The cross….not the correct symbol for adoration

[The One]

For hundreds of years before me,till my time now we have seen our brothers and sisters in Christ wear,mount on home walls,place on top of churches or behind altars,…..crosses.They appear as statements of faith and belief(and before I begin please let me state that I find nothing sinful or unscriptural about this practice except when they become objects of worship)and say to the world that”I am of Christ”,which is admirable.

But(and you knew one was coming)the cross should never have been our symbol of faith.Did Christ's cross experience differ from other men?(except for when the Father removed Himself so that Jesus' would experience seperation due to sin,which we all do when we disobey the Father's word)The answer is NO.It still ended in death.

The victory over sin and death did not come via the cross,but rather by the rolled away stone!!That stone which sealed the tomb and had the priestly seal set upon it(Matt.27:66)and was guarded by soldiers of the high priest.That stone which the angel rolled away from the tomb entrance and sat upon(Matt.28:2).That stone which,when rolled away,let the annointed Christ walk back from death into this world giving us victory,joy and hope!!”THIS STONE”,and the empty tomb behind it.should have always been our symbol(if one is needed)of victory!!Rather than that of the instrument of Jesus' death(because truly nothing is unique in that symbol.It happened to thousands of people in those days).But the empty tomb,and the stone that was rolled away by the Father's own angel to bring Jesus back to us and thereby establishing the kingdom through Christ,THAT is what should be our symbol of hope,and faith!

I know many may disagree with me,but I am much more thankful to God for the stone which was rolled away,rather than the thing which caused the Lord's physical death.I would much rather be an optimist than a pessimist when it comes to symbols of my salvation.A joyful symbol rather than a sad reminder.A symbol of spiritual hope and newness of life rather than one of death and loss.

In 2 Corinthians 2:12…”having been buried with Him in baptism,in which you were also raised up(the stone of sin and death being rolled away)with Him through faith in the working of God,who raised Him from the dead.”Both things had to happen.But you can get wet without becoming”like Christ”.

Jesus' death was part 1 of our salvation,but would've been meaningless had Part 2(the victory)not occurred!!The rolled away stone.The one The Father had moved by His angel to bring Jesus back thereby giving us hope of salvation.THIS is my symbol of oneness with Christ in my soul,spirit and heart!!

[banana]

Quote (The One @ Jan. 17 2010,15:28)

For hundreds of years before me,till my time now we have seen our brothers and sisters in Christ wear,mount on home walls,place on top of churches or behind altars,…..crosses.They appear as statements of faith and belief(and before I begin please let me state that I find nothing sinful or unscriptural about this practice except when they become objects of worship)and say to the world that”I am of Christ”,which is admirable.   But(and you knew one was coming)the cross should never have been our symbol of faith.Did Christ's cross experience differ from other men?(except for when the Father removed Himself so that Jesus' would experience seperation due to sin,which we all do when we disobey the Father's word)The answer is NO.It still ended in death.   The victory over sin and death did not come via the cross,but rather by the rolled away stone!!That stone which sealed the tomb and had the priestly seal set upon it(Matt.27:66)and was guarded by soldiers of the high priest.That stone which the angel rolled away from the tomb entrance and sat upon(Matt.28:2).That stone which,when rolled away,let the annointed Christ walk back from death into this world giving us victory,joy and hope!!”THIS STONE”,and the empty tomb behind it.should have always been our symbol(if one is needed)of victory!!Rather than that of the instrument of Jesus' death(because truly nothing is unique in that symbol.It happened to thousands of people in those days).But the empty tomb,and the stone that was rolled away by the Father's own angel to bring Jesus back to us and thereby establishing the kingdom through Christ,THAT is what should be our symbol of hope,and faith!   I know many may disagree with me,but I am much more thankful to God for the stone which was rolled away,rather than the thing which caused the Lord's physical death.I would much rather be an optimist than a pessimist when it comes to symbols of my salvation.A joyful symbol rather than a sad reminder.A symbol of spiritual hope and newness of life rather than one of death and loss.  In 2 Corinthians 2:12…”having been buried with Him in baptism,in which you were also raised up(the stone of sin and death being rolled away)with Him through faith in the working of God,who raised Him from the dead.”Both things had to happen.But you can get wet without becoming”like Christ”.  Jesus' death was part 1 of our salvation,but would've been meaningless had Part 2(the victory)not occurred!!The rolled away stone.The one The Father had moved by His angel to bring Jesus back thereby giving us hope of salvation.THIS is my symbol of oneness with Christ in my soul,spirit and heart!!

Hello Welcome to Heaven Net! This is interesting. My Husband has studied Ancient History and the Cross in nothing but the tool by which people died at that time. Some people go as far as kissing the Cross on good Friday. which to me is an abomination. It was Constantine who had a dream about the cross and He had all of His Soldiers put a cross on their Shields. When my Husband and I believe that the cross is the mark of the beast. If we are right one day we will see.
Peace and Love Irene

[Lightenup]

Welcome to HN,
I don't see the cross as a tool by which people died but more of an altar upon which Jesus was sacrificed.  The Romans and Jews though of Jesus's death as a crucifixion but ultimately, it was Jesus's very Father and God that sent His Son to die as a sacrifice.  In the Old Testament, God ordered some altars to be built as a place to sacrifice an offering and the altar often became a lasting memorial.  The altars weren't worshipped and I don't know anyone that worships the cross but considers it more of a memorial of the greatest sacrifice for our benefit.  I agree that it would be wrong to worship a symbol of any sort but I don't think it is worshipped as an idol just by wearing it around your neck or kissing it.  Kissing something does not denote worship, it is when the something is thought of as a god.

My opinion,
Kathi

[banana]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2010,22:36)

Welcome to HN, I don't see the cross as a tool by which people died but more of an altar upon which Jesus was sacrificed.  The Romans and Jews though of Jesus's death as a crucifixion but ultimately, it was Jesus's very Father and God that sent His Son to die as a sacrifice.  In the Old Testament, God ordered some altars to be built as a place to sacrifice an offering and the altar often became a lasting memorial.  The altars weren't worshipped and I don't know anyone that worships the cross but considers it more of a memorial of the greatest sacrifice for our benefit.  I agree that it would be wrong to worship a symbol of any sort but I don't think it is worshipped as an idol just by wearing it around your neck or kissing it.  Kissing something does not denote worship, it is when the something is thought of as a god. My opinion, Kathi

Kathi!  If you kneel in front of a Cross and even kiss it like the Catholics do it is an abomination to our God.  I used to do so too, so I know what I am talking about.  That is the truth and you can quote me anytime about that.  Read up on Constantine you might be surprised what you will find out .  Or ask Georg…Love Irene

[Lightenup]

Irene,
I think that is probably an act of respect for Christ dying on the cross. I don't believe that the catholics pray to the cross, do they?
Love,
Kathi

[JustAskin]

Hi and welcome One,
As a child my parents tried to make me wear a cross on a chain – they said it would help to protect me from harm bh the Devil but I refused.
Satan will try all sorts of things to get us to direct attention and the rightful Worship from God the Father.

How many people make pilgramages to the Holyland to worship at the cave where Jesus is supposed to have been in. Imagine if the stone was still there – ha! How Satan will smile…

Already we have this disgusting thing called 'the shroud of Turin' … All those sad souls who claim, and all those who believe, that it once wrapped the body of Christ!

By what means did Jesus instruct us to remember him: Luke 22:19 tells us.

Above all and in no way did Jesus instruct us to worship him nor design, fashion or hold in honor any object in his name – as,no matter what the initial sentiment was, Satan will cause it to become an object of worship to Christ.

One, be careful of your Stone – you may find it placed around your neck!!

Worship God!

[banana]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2010,23:41)

Irene, I think that is probably an act of respect for Christ dying on the cross.  I don't believe that the catholics pray to the cross, do they? Love, Kathi

Kathi!   I don't think that any one of the Catholics realize what they are doing.  Neither did we when we belonged.  However when you kiss the cross, what is that?  Is that not wrong to do?  Also the Cross in the Catholic Church has Jesus on it, not like all other Churches that just has the Cross.  So that is double wrong I believe so!!!  Idol worship on top off all. Also to have it put on all of the Soldiers shields and go to war, and think that it saves you?
That is what they did back then.  Read Georg's Book He can explain it much better then I can.  Sometimes I do wonder how God looks at all of this.  I am forever thankful to God that He called us out of that Church.
Also they believe in the trinity and they do in vain worship God, teaching the doctrine the commandments of men.  Math. 15:9
Love Irene

[banana]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 18 2010,01:26)

Hi and welcome One, As a child my parents tried to make me wear a cross on a chain – they said it would help to protect me from harm bh the Devil but I refused. Satan will try all sorts of things to get us to direct attention and the rightful Worship from God the Father. How many people make pilgramages to the Holyland to worship at the cave where Jesus is supposed to have been in. Imagine if the stone was still there – ha! How Satan will smile… Already we have this disgusting thing called 'the shroud of Turin' … All those sad souls who claim, and all those who believe, that it once wrapped the body of Christ! By what means did Jesus instruct us to remember him: Luke 22:19 tells us. Above all and in no way did Jesus instruct us to worship him nor design, fashion or hold in honor any object in his name – as,no matter what the initial sentiment was, Satan will cause it to become an object of worship to Christ. One, be careful of your Stone – you may find it placed around your neck!! Worship God!

Yes, you are so right. Unfortunatley they do not know what they are doing, and only those that God calles out will, and for that we should all be thankful for. Keep up the good work.
With Peace and Love Irene

[JustAskin]

B, Thanks for the supporting responses.
You need not look far for God's view on all this – It is written in the Scriptures for all to learn from.
But don't think that we can change them – it has been predestined that many will go down with the Great Dragon and the Beast.
Does not mean we should not try to get them to change – just not despair at the loss – nor get 'excited' in an ungodly way in our exasperation.
If they killed Jesus Christ – who are we to be better than our master!!

Peace to you all in the name of Jesus Christ.
Worship the Father.

[terraricca]

hi all

we have to worship the father in spirit,not with images but with our own spirit and hearth this is the true worship the father wants were ever we are.

[Lightenup]

I think that satan would love for us not to wear a cross as a remembrance because that is where he was defeated and faced a future of eternal punishment.

Eph 2:14-16
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
NASU

Luke 9:23
23 And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
NASU

Luke 14:27
27 “Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
NASU
1 Cor 1:17
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
NASU
Gal 6:14
14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
NASU
Phil 3:18
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
NASU

You see that the Lord says to daily carry our own cross, well a cross necklace can serve as a good reminder of that COMMAND. I think that legalism here is uneccessary and discouraging to those who find the cross to be a reminder of the victory we have in Christ and also to remind themselves that we are to carry our cross too. We have freedom to wear this symbol as a reminder…satan would love for you to try to condemn those who think of it properly and wear it properly. Legalism must stop among brothers in Christ…do not burden your brothers with this. Let it go…

My opinion,
Kathi

[terraricca]

hi LU
that was my view as well few years back,but wen Paul talk about the boats in the cross he really mean in the sacrifice or reason for the sacrifice of Christ not the wooden material,it is also important to remember we are not walking in the flesh but in the spirit,all those material thing whatever they may be are for the flesh not needed for the spirit.
Ro 6:17 You used to be slaves of sin. But thank God that with your whole heart you obeyed the teachings you were given!
Ro 6:18 You have been set free from sin. You have become slaves to right living

Ro 8:28 We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. He appointed them to be saved in keeping with his purpose.

so i believe we should be reflecting the light of Christ ,in are behavior and speech and mind,not with physical representations.who could become accessories to worship idols.

for God says be HOLY because i am HOLY

[Lightenup]

Terraricca,
The cross symbol reminds some people of something spiritual and important and can help people remember to walk in the spirit. Sometimes men carry a cross in their pocket to help them when they are tempted with lust to remember to walk in the spirit instead of the flesh. If it doesn't edify you to see a cross then I'm sorry but I think satan would celebrate that attitude.

[terraricca]

LU
you can believe what you want ,
but if you have faith not strong enough to help you to fight against the devil then ask God for more,
it is your spirit who needs help to fight and you have to change your way of thinking so that your thinking reflects the will of God not the one of the flesh.

it is an inside battle that we fight as Christians and to over come it we have the way of Christ ,his teachings,this is our cross to bear.

[Lightenup]

Good advice terraricca,
If you do not have enough faith that you will not make an idol out of a piece of cross-shaped metal then ask God to help you overcome your weakness for your idea of God is very small. Ask yourself if you have thoughts of condemnation towards those who wear crosses. That would be flesh and legalism maybe a religious spirit thrown in. It is truly freeing to not have such hang-ups towards such things. Let it go. Be free in Jesus Name…Amen…thank you Jesus!

[terraricca]

LU
i never condemn no one ,we are all in front of Gods throne ,i have always help if i can to bring up what is down but i can not do it for them,each of us has to bear his cross i don't mind pick up some of the load but not all.
i have been most of my teenager years on the streets i know what it is but you have to willing to get out of it and have faith in God he will pull you out of it if you ask, i know so.
i find out most people i have met do not want to be saved they want to do what they want and that it .
I have been there but good reasoning took me out of it ,
I am now close to 70 years old and i always have try to help first anyone i do not see color and ear no language just living souls of Gods creation.
as for religion i left that 38 years ago never to go back to men made organization not for God purpose.

[banana]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 18 2010,14:56)

Good advice terraricca, If you do not have enough faith that you will not make an idol out of a piece of cross-shaped metal then ask God to help you overcome your weakness for your idea of God is very small.  Ask yourself if you have thoughts of condemnation towards those who wear crosses.  That would be flesh and legalism maybe a religious spirit thrown in.  It is truly freeing to not have such hang-ups towards such things.  Let it go.  Be free in Jesus Name…Amen…thank you Jesus!

Kathi! I can't believe what you are saying about the cross. What is an idol? If you make anything that is concerning God and kneel down and kiss it even, you saying its right to do, because it reminds you of Jesus sacrifice? It is totally wrong. If Jesus would have died on the Guillotine would you wear that around your neck? The cross again in the Catholic Church has a person which is to be Jesus and they do,do,do worship it. And all has come out of the Catholic Church. It was the Universal Church that controlled all society, and many are still deceived and think it is perfectly right to do worship in front of the cross. In fact one Lady in the Church where our Son goes told me she needs that cross, to worship. Bull. Be free to do anything s long as as you think it is right. The 10 Commandments have been magnified.

The second commandment is do not make any graven image, whether in Heaven of on earth.

But you do what you want to, its your choice, but it is also my duty to inform others of what is right. And this is wrong to do, not even IMO. It is a commandment. They have not been done away with the have been fulfilled. They are magnified. Nobody is condemning anyone to believe in that commandment from God. It is only the Sabbath that was not for us. but for the Children of Israel. Exodus 22:16-17
Read the Sermon of the Mount.

Peace and Love Irene

[Lightenup]

Irene,
Isn't the important thing that they do worship whether in front of the cross or not?  Keep the main thing, the main thing…they are worshipping God at the foot of a cross…Mary did also.  They are not worshipping a cross…that to me is ridiculous.

[banana]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 18 2010,16:05)

Irene, Isn't the important thing that they do worship whether in front of the cross or not?  Keep the main thing, the main thing…they are worshipping God at the foot of a cross…Mary did also.  They are not worshipping a cross…that to me is ridiculous.

No it is not the most important thing that they worship, because of the trinity…….Where you in the Catholic Church like we were, no. So you really don't know. Venerating the cross it is called. In Spirit and in Truth shall you worship Me and not with an Idol. Venerating means to hold in High esteem. Only God the Father we should hold in High esteem, not a piece of wood. And they also believe in a trinity a man made doctrine and not of God……..Math. 15:9
Irene

[seekingtruth]

In my opinion the cross is a world wide recognized icon for Christianity. The larger problem (in my opinion) is it brings with it a history of “so called christians” and the evils done in “his name”. As an icon I believe the cross is as good as the fish symbol or whatever else may be chosen, as long as it remains an icon. As to it being the mark of the beast who knows, satan usually does twist truth for his purposes. Even the bronze snake made by God's command was destroyed due to peoples inclination to worship objects and I believe that some have indeed done the same with the cross.

To me this type of discussion falls under the verse I use for my signature below, but all I offer is my opinion

Wm

[Author]

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