The cross….not the correct symbol for adoration

[Elizabeth]

Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,11:25)

symbols and their meanings It is surprising the origin of symbols.

Thank you for that, however if you ever go into a Catholic Church you will see that the cross has Jesus hanging on it. Not only that, they kneel in front of it and at Easter time, they have the veneration of the cross and kiss it. That is mainly why I am so against wearing the cross around my neck… Whatever anyone else wants to do is their business.
And it was the Catholic Church or the Universal Roman Church that was the first Church. All other Churches came out of Her.
Peace and Love Irene

[karmarie]

Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,13:21)

You would tend to think no symbols would be needed for your faith, is it not to be shown through your life. Would anyone consider having the commandments written on your door frame a symbol? What of them on your mailbox, coming up your steps to the house? Written on stones in your garden? If this is please let me know.

So true POK,

Our faith is within.

If I knew a person shot by a gun, I wouldnt be wearing the gun around my neck as jewlery, or treating it as an idol! That wouldnt be right.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2010,19:11)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2010,10:17) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2010,18:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2010,07:44) Irene, Do you see anywhere in scripture that God is against a cross?  Maybe you can show me. Many people hang a cross around their neck to show a witness to their faith…that is not idolatry, it is a witness. Hi Lightenup, I can show you many verses, starting with this one… Read Zech.5:1-4. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org EdJ, There is no mention of a cross here: Zech 5:1 Then I turned to look, and there was a flying scroll! 5:2 Someone asked me, “What do you see?” I replied, “I see a flying scroll thirty feet long and fifteen feet wide.” 1  5:3 The speaker went on to say, “This is a curse 2  traveling across the whole earth. For example, according to the curse whoever steals 3  will be removed from the community; or on the other hand (according to the curse) whoever swears falsely will suffer the same fate.” 5:4 “I will send it out,” says the Lord who rules over all, “and it will enter the house of the thief and of the person who swears falsely in my name. It will land in the middle of his house and destroy both timber and stones.” ?? Hi Lightenup, Did you consider the dimensions… “The With” is 1/2 of “The Length”; a cross [†] has those very dimensions! Religious people also swear falsely in God's Name. Teaching a False message about God; Thus the scroll. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ,
And I suppose you want to sell me some swamp land in Florida too!

[Ed J]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2010,16:02)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2010,19:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2010,10:17) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2010,18:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2010,07:44) Irene, Do you see anywhere in scripture that God is against a cross?  Maybe you can show me. Many people hang a cross around their neck to show a witness to their faith…that is not idolatry, it is a witness. Hi Lightenup, I can show you many verses, starting with this one… Read Zech.5:1-4. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org EdJ, There is no mention of a cross here: Zech 5:1 Then I turned to look, and there was a flying scroll! 5:2 Someone asked me, “What do you see?” I replied, “I see a flying scroll thirty feet long and fifteen feet wide.” 1  5:3 The speaker went on to say, “This is a curse 2  traveling across the whole earth. For example, according to the curse whoever steals 3  will be removed from the community; or on the other hand (according to the curse) whoever swears falsely will suffer the same fate.” 5:4 “I will send it out,” says the Lord who rules over all, “and it will enter the house of the thief and of the person who swears falsely in my name. It will land in the middle of his house and destroy both timber and stones.” ?? Hi Lightenup, Did you consider the dimensions… “The With” is 1/2 of “The Length”; a cross [†] has those very dimensions! Religious people also swear falsely in God's Name. Teaching a False message about God; Thus the scroll. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org EdJ, And I suppose you want to sell me some swamp land in Florida too!

Hi Lightenup,

Isa:45:20: Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of (Zech.5:1-4) the nations:
they have no knowledge that set up the wood [†] of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Elizabeth]

I'll buy a couple of lots too.

Georg

[JustAskin]

All,
Isn't the Cross a Roman torture instrument?

Isn't Rome (or the Romans) the 'abomination, standing where it should not'?

Wasn't the Catholic Church founded in Rome?

Why would any right minded Christian want to wear the symbol of Christ's torture, a symbol of the very enemy of Christ, as a symbol of their faith?

Surely, it is the overcoming of Death that is the Glory of Christ, not his painful torture 'on the stake', 'hanging from the tree','the Son of Man lifted up'!

[princess of the king]

Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 06 2010,12:30)

Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,11:25) symbols and their meanings It is surprising the origin of symbols. Thank you for that, however if you ever go into a Catholic Church you will see that the cross has Jesus hanging on it.  Not only that, they kneel in front of it and at Easter time, they have the veneration of the cross and kiss it.   That is mainly why I am so against wearing the cross around my neck… Whatever anyone else wants to do is their business. And it was the Catholic Church or the Universal Roman Church that was the first Church.  All other Churches came out of Her. Peace and Love Irene

Hey Irene,

Hope all is well with you and yours.

The chaotic church has many icons and symbols running throughout their establishment.

We should pray that ones come out of there.

[princess of the king]

Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 06 2010,23:59)

All, Isn't the Cross a Roman torture instrument? Isn't Rome (or the Romans) the 'abomination, standing where it should not'? Wasn't the Catholic Church founded in Rome? Why would any right minded Christian want to wear the symbol of Christ's torture, a symbol of the very enemy of Christ, as a symbol of their faith? Surely, it is the overcoming of Death that is the Glory of Christ, not his painful torture 'on the stake', 'hanging from the tree','the Son of Man lifted up'!

JA,

I tend to think ones that have such things around their neck, need something to hold onto, to strengthen their faith, in times of need, crisis.

When it comes down to it though, it is just metal or iron, it does not save us from anything, nor does it hear us, see us.

Take care.

[princess of the king]

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 06 2010,12:33)

Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,13:21) You would tend to think no symbols would be needed for your faith, is it not to be shown through your life. Would anyone consider having the commandments written on your door frame a symbol? What of them on your mailbox, coming up your steps to the house? Written on stones in your garden? If this is please let me know. So true POK, Our faith is within. If I knew a person shot by a gun, I wouldnt be wearing the gun around my neck as jewlery, or treating it as an idol! That wouldnt be right.

Blessing Karmarie,

Pray all is well with you.

Most would probably refute and state the cross reflects Christ the only begotten, it does not represent a loved one that we have lost.

Many cultures have similarities in regards to revering the dead, the strangest one I have read is the skin the dead relative or husband's tattooed skin is used for decor or clothing. Strange.

Take Care.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2010,03:44)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2010,16:02) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2010,19:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2010,10:17) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2010,18:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2010,07:44) Irene, Do you see anywhere in scripture that God is against a cross?  Maybe you can show me. Many people hang a cross around their neck to show a witness to their faith…that is not idolatry, it is a witness. Hi Lightenup, I can show you many verses, starting with this one… Read Zech.5:1-4. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org EdJ, There is no mention of a cross here: Zech 5:1 Then I turned to look, and there was a flying scroll! 5:2 Someone asked me, “What do you see?” I replied, “I see a flying scroll thirty feet long and fifteen feet wide.” 1  5:3 The speaker went on to say, “This is a curse 2  traveling across the whole earth. For example, according to the curse whoever steals 3  will be removed from the community; or on the other hand (according to the curse) whoever swears falsely will suffer the same fate.” 5:4 “I will send it out,” says the Lord who rules over all, “and it will enter the house of the thief and of the person who swears falsely in my name. It will land in the middle of his house and destroy both timber and stones.” ?? Hi Lightenup, Did you consider the dimensions… “The With” is 1/2 of “The Length”; a cross [†] has those very dimensions! Religious people also swear falsely in God's Name. Teaching a False message about God; Thus the scroll. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org EdJ, And I suppose you want to sell me some swamp land in Florida too! Hi Lightenup, Isa:45:20: Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of (Zech.5:1-4) the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood [†] of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ,
More swamp land? I suppose you have a problem with carousel animals too!

[JustAskin]

The Witness to your faith in God is God Himself, Jesus Christ and your deeds (Works).

Only an earth-bound one needs to display their faith through the visiophysical.

It seems that the need to 'see and touch' in order to believe is not confined to Thomas, alone!

[karmarie]

Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 07 2010,03:09)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 06 2010,12:33) Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,13:21) You would tend to think no symbols would be needed for your faith, is it not to be shown through your life. Would anyone consider having the commandments written on your door frame a symbol? What of them on your mailbox, coming up your steps to the house? Written on stones in your garden? If this is please let me know. So true POK, Our faith is within. If I knew a person shot by a gun, I wouldnt be wearing the gun around my neck as jewlery, or treating it as an idol! That wouldnt be right. Blessing Karmarie, Pray all is well with you. Most would probably refute and state the cross reflects Christ the only begotten, it does not represent a loved one that we have lost. Many cultures have similarities in regards to revering the dead, the strangest one I have read is the skin the dead relative or husband's tattooed skin is used for decor or clothing. Strange. Take Care.

Hope your well too Princes of the King.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 07 2010,00:59)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 06 2010,12:30) Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 06 2010,11:25) symbols and their meanings It is surprising the origin of symbols. Thank you for that, however if you ever go into a Catholic Church you will see that the cross has Jesus hanging on it.  Not only that, they kneel in front of it and at Easter time, they have the veneration of the cross and kiss it.   That is mainly why I am so against wearing the cross around my neck… Whatever anyone else wants to do is their business. And it was the Catholic Church or the Universal Roman Church that was the first Church.  All other Churches came out of Her. Peace and Love Irene Hey Irene, Hope all is well with you and yours. The chaotic church has many icons and symbols running throughout their establishment. We should pray that ones come out of there.

yes, you are so right. I have learned over the years that you can say whatever is against God's ways, they will not hear me, only God can call them out of that system. And yes, we should all pray that they will. We are so thankful to God that He has called us out of that Church. It was not easy at first for me.
But now I have never set foot in another Catholic Church since 1985.
Blessings to you and yours, Irene

[Lightenup]

Hello,
I just learned today about the nine step blood covenant that Jews practiced (I put the ninth step in quotes and thought it would be an interest here in defense of the cross as a memorial.):

Quote

9. PLANTING A MEMORIAL TREE A tree, sprinkled with the blood of the slain animal, would be planted. This was a testimony to the covenant. As the tree grew, it was always a reminder of what had been transacted there, and how it was, and would always be enforce. In Bible times, men only became friends after the covenant was cut. All children–even those yet unborn–would be included in the covenant between families. “Dear Jesus, every time I look upon Your tree–the cross–I remember Your sacrifice for me. There is no greater love. Thank You, Lord, for the cross”.

Found:
http://wci888.com/JesusSeriesDetails.php?blogID=602

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2010,15:21)

Hello, I just learned today about the nine step blood covenant that Jews practiced (I put the ninth step in quotes and thought it would be an interest here in defense of the cross as a memorial.): Quote 9. PLANTING A MEMORIAL TREE A tree, sprinkled with the blood of the slain animal, would be planted. This was a testimony to the covenant. As the tree grew, it was always a reminder of what had been transacted there, and how it was, and would always be enforce. In Bible times, men only became friends after the covenant was cut. All children–even those yet unborn–would be included in the covenant between families. “Dear Jesus, every time I look upon Your tree–the cross–I remember Your sacrifice for me. There is no greater love. Thank You, Lord, for the cross”. Found: http://wci888.com/JesusSeriesDetails.php?blogID=602

LU

could you find that practice in the bible and show me were it is.

[Lightenup]

terraricca,
I first heard of it today while listening to a CD about Covenant knowledge and then I googled it and found many sites saying the same thing. I didn't find scriptural references about it. They say that it was a well known custom for the Jews. If I ever come across a Biblical reference, I will try to remember to let you know.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2010,16:50)

terraricca, I first heard of it today while listening to a CD about Covenant knowledge and then I googled it and found many sites saying the same thing.  I didn't find scriptural references about it.  They say that it was a well known custom for the Jews.  If I ever come across a Biblical reference, I will try to remember to let you know.

LU

the reason i ask you is that i never came across that practice .

and it may be a pagan practice ,practice in Canaan.

[Elizabeth]

Even if there was such a tradition of planting a memorial tree; how can you draw a connection between that tree, and a cross made from two beams that Jesus died on?

Georg

[Lightenup]

Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 27 2010,02:31)

Even if there was such a tradition of planting a memorial tree; how can you draw a connection between that tree, and a cross made from two beams that Jesus died on? Georg

I don't think it is so much of a stretch Georg.  The cross was beams from a tree with the blood splattered on it from the sacrifice.  Google “the nine steps of the blood covenant” and see what you come up with.  Anyway, the cross is a memorial symbol for most, for the covenant made.  A memorial symbol with blood splattered on it apparently was the common tradition.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 04 2010,13:02)

Georg, Read this: Quote Josh 22:21-29 21 Then the sons of Reuben and the sons of Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh answered and spoke to the heads of the families of Israel. 22 “The Mighty One, God, the Lord, the Mighty One, God, the Lord! He knows, and may Israel itself know. If it was in rebellion, or if in an unfaithful act against the Lord do not save us this day! 23 “If we have built us an altar to turn away from following the Lord, or if to offer a burnt offering or grain offering on it, or if to offer sacrifices of peace offerings on it, may the Lord Himself require it. 24 “But truly we have done this out of concern, for a reason, saying, 'In time to come your sons may say to our sons, “What have you to do with the Lord, the God of Israel? 25 “For the Lord has made the Jordan a border between us and you, you sons of Reuben and sons of Gad; you have no portion in the Lord.” So your sons may make our sons stop fearing the Lord.' 26 “Therefore we said, 'Let us build an altar, not for burnt offering or for sacrifice; 27 rather it shall be a witness between us and you and between our generations after us, that we are to perform the service of the Lord before Him with our burnt offerings, and with our sacrifices and with our peace offerings, so that your sons will not say to our sons in time to come, “You have no portion in the Lord.”' 28 “Therefore we said, 'It shall also come about if they say this to us or to our generations in time to come, then we shall say, “See the copy of the altar of the Lord which our fathers made, not for burnt offering or for sacrifice; rather it is a witness between us and you.”' 29 “Far be it from us that we should rebel against the Lord and turn away from following the Lord this day, by building an altar for burnt offering, for grain offering or for sacrifice, besides the altar of the Lord our God which is before His tabernacle.” NASU This tells about an altar being built as a copy of the altar of the Lord at Shiloh.  It's purpose was to be a witness to future generations that the altar of God is part of their history and to be honored. People use the cross for their witness to others that the altar which the Lord was sacrificed on is an important part of their history and a symbol of connection with other believers. When I go to a museum and look at the portraits of people that have lived hundreds of years ago and I see a cross around their neck, there is a connection.  Of course, the cross has been mishandled but the Lord knows the hearts and intentions. I disagree with you that the cross is the mark of the beast.  Satan worshippers use an upside down cross and that is of course awful. Kathi

What was the altar used for? sacrifices.
What were the sacrifices for? sin.
You need to read the scriptures you gave, and see what is actually being discussed.

Georg

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