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Quote (thethinker @ May 04 2010,01:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2010,13:37) HI TT,
IS GOD UNDER ANY LEGAL REQUIREMENTS?
WHICH LAWS DO YOU APPLY TO HIM, AND BY WHOSE AUTHORITY??
Nick,I have explained this before. God made a covenant to Christ (Galatians 3:17) and a covenant is binding. God cannot renig on His word because He is righteous.
The scriptures are replete with statements which indicate that God must keep His oaths. Is your “god” unrighteous Nick?
thinker
Hi TT,
I do not think you are in a safe enough place to make legal demands on God.One thing I completely fail to understand in this forum:
Why do you QUOTE the whole of my quote just to say that I have learned to copy and pasted. Why not just refer to the post? Anyway, as you wish.
I'm sure you should have picked up by now that Web pages are my bread and butter so removing quoted posts are not an issue – I just think they they point less. and add no value in glutten mode because no one ever reads them – in fact it is a sure way to make sure your posts are NOT read. (Just in case you not got it – I mean COPYING some ones post in entirety – not extracting the essence of your argument)Can anyone else tell me why you do this – is it cos there is a Massive “QUOTE ” button at the the top of the each post and you guys are made look for the easy way.
Ah, TT, I was blinded for a moment.
I see why you dismiss my post now…
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DISPUTE — Ha ha ha ha ha…… Mighty men of God …. TT has nothing to say …. He thought he was going to eat me like he eats cookies and drinks milk!
TT, please present a trinity base break down precisee showing trinity stance against Galations 3-4~ as posted and extrapolated by me – by tomorrow morning: 9:00 am on the dot – with out fail.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2010,07:19) Quote (thethinker @ May 04 2010,01:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2010,13:37) HI TT,
IS GOD UNDER ANY LEGAL REQUIREMENTS?
WHICH LAWS DO YOU APPLY TO HIM, AND BY WHOSE AUTHORITY??
Nick,I have explained this before. God made a covenant to Christ (Galatians 3:17) and a covenant is binding. God cannot renig on His word because He is righteous.
The scriptures are replete with statements which indicate that God must keep His oaths. Is your “god” unrighteous Nick?
thinker
Hi TT,
I do not think you are in a safe enough place to make legal demands on God.
Nick,The scripture says that it is impossible for God to lie. This statement is in the context of His promise keeping (Heb. 6:13-18).
Your god is unrighteous Nick.
thinker
JustAskin said:
Quote I have purposefully gone through every applicable verse and explained , extrapolated, verbosed, clarified, concorded, the meaning of each – and you say “Well done for being able to copy and paste”
No sir! You avoided my points. Your post was incoherent. Jesus is called the “heir of all things.”“God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things“, Heb. 1:1
Christ is heir of “all things.” We are not heirs of “all things.” We are heirs of salvation.
“But to which of the angels has He ever said: “ Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?”
We inherit salvation. We do not inherit “all things” like Jesus. So you took Paul out of context. He said that as sons we have the Spirit of God (Gal. 4:6). He did not say that we own “all things” with Jesus.
You are being a DECEIVER my friend. Paul did not say that we are heirs of “all things.” He said that we are heirs of God and of Christ.
“and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ” Rom. 8:17 Young's Literal Translation
We are heirs of salvation, that is, of God and of Christ. We are NOT heirs of “all things!” Only God's firstborn Son is heir of “all things.”
Now answer my point: If Christ has to wait for His Father to die then He will never take possession of His inheritance for His Father will never die. Therefore, the name “heir of all things” in reference to Him is meaningless. If He is “heir of all things” then He must take full possession of His inheritance.
ANSWER PLEASE!
JA:
Quote I have no issues with Mike that I should aire to you.
Great! So you agree with Mike's Bible which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner”. Is this correct?JA:
Quote Why do you QUOTE the whole of my quote just to say that I have learned to copy and pasted. Why not just refer to the post?
Because you still have not answered my points.1. If Christ has to wait for His Father to die then He will never take possession of His inheritance for His Father will never die. Therefore, the name “heir of all things” in reference to Him is meaningless. If He is “heir of all things” then He must take full possession of His inheritance?
2. Do you disagree with the Mikeboll's NWT which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner?”
Does Jesus Christ own YOU? Yes or no? Did He purchase you with His own blood? Yes or no?
PLEASE STOP DODGING MY QUESTIONS!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 05 2010,04:02) JustAskin said: Quote I have purposefully gone through every applicable verse and explained , extrapolated, verbosed, clarified, concorded, the meaning of each – and you say “Well done for being able to copy and paste”
No sir! You avoided my points. Your post was incoherent. Jesus is called the “heir of all things.”“God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things“, Heb. 1:1
Christ is heir of “all things.” We are not heirs of “all things.” We are heirs of salvation.
“But to which of the angels has He ever said: “ Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?”
We inherit salvation. We do not inherit “all things” like Jesus. So you took Paul out of context. He said that as sons we have the Spirit of God (Gal. 4:6). He did not say that we own “all things” with Jesus.
You are being a DECEIVER my friend. Paul did not say that we are heirs of “all things.” He said that we are heirs of God and of Christ.
“and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ” Rom. 8:17 Young's Literal Translation
We are heirs of salvation, that is, of God and of Christ. We are NOT heirs of “all things!” Only God's firstborn Son is heir of “all things.”
Now answer my point: If Christ has to wait for His Father to die then He will never take possession of His inheritance for His Father will never die. Therefore, the name “heir of all things” in reference to Him is meaningless. If He is “heir of all things” then He must take full possession of His inheritance.
ANSWER PLEASE!
JA:
Quote I have no issues with Mike that I should aire to you.
Great! So you agree with Mike's Bible which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner”. Is this correct?JA:
Quote Why do you QUOTE the whole of my quote just to say that I have learned to copy and pasted. Why not just refer to the post?
Because you still have not answered my points.1. If Christ has to wait for His Father to die then He will never take possession of His inheritance for His Father will never die. Therefore, the name “heir of all things” in reference to Him is meaningless. If He is “heir of all things” then He must take full possession of His inheritance?
2. Do you disagree with the Mikeboll's NWT which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner?”
Does Jesus Christ own YOU? Yes or no? Did He purchase you with His own blood? Yes or no?
PLEASE STOP DODGING MY QUESTIONS!
thinker
JA,WHERE ARE YOU? COME OUT OF HIDING SIR!
thinker
TT,
Why are you claiming that I am hiding? Where do you think I have gone to?Knock it off…
Romans 8:17 says, 'Heirs WITH Christ'
We are brothers WITH him and therefore Heirs WITH him…
Romans 8:9,”But you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of GOD dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of HIM (God) who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, HE who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through HIS Spirit who dwells in you”“16:The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.
And if children then Heirs – Heirs of God and JOINT HEIRS WITH Christ…”TT, what can I say to you? You want to say 'Jesus OWNS us' but Romans 8 says 'we' are brothers, joint heirs with him. So if 'we' are brothers, and heirs of God, heirs With Jesus, how can 'we' be owned by Christ. Does a brother own his own brothers?
TT, you, once again, quote a verse that undermines the very claim you thought you were making…keep this up, TT, you are doing well.
By the way, before you ask. The other verse is for WJ who asked me by way of making a claim against me, whether 'we' had more than one Spirit in 'us' (Other than God's Spirit and our own.) Well, yes, Jesus' Spirit ad well…
You guys are the scholars and yet…
Quote (thethinker @ May 04 2010,12:02) 2. Do you disagree with the Mikeboll's NWT which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner?” Does Jesus Christ own YOU? Yes or no? Did He purchase you with His own blood? Yes or no?
PLEASE STOP DODGING MY QUESTIONS!
thinker
JackIt appears that he is denying Jude 1:4 and 5 that says Jesus is our Only Owner.
WJ
JustAskin said:
Quote Why are you claiming that I am hiding? Where do you think I have gone to? Knock it off…
JA,You know why I am goading you. I am goading you because you said that I was hiding. Can't take your own medicine eh?
JustAskin:
Quote Romans 8:17 says, 'Heirs WITH Christ'
This is erroneous translation. Paul did not say “heirs with Christ.” He said “heirs OF Christ.”17and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ Young's Literal Translation
The Greek literally says that we are heirs “of Christ.” Jesus Himself is my inheritance. He is not your inheritance because you have no part in Him. Of you He says, “Depart from me for I never knew you.”
In the end I will have Jesus! You will have eternal damnation!
JustAskin:
Quote TT, what can I say to you? You want to say 'Jesus OWNS us' but Romans 8 says 'we' are brothers, joint heirs with him. So if 'we' are brothers, and heirs of God, heirs With Jesus, how can 'we' be owned by Christ. Does a brother own his own brothers?
Jesus ALONE owns us. Are you saying that you own me and I own you? Come on! Stick to fishin guy. As a biblical commentator you are totally incompotent. But I would like to eat some of the fish you catch. I am sure you cook it good too.Jude says that Jesus is our ONLY owner!
4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our ONLY Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 4 NWT
Explain how Jesus can be our “ONLY” owner if we own each other with Him?
The problem is that you rely on erroneous translation of Romans 8:17.Christ is my inheritance. He is not your inheritance. You have absolutely no claim to the promise. You don't even comprehend the nature of the promise. No, not at all.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2010,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ May 04 2010,12:02) 2. Do you disagree with the Mikeboll's NWT which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner?” Does Jesus Christ own YOU? Yes or no? Did He purchase you with His own blood? Yes or no?
PLEASE STOP DODGING MY QUESTIONS!
thinker
JackIt appears that he is denying Jude 1:4 and 5 that says Jesus is our Only Owner.
WJ
Keith,Yes JA is denying that Jesus is our ONLY owner. But He does not have the guts to come right out and deny it. This is why he has been in hiding regarding this subject.
Jack
TT,
Can you show me where Jesus is called anything other than Heir, 'Heir and Priest', eternal 'Heir and Priest' to God.
You seem to allude to Jesus taking up his 'Kingship'. Can you show me where this is written in the Scriptures.
While Jesus, indeed 'Reigns', it is in the context of bringing about the reconcilliation of his Father's Kingdom. And even if he reigns in his own kingdom, that kingdom is still UnDeR, or rather, WiThIn, his Father's Kingdom.
And what of Christ being 'High Priest' to his God? His Father?
What is the purpose, the reason, the duty, of a 'High Priest'?
Quote (JustAskin @ May 13 2010,11:15) TT, Can you show me where Jesus is called anything other than Heir, 'Heir and Priest', eternal 'Heir and Priest' to God.
You seem to allude to Jesus taking up his 'Kingship'. Can you show me where this is written in the Scriptures.
While Jesus, indeed 'Reigns', it is in the context of bringing about the reconcilliation of his Father's Kingdom. And even if he reigns in his own kingdom, that kingdom is still UnDeR, or rather, WiThIn, his Father's Kingdom.
And what of Christ being 'High Priest' to his God? His Father?
What is the purpose, the reason, the duty, of a 'High Priest'?
JA,This is the kind of post from you I can appreciate. Are you asking me to show you where Jesus is called “king” in the scriptures? Who rode into Jerusalem as Israel's King? See John 12. When Pilate asked Jesus if He was a King what was His answer? See John 18.
You said that Christ is a priest “to His God.” But Hebrews tells us that Christ's priesthood is “according to the ORDER of Melchizedek” who was a picture of God.
JA:
Quote And even if he reigns in his own kingdom, that kingdom is still UnDeR, or rather, WiThIn, his Father's Kingdom.
Where do you get your two kingdoms theory? The Revelation speaks of the throne (singular) of God and of the Lamb (Rev. 22:1, 3). There are not two thrones dude! Therefore, there are not two kingdoms.Answer this: Why did the Father transfer us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom “of the Son of His love?”
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, Colossians 1:13
If the Son has a kingdom which is separate from His Father's kingdom and “under” His Father's kingdom, then why does the Father transfer people from darkness into His Son's Kingdom? Why doesn't the Father just put us in His own kingdom to begin with?
You still have not answered my two previous points which were these:
1. If Christ has to wait for His Father to die then He will never take possession of His inheritance for His Father will never die. Therefore, the name “heir of all things” in reference to Him is meaningless. If He is “heir of all things” then He must take full possession of His inheritance?
2. Do you disagree with the Mikeboll's NWT which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner?”
I now add a third point:
3. If the Son has a kingdom which is separate from His Father's kingdom and “under” His Father's kingdom, then why does the Father put people into His Son's Kingdom? Why doesn't the Father just put us in His own kingdom to begin with?
thinker
TT, because of the promise.
Do you recall the diagram I layed out showing the heirachy of God's kingdom?
Did not Jesus have a position as ruler WITH the elders, Saints, Elected , below God. And with the rest of mankind in earthly paradise below them?
How long ago did I do that…just now? A week ago? a month?…how long?
Nothing I have said today is different from what I have said before. More refined, perhaps, but the essence is the same:
GOD
Jesus and the Saints, Elect, Elders
(Jesus and the 144,000)
MankindIf Jesus is God, why are the 'We' owned by Jesus but not the Holy Spirit, nor …God…?
If Jesus is God, how is he [Only] an heir?
Was he/Is he then an Apprentice God?
TT, you are so shallow the slightest bit of sunlight, truth, evaporates your petrified waters (Spirit of false truth)
JustAskin said;
Quote Do you recall the diagram I layed out showing the heirachy of God's kingdom?
Do you remember that I said that I do not acknowledge your diagrams?JA:
Quote If Jesus is God, how is he [Only] an heir?
You say He is “only” an heir? As “heir” Jesus is God, Lord, King, Despot and supreme Master over all that He owns.JA:
Quote Nothing I have said today is different from what I have said before.
You have changed your view. You originally denied that Jesus has equal authority with God. You now say that it “came” to you that He has equal authority with God. It is I who has not changed.Now answer my two original points:
1. If Christ has to wait for His Father to die then He will never take possession of His inheritance for His Father will never die. Therefore, the name “heir of all things” in reference to Him is meaningless. If He is “heir of all things” then He must take full possession of His inheritance?
2. Do you disagree with the Mikeboll's NWT which says that Jesus Christ is our “ONLY Owner?”
Also answer why Hebrews says that Christ is a priest “according to the ORDER of Melchizedek” who was a picture of God (Heb. 7).
thinker
TT,
Saying that Jesus is equal in Authority with his Father is Refinement.My previous view was based on EQUALITY AS GOD, that was the basis of the dispute. Then, it came to me that that is why there was a problem. Splitting the problem opem gaining refinement doesn't change the essence…Jesus is still not God and is still not equal to God BUT when God gave him (loaned him) HIS, The Father's, Power and Authority, Jesus is equal to what the Father could do with that SAME power and Authority, because it is the same Power and Authority. This does not make Jesus God because he only holds, not owns, the P&A. As you know, he hands it BACK to the Father when his assignment is completed, thus augmenting the theme of nonOwnership, stewardship. Jesus, thus reigns until his his enemies, and God's enemies, one and the same, are brought to heal, then he seeses rulership of His FATHER'S kingdom and establishes hus own below, under and within, his FATHER'S kingdom.
JustAskin said;
Quote Saying that Jesus is equal in Authority with his Father is Refinement.
I knew you would say this. What a laugh!
You originally denied that Jesus is equal in authority with His Father and then admitted that He is equal in authority with His Father. This is much more than “refinement.” It is a 180 degree turn. Come on! Do you think you are dealing with stupid people here?TO WJ: Tell JA that his new confession that Jesus is equal in authority with His Father is a victory for Trinitarianism and that we have influenced his thinking.
JA:
Quote My previous view was based on EQUALITY AS GOD, that was the basis of the dispute.
Nonsense! What is equality AS God versus equality WITH God? If Jesus has equality with God as you now say then He is God!JA:
Quote …Jesus is still not God and is still not equal to God BUT when God gave him (loaned him) HIS, The Father's, Power and Authority,
What! Are you saying that Jesus is not really the Heir and that the Father only “loans” Him power and authority over His Father's property?So Jesus has not taken full possession as Heir but only has His Father's property on “loan”? Where do you get this stuff?
You have no common sense. An heir takes full possession of the property. Once the heir takes full possession he has absolute sovereignty over the property because it is his own property.
In Hebrew culture the child heir was the owner BEFORE he took full possession.
Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a servant, though he is OWNER of all, but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. Gal. 4:1-2
After the heir was fully investitured he took full possession and was no longer his father's servant. He became “master” over the property he inherited.
The Father and the Son were a father and a son after the pattern of the Hebrew model. Therefore, after Jesus became fully investitured He was no longer His Father's servant. Jesus Christ is now God, Lord, King, Despot and supreme Master over all that He owns.
Get it right dude! You are denying that Jesus is really the “heir of all things”. You are lying in saying that He possesses His authority “on loan”.
Jesus owns all things both by birthright and by purchase price. Does a man purchase something that is “loaned” to him? No! When a man purchases something it is his own property FREE AND CLEAR!
You're a piece of work man!
thinker
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