WJ,
Unless the lord builds the house the labourers work in vain.
Until the light of the Spirit breaks through we can achieve nothingQuote (JustAskin @ June 06 2010,19:07) WJ, Your desire to discredit and cause confusion has distorted your noodle brain.
There are several things going on in what I write and you have deliberately distorted what i wrote because it showed Jack to be wrong.
You laughed at me thinking it was ME that was wrong and now you see that you were wrong you are wishywashying trying to muddy the waters and cover your ignorance.
How can I distort what you said when I quote you verbatim as saying Jesus is the builder and then saying God (the Father) is the builder?
Jack is right and you are wrong!
WJ
WJ,
I really and truly feel sorry for you – You used to be a good adversary – now you just a joker…goodbye!
Quote (t8 @ June 06 2010,22:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2010,15:52) Quote (t8 @ June 05 2010,19:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2010,08:47) NH Does that mean you will throw that verse out like Matt 28:19?
WJ
No, it means that you study the whole word and put verses into context of truth as it is presented in scripture.We know overwhelmingly that there is one God and Paul teaches us that there is one God the Father, and we know that the only true God sent Jesus.
It is pointless to try and change the truth of God to a lie WJ and wise men do well to avoid your doctrine.
t8You say this but it seems the only scripture you know is 1 Cor 8:6 and you quote that in a biased way unless you believe the Father is not also the “One Lord”.
WJ
WJ, you just demonstrate your ignorance about LORD, Lord, and lord.Just as there is one English word 'love' that translates to many Greek words, LORD, Lord, and lord is how translators differentiate the word. You seem to be unable to know this and think one word means the same for all.
You need to dig deeper if you are to be a serious student and teacher of God's word.
T8You call me ignorant, but the scriptures say we have “One Lord” not many LORDs, Lords, or lords!
Do you give your “Landlord” the same honor and devotion as you give God?
Now tell me in what way do you give Jesus less devotion and honor than the Father?
In what sense is Jesus less “Lord” than the Father?
There were no capital “L” in scriptures.
The words “Only and One” do not seem to mean anything to you guys.
We have only “One God” but there are many Gods, and we have only “One Lord” but there are many Lords, you say!
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny “Jesus Christ our ONLY Sovereign and Lord. Though you already know all this, “I want to remind you that the Lord* delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe“. Jude 1:4, 5
Footnote:
* Some early manuscripts JesusDo you see it t8? “ONLY Sovereign and Lord“, and who was it that delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe?
And you call me ignorant? Ad hominems is all you know when it is obvious that you are wrong!
Jude was addressing the heritics that were already denying the Lord that bought them!
WJ
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 06 2010,22:39) I think they do understand the difference, which is why they are trinitarians…..
Hi PaulExactly!
Quote (JustAskin @ June 07 2010,17:36) WJ, I really and truly feel sorry for you – You used to be a good adversary – now you just a joker…goodbye!
JAPlease don't run like that. You are changing your usual method of response and I am worried.
You are supposed to post more of your ad hominems and puked up diatribe.
I need you JA to continue to be the enemy of the truth so that the light of the Glorious Gospel can expose the darkness!
BTW, do you ever smile?
WJ
WorshippingJesus said to JA:
Quote So your analogy is the builder “IS Jesus” but then you say the Father is the Owner. God built the house, but wait, Jesus is the builder, Hello! Does it ring a bell yet?
Keith,I have pointed out to JA that Jesus is both the Builder and the Owner in the text but he has his head buried in the sand:
3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Verse 3 says that Christ is counted worthy of more glory than Moses “inasmuch as the builder of the house is counted worthy of more glory than the house.” Then verse 6 CLEARLY and UNDENIABLY says that Christ is the OWNER, “but Christ as Son over His own house, whose house we are….”
It's CLEAR! Christ is both the Builder and the Owner. Read it and weep JA!
This also supports what I have repeatedly said here that in the Hebrew culture the fully investitured Son takes over the family in the place of the Father. Note that Christ is Son while Moses is servant. This goes along with Paul who said that the son differs nothing from a servant as long as he is a child. But at the appointed time of the Father the son is no longer a servant but is the fully investitured heir.
Kangaroo Jack
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,18:20) Hi WJ,
There is no gospel that speaks of a trinity.
Whom do you serve?
NHWell at least I can always count on you!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2010,10:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,18:20) Hi WJ,
There is no gospel that speaks of a trinity.
Whom do you serve?
NHWell at least I can always count on you!
WJ
Keith,We posted nearly at the same time. See my post above in case you missed it.
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 07 2010,18:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2010,10:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,18:20) Hi WJ,
There is no gospel that speaks of a trinity.
Whom do you serve?
NHWell at least I can always count on you!
WJ
Keith,We posted nearly at the same time. See my post above in case you missed it.
Jack
JackGood post! Scriptural and clearly defined!
Irrefutable truth!
Keith
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2010,10:30) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 07 2010,18:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2010,10:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,18:20) Hi WJ,
There is no gospel that speaks of a trinity.
Whom do you serve?
NHWell at least I can always count on you!
WJ
Keith,We posted nearly at the same time. See my post above in case you missed it.
Jack
JackGood post! Scriptural and clearly defined!
Irrefutable truth!
Keith
Keith,Okay so we have Jude 4 which in an anti-trinitarian translation (NWT) says that Christ is our “ONLY OWNER AND LORD” (Vs. 4). And we have Hebrews 3:1-6 which says that Christ is the builder of the house and that the House is HIS OWN (vs. 6).
Why does JA disobey?
Jack
Is. 1:18 said:
Quote This is a powerful text for Yeshua's deity. I remember using it in a discussion with a unitarian who held that Christ was a the culmination of a sucession of prophets. He was the greatest of them though still merely a man. But Hebrews 3:1-6 vaporises that idea. The contrast between Moses and Yeshua could not be more emphatic. According to the Hebrew's writer Yeshua is as equivalent to Moses as a builder is to a house. And the builder of all things is…… God.
Anti-trinitarianism takes a beating.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi KJ,
Why do you get so much joy in turning scripture against itself?
It is your ignorance that gets you confused, not the bible.Actually, if believing in the trinity requires treating ones a chattle, then my heart chose wisely to avoid such teachings.
Thinking about such matters has only brought two words for triads ” secular christians' for there is nothing spiritual about them, they cannot speak or gather anything other then proving their god is god.
When all others can be still and know who is God.
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