- This topic is empty.
- Posts
>To All<
May be able to comprehend with all saints what is
the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;” (Eph 3:18)
“And the [Holycity(117)] lieth foursquare” (Rev 21:16)1. Breath
2. Length
3. Depth
4. HeightGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGuys, most of the first page is awesome. I love it. All the hallmarks of good fruit. Humility, honesty, truth.
But then others joined in with their bias, false teaching, and self-glory in their own understanding.Still not spoiled however, because all of us are tested. Stay true to the end and we get the crown of life.
Do not fall for false apostles who introduce false doctrine that draws you away from simplicity in Christ. Watch out for false prophets who preach that which is not given by God and is not true. Watch out for them, they will try and draw you away from your innocent faith in God. Our brother Paul warned us about these millennial ago. They only want to use you as a tool for their egos so that they can feel good about themselves and puff themselves up in pride in their own understanding.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 25 2012,08:23) Thanks William for your explanation although I don' think it is trinitarian. It sounds more like modalism to me but I could be wrong. Here is a copy of the Nicene Creed that unites the vast majority of the churches that consider themselves Christian. I was wondering if you would say if you agree with this or not. If not, would you please bold out the parts that you don't agree with?
I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God,
begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost
of the Virgin Mary,
and was made man;
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried;
and the third day he rose again
according to the Scriptures,
and ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
and he shall come again, with glory,
to judge both the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Live,
who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
who with the Father and the Son together
is worshiped and glorified;
who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
Kif you believe one of the lies in the creed you have made the truth a lie,
lies always comes rapt in some sort of truth ,so it is more believable right ???YES
“Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth,
the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain,
my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon
the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:” (Deut 32:1-2)“Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.” (Isaiah 28:9)Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 28 2012,05:50) “Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth,
the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain,
my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon
the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:” (Deut 32:1-2)“Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.” (Isaiah 28:9)
this does not mean anything by it self SO COULD YOU BRING THE MEANING OF IT TO LIFE
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 27 2012,22:53) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 28 2012,05:50) “Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth,
the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain,
my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon
the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:” (Deut 32:1-2)“Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.” (Isaiah 28:9)
this does not mean anything by it self SO COULD YOU BRING THE MEANING OF IT TO LIFE
Hi Pierre, those are parables.Mark 4:11-12 Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:
but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing
they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (AndrewAD @ Sep. 27 2012,15:13) The Nicene creed sounds holy and reverent and I've said it many times and nearly knew it by heart at one point,but now I have to ask myself if it's truly scriptural or does it make a tangled web out of God,Jesus and the Bible.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? KJV
This appears like an emphatic statement from the God of the OT,but I've heard preachers quote this then say,but He did become a man.
Is this a true statement from a God who is said to be immutable-one who changes not? who will not alter the word that goes forth from His lips-Ps 89:34
Is there any OT verses that say Jehovah God will become a man?
Clearly the man Jesus,being a Jew and born under the law claimed to believe in the one God of Israel and he said this was the greatest commandment of all Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:Mark 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.
The Jewish scribe called the One God a he-a singular person,and Jesus seems to approve of his theology.When Jesus is questioned about his equality with this God whom he calls Father he says John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
He goes on to tell how that all judgement is committed to him,and how he'll raise the dead but again says John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
The Son can do nothing of himself,I can of mine own self do nothing;is Jesus saying he's totally reliant on his God,that it's God who's given him this great power and authority? or is this simply Jesus speaking from his role as a human son when in reality he's an Almighty God himself and always has been? In a court of law we are told to tell the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help us God.
So did Jesus tell the whole truth to the Jews about his equality with God? or was it only a half truth?or was it true and false at the same time? Saying I can of mine own self do nothing just doesn't seem like something the God who made the universe would or could honestly say.
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.KJV – or from a different manuscript-
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”NASB
This scripture used to really baffle me.Is Jesus just being humble according to his human nature? If Jesus is really God this has got to be the biggest case of false humility the world has ever known.This sounds like something a real human being would say who realizes that as a creature created by God he is entirely dependent on Him and any goodness whatsoever is from His Maker.In this verse it appears Jesus disqualifies himself from being God by saying”why callest thou me or why are you asking me?”There is only One.
According to the doctrine of the trinity God is one in three persons by an unknowable nature,substance or essence.And the nature is not to be confounded or confused with the persons,and these persons are all co-equal,co-eternal by this nature,yet these persons have a rank and order somehow,yet behind this role or mask they wear they are exactly the same by this substance also called the divine ousia or nature.This nature is also called the triune being which they claim is the one true god,while each person is also the one true god in and of themselves.The rule is not to confuse the divine nature with the persons yet they do,by calling the one true god a he or person whenever theologically needed.So there are three persons and one unknowable nature which makes four and when they call the triune god a person then this makes five.Four persons and one nature or three persons with one nature/person.
Is this really the God of the the Bible? or was St Augustine correct when he said he saw the trinity in Plato before he saw it in the scriptures?
If the trinity is true then Jesus is not a true Son and God is not a true Father either;its just an act for us poor souls like the Greek and heathen gods put on plays for men.This all is rather repulsive to me for it makes God a liar in the OT and Jesus a liar in the new.God is not the author of this confusion.
Let God be true and every man a liar.
Andrew………….Good post brother.Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Andrew,
Do you realize that the Son who was God in the beginning with God, emptied Himself and was made lower than the angels and thus would certainly need to be given power and direction from His Father since He emptied Himself? The Son did not come here in His inauguration without emptying Himself first.
God bless!Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 26 2012,10:08) “At that time THE PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION OF GOD NOW THE BEGOTTEN SON, full of joy through THE SPIRITUAL MANIFESTATION OF GOD, said, “I praise you, FATHER, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 1. I NEVER taught that the Father was any kind of manifestation please show me where I said that or remotely indicated it.
Wm,Even in your re-wording, you still have “the physical manifestation of God” praising and praying to Himself throughout the NT. It doesn't make sense to me that God would pray to Himself. Does it make sense to you?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 26 2012,10:08) Scripture teaches that Jesus is a manifestation: I Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh…
The word “God” in 1 Tim 3:16 is a scribal alteration. The oldest mss have “who was manifest in the flesh”, or “which was manifest in the flesh”.This is why you won't see “God was manifest” in any of the more recent English translations……… because, despite the fact that the Trinitarians who have produced these newer translations would dearly love to have “God” in 3:16, they cannot justify it against the internal and external evidence for “who”, or “which”. You can read some lengthy information about it here. (Click on footnote #3 in the NET translation. Also notice that only the two King James Versions have “God” in that verse. The newer versions, which are based on older mss, have “he”, or “Christ”.)
Wm, if Jesus was truly God in the flesh, then he would have done the miracles himself. But Acts 2:22 says that God did the signs and wonders through him. Does it make sense that God Almighty did signs through God Almighty?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,00:10) Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 26 2012,10:08) “At that time THE PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION OF GOD NOW THE BEGOTTEN SON, full of joy through THE SPIRITUAL MANIFESTATION OF GOD, said, “I praise you, FATHER, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 1. I NEVER taught that the Father was any kind of manifestation please show me where I said that or remotely indicated it.
Wm,Even in your re-wording, you still have “the physical manifestation of God” praising and praying to Himself throughout the NT. It doesn't make sense to me that God would pray to Himself. Does it make sense to you?
Why don't we start with your answering my question – I NEVER taught that the Father was any kind of manifestation please show me where I said that or remotely indicated it. As to your question; “Does it make sense to me for Jesus to pray to himself?” Once again where did I say or indicate that, please go back and read what I wrote and you'll see I said nothing of the sorts.Quote Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 26 2012,10:08) Scripture teaches that Jesus is a manifestation: I Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh…
The word “God” in 1 Tim 3:16 is a scribal alteration. The oldest mss have “who was manifest in the flesh”, or “which was manifest in the flesh”.This is why you won't see “God was manifest” in any of the more recent English translations……… because, despite the fact that the Trinitarians who have produced these newer translations would dearly love to have “God” in 3:16, they cannot justify it against the internal and external evidence for “who”, or “which”. You can read some lengthy information about it here. (Click on footnote #3 in the NET translation. Also notice that only the two King James Versions have “God” in that verse. The newer versions, which are based on older mss, have “he”, or “Christ”.)
Wm, if Jesus was truly God in the flesh, then he would have done the miracles himself. But Acts 2:22 says that God did the signs and wonders through him. Does it make sense that God Almighty did signs through God Almighty?
New American Standard Bible Hebrews 2:7 “ YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS A couple of points in this scripture 1) Jesus was not God Almighty during His time on earth. 2) It says God appointed Him over the works of God's hands, if it was God's hands and scripture tells us that Jesus was the one who did it, what does that tell you?One last point, is God a name or title?
Wm
Lightenup,Sep. wrote:Andrew,
Do you realize that the Son who was God in the beginning with God, emptied Himself and was made lower than the angels and thus would certainly need to be given power and direction from His Father since He emptied Himself? The Son did not come here in His inauguration without emptying Himself first.
God bless!
Hi Kathi and God bless you too!
Are you saying God emptied himself of his divinity which makes him God,in order to assume flesh and then forgot he used to be God? So to make the statements he made,and temptations he faced as a man true.
According to the Nicene creed he's God of God and according to trinity dogma-Chalcedonian creed,he's 100% man and 100% God at the same time,aka the hypostatic union.
Do you believe Jesus the human and Jesus the God,or God the Son are the same person?Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,04:43) T,
I believe the creed is free from lies.
Not good enough because some will deceive just as they are deceived.It needs to match up with scripture. Not your own doctrine and version of history.
After all, you can justify anything by setting conditions first. Then everything is seen through this man-made lens. This is how the Trinity Doctrine works. Did you not learn anything from that deception to end up repeating it in your own version of things.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 28 2012,14:44) 2) It says God appointed Him over the works of God's hands, if it was God's hands and scripture tells us that Jesus was the one who did it, what does that tell you?
Did you not read where it says that God created all things through Jesus Christ. Did you not read where it says that God created all things by his Word.What does that say? Well it doesn't say that he is God. It says that he is the agency by which God created all things through.
Likewise, Adam did not create Eve. God did. Adam was the agency by which Eve was created.
The head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, the head of Christ is God.
Jesus is not God, he is the prototype son. He is the Word. He is not the God that he prayed to. God is not a man. And where are we ever taught that God can die.
So read it again. “God appointed him…”. You don't even have to go any further than that really. It is so evident that God and Him are two different identities. Really basic stuff. But the wise of the world do not like childlike faith and childlike and simple interpretations. No they have to make everything complicated so that they feel that they are the only ones who understand and then you have to go to them for knowledge. What arrogance that is.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,08:43) T,
I believe the creed is free from lies.
Kathiso now you are the certified agent ,apostolic that make all of those creed the TRUTH over scriptures
well I know were you stand now ,and not on the side of Gods words of truth,
understand that the fact that you believe does not make it the truth,many believe in lies.
T8,
You're not understanding what I'm advocating, I agree with your scriptural points.I believe the Father is best understood as being like our soul, embodying self, exerting His will over His corporeal extension (the future begotten Son). So just as a human being's body provides our soul with its interface to the world, so the “pre-incarnate” Christ was God's extension to interface with us. The Father exists above His creation as they’re unable to contain Him.
1 Kings 8:27 But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
The pre-incarnate Christ was an extension of the Father interacting with man. Until at the appropriate time when this physical extension was emptied and used to impregnate Mary. From that point on He was totally human,
Col 1:15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creationPhil 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form
Two different identities, then after death He arose in a glorified body, God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church.
Jn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world wasHebrews 1:9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong. So God, your God, has chosen you, giving you more honor and joy than anyone like you.
Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
WmQuote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2012,23:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,04:43) T,
I believe the creed is free from lies.
Not good enough because some will deceive just as they are deceived.It needs to match up with scripture. Not your own doctrine and version of history.
After all, you can justify anything by setting conditions first. Then everything is seen through this man-made lens. This is how the Trinity Doctrine works. Did you not learn anything from that deception to end up repeating it in your own version of things.
Ha, it does match up with scripture. Jesus is the Son of God…that is all over the NT.A literal begotten Son of God would be the very God of very God/the very God begotten of very God…like begets like…the only begotten God. 'Like begets like' is so easy to understand, children have no problem with this, why do some adults on here have problems with this.
Most people on HN see that the Father has sent His only begotten Son and see the only begotten son as 'unlike' His Father. I see 'the only begotten Son' and understand one 'like' His Father. Very God of very God, Light of light, begotten before the ages.
Get to know the literal Son
Like begets like in reference to literal begettals of sons or daughters
Like doesn't beget unlike in reference to literal begettals of sons or daughtersGod the Father literally begat only one Son. All other 'sons' were sons by one or more ways:
being created by the Father through the Son
appointed as sons
adopted as sons by being begotten 'again' as a second birth.Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2012,06:31) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,08:43) T,
I believe the creed is free from lies.
Kathiso now you are the certified agent ,apostolic that make all of those creed the TRUTH over scriptures
well I know were you stand now ,and not on the side of Gods words of truth,
understand that the fact that you believe does not make it the truth,many believe in lies.
The creed is scriptural.Quote (AndrewAD @ Sep. 27 2012,21:55) Lightenup,Sep. wrote:Andrew,
Do you realize that the Son who was God in the beginning with God, emptied Himself and was made lower than the angels and thus would certainly need to be given power and direction from His Father since He emptied Himself? The Son did not come here in His inauguration without emptying Himself first.
God bless!
Hi Kathi and God bless you too!
Are you saying God emptied himself of his divinity which makes him God,in order to assume flesh and then forgot he used to be God? So to make the statements he made,and temptations he faced as a man true.
According to the Nicene creed he's God of God and according to trinity dogma-Chalcedonian creed,he's 100% man and 100% God at the same time,aka the hypostatic union.
Do you believe Jesus the human and Jesus the God,or God the Son are the same person?
Hi AndrewAD,
We aren't told what He emptied Himself of but I don't believe He emptied Himself of His divinity. I have thought that He emptied Himself of the privilege of receiving the glory that comes with His divinity and He may have emptied Himself of His memory of His divinity but got His memory back little by little. I don't know though, that is just what I think is possible. His Father held His memories for a time, maybe. Amnesia is an example of this. Imagine a royal prince being in a different country, getting into some accident resulting in amnesia…this wouldn't make him no longer a royal prince in his own country, but it would hide his memory of being a royal prince in his own country. If he, then, got his memory back little by little, he would eventually remember who he was.Do you understand this? I hope that I said it clearly.
Many blessings, Andrew!
Hi William,
Just to be clear, you said:Quote I believe the Father is best understood as being like our soul, embodying self, exerting His will over His corporeal extension (the future begotten Son). The creed says that He was 'begotten BEFORE the ages.'
You said that you agree with the creed but what you said in the part I quoted seems like you don't believe the Son was begotten BEFORE the ages.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
