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Expressions we find in the Bible:
Jehovah God–50 times
the [true] God Jehovah–4 times
Jehovah their God–39 times
Jehovah the [true] God–8 times.
Jehovah is in truth God–1 time
Jehovah is God–1 time
Jehovah is my God–1 time
Jehovah is our God–1 time
Jehovah your God–455 times
Jehovah our God–105 times
Jehovah my God–40 times
Jehovah his God–29 times
Jehovah is a God–7 times
Jehovah the God of–204 times
Jehovah a God–1 timeIf Jehovah is not the God of the Bible, and this idea that he is the God of the Bible is a lie, as asserted, that person may as well not use the Bible to try to prove their claims, because the entire Bible asserts that Jehovah God, our Father, is the “only true God.” (John 17:3)
If this is untrue, none of the Bible can be trusted, and then it becomes meaningless trying to show these contradictions of a God of love vs. a God of judgemnt, etc.
Quote (dcman @ Dec. 20 2007,08:22) Quote (Son of Light @ Dec. 20 2007,07:31) Paul believed the Angel Jehovah gave the Law at Sinai. He knew Jesus was not the son of that Angel. Your bible was put together by Catholics with many interpolations.
Besides your bible contains multiple forms of Christianity in one collection, thats why you can't ever agree on what the NT is actually saying.
Catholic forgeries, Pauline, Gnostic and Ebionite writings all in one collection.
Who gave the Law at Sinai? The God of heaven and all of creation, that's who.
You are obviously a pagan, who worships devils, and knows not our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I tell you the truth, you have not the Spirit of Christ and therefore are none of His.Now as concerning what God said on Sinai…
Exodus 3:14 says:
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.Jesus said in John 8:58:
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.“and again Jesus says in John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.”
Hi dc,
Indeed Christ Jesus was before Abraham.
He is the monogenes Son of God.Are you suggesting he was saying implicitly he is also His Father God??
hmmm
If God is Love:
1 John 4
8 But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
And Love is defined here:
1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
Then Jehovah is NOT the MOST HIGH God.
God is patient and long-suffering.
He has put up with man including accusations like you have just made for thousands of years.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2007,11:16) God is patient and long-suffering. He has put up with man including accusations like you have just made for thousands of years.
He even had to put up with Jesus accusations.Jesus was pretty blunt.
John 8
31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33They answered him, “We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”34Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.[c]”
39″Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham's children,” said Jesus, “then you would[d] do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”The Children of the Devil
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
This is the BIGGEST CATHOLIC secret in history. They made the angel Jehovah the Lord of Light and Father of Christ.
Open your eyes and you will see what your bibles (though horribly interpolated and edited) the truth of what I am saying. Read the histories of the Nazorene Essenes, Ebionites and the Gnostics.
You know in your hearts Jehovah in the old testament did horrible horrible things. Are these things the acts of the God of Love?
Numbers 31
17″ Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately.
18″But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.
Kill all the Children except the female virgins so you can rape them.
Seriously, Jehovah was very bad in the Old Testament. But, out of Faith and Fear you are “hedgin your Bet” just in case! And are trying to make excuses for his behavior.
You need set Free!!!!
Jesus came to reveal the God of Light and the God of Love!
In him is no evil and no darkness!!!!
Hear Jehovah describe himself:
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD [Jehovah / Samael] do all these things.
Yet hear James:
James 1:
16Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Hi SOL,
It is folly to believe you can judge God by your moral standards.
It is wiser to fear God.
That is the beginning of wisdom.This will be my last post in this thread because this is the “Believers Place” or some such so I will respect that, but I wanted to put an end to the misinformation that SOL is bringing.
Ebionites were early Christians who adhered to Torah, so throw out the lie about them not worshiping YHVH G-d.
Nazarenes were similar but they believed in the divinity of Jesus and the virgin birth. They too believed in Torah observance.
Essenes were a Judaic sect that were based mostly around Qumran. There were basically 3 sects in and around the times of Jesus: Pharisees, Saducees, and Essenes. It is speculated that John the Baptist may have been an Essene although his geographic location was not right for it.
All three of these believed in and worshiped YHVH.
What SOL is bringing forward is from gnosticism, and even some of the early church fathers warned against these people. In particular, Iraneus wrote much against the gnostic teaching of the time.
Just wanted to clear up the obvious lack of research that SOL is showing.
Quote (Son of Light @ Dec. 20 2007,10:31) If God is Love: 1 John 4
8 But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
And Love is defined here:
1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
Then Jehovah is NOT the MOST HIGH God.
Since the Bible tells us in no uncertain terms (about 60 times, mostly in Psalms) that Jehovah is the Most High God, your reasoning must be false.Perhaps this is your error:
Jehovah is patient and kind, but because he is also a God of Justice, there is a limit to his patients and he acts in behalf of his faithful servants.
Love is not selfish greedy jealousy. True. Neither is God. God's jealousy is righteous, and not really jealousy in the way that word is usually used.I think your understanding of “love” is faulty. Is a judge loving if he condemns a murderer to death? Well, he is loving to the ones who don't have to be scared of having the murderer living on the streets. He balances his love with justice. The man knew the rules. He willingly rejected them. The man can't say it's “not loving” to be put to death. It is loving to the masses and it is justice for them and him.
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,11:56) This will be my last post in this thread because this is the “Believers Place” or some such so I will respect that, but I wanted to put an end to the misinformation that SOL is bringing. Ebionites were early Christians who adhered to Torah, so throw out the lie about them not worshiping YHVH G-d.
Nazarenes were similar but they believed in the divinity of Jesus and the virgin birth. They too believed in Torah observance.
Essenes were a Judaic sect that were based mostly around Qumran. There were basically 3 sects in and around the times of Jesus: Pharisees, Saducees, and Essenes. It is speculated that John the Baptist may have been an Essene although his geographic location was not right for it.
All three of these believed in and worshiped YHVH.
What SOL is bringing forward is from gnosticism, and even some of the early church fathers warned against these people. In particular, Iraneus wrote much against the gnostic teaching of the time.
Just wanted to clear up the obvious lack of research that SOL is showing.
Hi Tow,
Do you believe in the true prophet, John the Baptist?
He testified about Jesus the Christ.Jn 1
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
..
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
19And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
24And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
35Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
Perhaps you will hear him?
Perhaps not.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 20 2007,11:56) This will be my last post in this thread because this is the “Believers Place” or some such so I will respect that, but I wanted to put an end to the misinformation that SOL is bringing. Ebionites were early Christians who adhered to Torah, so throw out the lie about them not worshiping YHVH G-d.
Nazarenes were similar but they believed in the divinity of Jesus and the virgin birth. They too believed in Torah observance.
Essenes were a Judaic sect that were based mostly around Qumran. There were basically 3 sects in and around the times of Jesus: Pharisees, Saducees, and Essenes. It is speculated that John the Baptist may have been an Essene although his geographic location was not right for it.
All three of these believed in and worshiped YHVH.
What SOL is bringing forward is from gnosticism, and even some of the early church fathers warned against these people. In particular, Iraneus wrote much against the gnostic teaching of the time.
Just wanted to clear up the obvious lack of research that SOL is showing.
The ancient historian Josephus tells us that there were 3 sects of Judaism at the time of Christ:“For there are three philosophical sects among the Jews. The followers of the first of whom are the Pharisees; of the second the Sadducees, and the third sect, who pretends to a severer discipline, are called Essenes.” (Wars of the Jews by Josephus)
Josephus further elaborates on this third Essene Philosophy by saying that it is divided into two separate Orders:“Moreover, there is another Order of Essenes (Nazarean?) who agree with the rest as to their way of living and customs and laws but differ from them in the point of marriage.” (Wars of the Jews by Josephus)
The ancient Christian historian Epiphanius, in his Panarion, speaks in more detail of the Jewish sects, saying that there are seven in all:Sadducees, Scribes, Pharisees, Hemerobaptists, Ossaeans, Nazarean and Herodians.” (Panarion 1:19)
Epiphanius links the Hemerobaptists with the Scribes and Pharisees and the Ossaeans (Essenes) with the Nazarean. From this information we may deduce that the two Essene branches, spoken of by Josephus, were the Ossaeans and Nazarean. The Ossaeans encouraging celibacy and the Nazareans encouraging marriage. The Nazarean are the northern branch of Essenes based on Mount Carmel (with a smaller Temple in the Essene Quarter of Jerusalem). As mentioned earlier, it was to this northern Essene group that the promises were made:“He (Messiah) shall be called a Nasorean.” (Matthew 2:23)
Epiphanius goes on to say:“The Nazarean – they were jews by nationality – originally from Gileaditis (where the early followers of Yeshua fled after the martyrdom of James the Lord's brother), Bashanitis and the Transjordon . . .They acknowledged Moses and believed that he had received laws – not this law, however, but some other. And so, they were jews who kept all the Jewish observances, but they would not offer sacrifice or eat meat. They considered it unlawful to eat meat or make sacrifices with it. They claim that these Books are fictions, and that none of these customs were instituted by the fathers. This was the difference between the Nazarean and the others. . . (Panarion 1:18)
After this (Nazarean) sect in turn comes another closely connected with them, called the Ossaeanes. These are jews like the former . . . originally came from Nabataea, Ituraea (Damascus, where the Teacher of Righteousness took those spoken of in the Damascus Covenant), Moabitis and Arielis, the lands beyond the basin of what sacred scripture called the Salt Sea. . . Though it is different from the other six of these seven sects, it causes schism only by forbidding the books of Moses like the Nazarean. (Panarion 1:19)
The Ossaeans seem to have produced at least one prophetic figure accepted by both the Ossaeans and the Nazarean. This was Elxai who may have given his name to the ancient Elkasite sect. Epiphanius is our source on this Ossaean prophet named Elxai, who is said to have insisted on matrimony and introduced into their oaths and worship the substances of salt, water, earth, bread, heaven, aether and wind; with 7 witnesses: sky, water, holy spirits, angels of prayer, the olive, salt and earth. “(Similar substances play a strong role in the Essene Gospel of Peace and in the Rba Ginza, the book of rituals used by the modern Nazarean / Mandeaen sect of southern Iran who claim to be direct descendants of John the Baptist and the Nazareans.)“The man called Elxai joined them later, in the reign of the emperor Trajan, after the Savior's incarnation . . . He wrote a book by prophecy. . . By designating Salt, Water, Earth, Bread, Heaven Aether, and Wind as objects for them to swear by in worship. But again he designates seven other witnesses. . . Sky, Water, Holy Spirits, Angels of Prayer, the Olive, Salt and the Earth. He has no use for celibacy, detests continence and insists on matrimony. . . he confesses Christ by name . . He bans burnt offerings and sacrifices, as something foreign to God and never offered to Him on the authority of the fathers and Law . . . he rejects the Jewish custom of eating meat and the rest, and the altar. . . ”
Four sects. . . have made use of him (Elxai). Of those that came after him, Ebionites and Nazoraeans. Of those that came before his time and during it, the Osseaens and the Nazarean.” (Panarion 1:19)In the Tanakh, the holy Hebrew bible, ha-Satan (=the Satan) is an angel whom God uses to test man for various reasons usually dealing with his level of piety. The Satan is good, known as the figure in the book of Job who challenged the integrity of Job. In Judaism ha-Satan is the angel-accuser, a prosecuting attorney or adversary, the spiritual force alias the evil inclination, and he is totally under the command and control of God, as any other angel is. Therefore ha-Satan is a title rather than a name of an angel. This concept of Satan is not accepted by the Christian faiths, as they came to the conclusion that ha-Satan had rebelled against God, however this conclusion is unsupported in holy Hebrew scripture. In Jewish faith and tradition, free, even 'rebellious' will, the freedom of choice, is only a concept that relates to man, not to angels. And while Ha-Shem (=God) is a holy 'light', there can only be 'light', as there is no place or space, where God is not. It is said God is transcendental. Judaism has no concept of an 'unholy darkness' which is an opposing force or even an embodiment of evil.
Satan is part of the YHVH elohim or Jehovah gods. Satan is not the name of any particular angel. It is a term meaning adversary. All the “little” satans (adversaries) work for the Angel Jehovah / Samael, who is himself our great adversary.
Jesus came to nail his laws to the cross and set us free from ALL principalities and powers, including those hovering over the Jews.
So, I'm thinking your basic message is this:
Quote Jehovah the angel who usurped the throne of the Most High God and declared himself to be the “true God”. –page 1
and
Quote The Satan is good, –page 4
ISAIAH 5:20
“Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!”I'm starting to think that the title of this topic and the picture you chose to represent yourself are less than subtle.
Quote (david @ Dec. 20 2007,17:47) So, I'm thinking your basic message is this: Quote Jehovah the angel who usurped the throne of the Most High God and declared himself to be the “true God”. –page 1
and
Quote The Satan is good, –page 4
ISAIAH 5:20
“Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!”I'm starting to think that the title of this topic and the picture you chose to represent yourself are less than subtle.
ISAIAH 5:20
“Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!”I am trying to hammer home the very verse you quoted. You look at the actions of Jehovah and out of “fear” and “just in case” you call his evil actions good. When in any other context you would call his actions evil. Your heart knows this.
Read what Jesus says. I believe the Catholic church mutilated the bible but they didn't whipe out enough of the truth for you to see the vast difference between the God of Love and Jehovah.
Satan is not good. It is a “title” sometimes held by simple “unclean” spirits UNDER Jehovah and in the New Testament used for Jehovah himself and all other principalities and powers who are our “adversaries”.
In the garden the snake was the good guy. The snake told the truth.
The serpent was the embodiment of “wisdom” the holy spirit working to set mankind free from ignornant imprisonment.
Jehovah said they would die “the very day” they ate of the fruit.
The serpent said they would have their eyes opened and be like gods.
The Jehovah gods said “man has became like one of us.”
The Jehovah gods kicked them out of the garden so that they could then not also eat from the tree of life and live forever. ADAM AND EVE WERE NOT IMMORTAL. They were not created immortal. They were kicked out of the garden before they could eat of the tree of life.
In the babylonian creation myth the serpent in the story is also the “good guy”. It is the same story as found in the bible, except this story is very clear on who the good guy is.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,05:27) Hi SOL,
So satan is your God and our God is evil?
Thanks.
nuff said.
No my God is the Father of Christ not the angel who delivered the law and is the leader of the satans.HI MS,
Was the Angels of God not serving God when they brought the Law?
Acts 7:53
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Heb2
1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.2For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Colossians 2
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in( promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.The verses above demonstrate these points:
That two sources exist for the Law. Human tradition and Element Spirits (angelic prinicipalities)
The Jewish Law specifically is being spoken of concerning New Moons and Sabbaths.
Those who follow these things are engaging in the worship of Angels.
The Angels are the ones who gave the Law at Sinai.
The angels are the Jehovah elohim or the Yahweh gods.
Matthew 10
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 20 2007,14:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,05:27) Hi SOL,
So satan is your God and our God is evil?
Thanks.
nuff said.
No my God is the Father of Christ not the angel who delivered the law and is the leader of the satans.
Sorry to interrupt this thread but I kinda figured MS and SOL was the same person.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 22 2007,02:10) Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 20 2007,14:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,05:27) Hi SOL,
So satan is your God and our God is evil?
Thanks.
nuff said.
No my God is the Father of Christ not the angel who delivered the law and is the leader of the satans.
Sorry to interrupt this thread but I kinda figured MS and SOL was the same person.
Yes and It took me along time to finally figure this out.
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