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Hi Nick,
You: Gnostic nonsense.
Come back to the truthMe: The truth is not Nick Hassan nonsense. I bet you don’t even know what Gnosticism is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, “having knowledge”, from γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) is a modern name for a variety of ancient religious ideas and systems, originating in Jewish-Christian milieux in the first and second century AD. These systems believed that the material world is created by an emanation of the highest God, trapping the divine spark within the human body. This divine spark could be liberated by gnosis. Some of the core teachings include the following:
All matter is evil, and the non-material, spirit-realm is good.
There is an unknowable God, who gave rise to many lesser spirit beings called Aeons.
The creator of the (material) universe is not the supreme god, but an inferior spirit
Gnosticism does not deal with “sin”, only ignorance.
To achieve salvation, one needs to get in touch with secret knowledge.Me: Show me how I adhere to this gnostic principles. Tell me what you think Gnosticism is.
Hi TC,
Your confident assertions do not have a foundation in scripture but in your fertile imagination.
Gnostic Nonsense
Nick,
You still have not answered my questions above but made assertions that sidestepped what I had asked. I have supported my posts with much scriptures. You on the other hand are a blind ignorant bat. You do not know what you are talking about in most of your posts but rely on criticism of others’ post with your one-liners that no longer are funny but loony.
Hi All,
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
Me: Christ loves the church as he loves himself. We reverence Christ as God.
https://biblehub.com/greek/5399.htm
3. to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience
Me: We are united with Christ in mind and actually and metaphorically in body. We do not partake of the marriage of to Christ until he appears. Then we become one. The glory that we receive with Christ (human) is of the same glory that Christ (Word) received of his Father. It is the glory of the spirit applied to the whole body or church. For God is spirit (mind), and not the reflection of the spirit, the visible body. The glory of God now includes the heart and mind of the human Christ in it. It includes our human minds as one with Christ. For the body is a reflection of the glory of the spirit.
Rev 21:22 (NKJV) But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Me: These are the minds (God and the church or temple) of the spirit in the temple. It is internally the temple of the one true God and his externally his expressed visible image.
Verse 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [a]in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.
Me: This is the manifestation without of the glory God (singular) of the temple within. It is the body of the lamb and his church.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God…17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 19 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Me: This is the marriage supper or feast of the Lord. It is God’s vengeance on the world.
https://biblehub.com/greek/2837.htm
Matt 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept (G2837).
Rev 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep (G2837).Me: G2837 can mean asleep in the literal sense, and not just dead which is secondary in meaning. Death is a very deep sleep with no consciousness. The “rest” in Rev 6:9-11 is not of the dead.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest (G373) yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
https://biblehub.com/greek/373.htm
Definition: to give rest, give intermission from labor, by implication refresh
Usage: I make to rest, give rest to; mid. and pass: I rest, take my ease.Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Me: Both Gen 4:10 and Rev 6:9-10 show the different states of rest—those that rest in the ground and those whose minds rest in the Lord. This is explained more below.Young’s Literal Translation
Eccl 3:21Who knoweth (3045) the spirit of the sons of man that is going up on high, and the spirit of the beast that is going down below to the earth?
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3045.htm
These are some of the definitions of (H3045) that fit.
3045. yada: notice (2), observe (2), perceive (1), perceived (1), observe (2), perceive (1), perceived (1)
For in the verses prior, man is compared to beasts when he dies.Eccl 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Me: Man without the holy spirit and human heart of Christ die like beast. They go back to the earth. But in the NT something wonderful happened as explained above. When we are baptized with the holy spirit, the holy spirit becomes our spirit and only spirit at our physical deaths. The human heart of Chris becomes our only heart. Thus, our minds rise into heaven after we are baptized of the holy spirit, NT or OT.
Eccl 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man (the holy spirit with the heart of Christ in it) that goeth upward.
Let the author of the below link explain it. When followers are absent from mortal bodies they are with the Lord. Their house in heaven is holy and is the temple of God with Christ as the cornerstone.
https://www.truthaboutdeath.com/q-and-a/id/1601/doesnt-paul-say-that-to-be-absent-from-the-body-is-to-be-present-with-the-lord1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Me: One obvious understanding of the above scripture is that salvation has come in the flesh through the anointed one. But another is that through the anointed one salvation is come into is the humanity of his church, Christ being the cornerstone. We become sons of God through Christ and are glorified as sons of God with bodies that reflect that glory. God will be expressed through his church, Christ being the chief cornerstone (Matt 5:14, John 1:9).
Luke 9:36 (ASV) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my Son, my chosen: hear ye him.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%209:35Me: Notice that Christ was chosen and God’s son of God before Jordan.
CHOSEN
2106. eudokeó 1. as in secular authors, followed by an infinitive, it seems good to one, is one’s good pleasure; to think it good, choose, determine, decide: Luke 12:32; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 1:15; once followed by the accusative with an infinitive, Colossians 1:19 (cf. Lightfoot; Winers Grammar, § 64, 3 b.; Buttmann, § 129, 16); with the included idea of kindness accompanying the decision, Romans 15:26f; to do willingly what is signified by the infinitive, to be ready to, 1 Thessalonians 2:8; to prefer, choose rather (A. V. we thought it good), 1 Thessalonians 3:1; Sir. 25:16; more fully μᾶλλον εὐδοκῶ, 2 Corinthians 5:8.Me: Now it was not the almighty himself that was speaking because no one has heard his voice. And it was not the Word that was speaking because the Word was in Christ. Was it not an angel that was speaking as God, representing God.
Revelation:1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Me: Neither almighty God nor Christ was speaking directly to John, but it was an angel representing both, speaking as though he was Christ speaking for God. In fact, the angel must have appeared awesome whereas John must have forgotten that it was an angel speaking to him (Rev 19:10, 22:9) and not God nor Christ.
But all will bow down to Christ (Phil 2:10-11, Rom 14:11).Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Me: God says he changes not. God is invisible spirit (John 4:24, Col 1:16, John 1:18. You cannot hear or see spirit–ever. Did God not express himself in different milieus? So is God the burning bush? Or is God the spirit in the burning bush. Maybe he is both (Ex 33:20). However how God expresses himself, God is the total of spirit and expression, even if that expression is a theophany and is temporary.
https://www.gotquestions.org/theophany-Christophany.htmlExodus 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Me: This is the Word (spokesman) of God. It is how our now father expressed himself, through his Word and theophany.
Hi All,
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning WITH God.
Me: The “beginning” in John 1:1 is the “same beginning” in 1 John 1:1. If you have a beginning, you are created. God created a permanent body and soul for himself. Why does God need to be visible if he has no one to express himself to?
NT definition of beginning: 746. arché – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. “the initial (starting) point”; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest (“preeminent”).
OT definition of beginning: 7223. rishon
former, first, chiefThis is the beginning of all creation.
Young’s Literal Translation
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation, 16 because IN (the Word in him) him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created, 17 and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted. 18 And himself is the head of the body — the assembly — who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things — himself — first,New American Standard Bible
Romans 8:18 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 19 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 20 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of GodMe: All will have new bodies. Emphasis in the parenthesis is mine.
This is the new spiritual creation. The only spirit will be the holy spirit (Eph 4:4) and all bodies will reflect or manifest that spirit.
The expression of God and together was God, even though the expression was a creation. The Word (mind of the Spirit) was manifested in the human Christ (mind of the flesh) and together was the Word. So, God and the Word, now the messiah, is God. The Word was in the beginning and responsible for all creation.New American Standard Bible
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.Unapproachable light. We can only see the manifestation of the light through the Word (John 1:4, 9). We can never really (physically or spiritually) see the unapproachable light. His name is also is incomprehensible.
So father which implies source and the source of the creative expression of himself.
Christ (the man together with the Word) as one was anointed or foreordained by God to be our savior.Hebrews 10:4 (NKJV) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Me: Who is he? Did he have a permanent body before he came into the world as the savior? No!
Heb 13:8 (NKJV) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Me: yesterday does not mean from eternity. It must mean from the Word’s body here on earth.
The Word became flesh. The Word became one with flesh. So his body is part of him.
New American Standard Bible
{Psalm 8:5 What is man that You take thought of him, And the son (of God) of man that You care for him? 6 Yet You have made him (the messiah) a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!Me: Christ is the son of God through man. Christ, not all of mankind was made a little lower than God. God had considered man to make his son of.
New American Standard Bible
Rev 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”Me: Christ is the beginning creation and the end creation, the physical and the spiritual.
1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward (last) that which is spiritual.:Emphasis in the parenthesis is mine.
Hi TC,
Nobody has heard God?
You make stuff up in the way of the Gnostics.
The basis of what you write is not revelation but your own fanciful intellect.
Hi Nick,
First of all, you do not understand what Gnosticism is.
Secondly, when I say no one has heard God’s voice at any time, I am speaking about God Almighty, not his son created in his express image.
New American Standard Bible
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/5-37.htm
Young’s Literal TranslationMe: No one has seen God (the father) at any time.
John 5:37 ‘And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Me: Neither has anyone heard his voice at any time.
Hi All,
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made (including Christ), so that they are without excuse.
1 Tim 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
1 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/6-16.htm
New American Standard Bible
1 Tim 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light (both knowledge and wisdom and sight), whom no (G3762: one) has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amien.Me: We will never see God Almighty nor understand the way he does understand. We includes everyone, including his son.
Hi TC,
You make statements about nobody ever hearing the voice of God.
Scripture does not say ever so.
You are on your own.
Your foundation is sand..you.
No Nick,
It is your head that is in the sand.
John 5:37 ‘And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen.
Tell me what this verse means.
Hi TC,
Context. Jn 5. 18f
The Master was rebuking the rebellious Jews.
God had spoken to them from the beginning but they did not know His voice.
He was not making a statement that no man can ever hear the voice of God, except in your imagination.
unwise
Hi TC,
Lk 9.36 is not before the Jordan, but after, as is Jn 12.28, Mt 17.5 etc when the Father spoke.
But it was at the Jordan when God first introduced His Son to men.
’This is My beloved son, in whom I am well pleased’ Mt 3.17
God fulfilled the prophecy of Ps 2
’Thou art My Son.Today I have begotten thee..’
TC……Nick is right in this. God has spoken to many . Jesus was addressing just those people in front of him there. The real question is why are you trying so hard to transfer the Glory of God the Father , to The man Jesus our brother. When are you going to see Jesus as a fellow human beibg, whom God the Father chose and anointed Ted him to preach the Gospel of the kingdom of God to us all. You say he was made in the image of God as if we arn’t also. You say but he is the Son of God, as if we arn’t, but scripture say different, “brethern know you not the “NOW” you “ARE” the sons of GOD.
YOU SIMPLY CANNOT CEASE FROM PREACHING A “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION” as all fallen Christanity does.
We believe we are connected with the “MAN” Jesus, you believe mankind is not connected with him, which is a complete different gospel. We see Jesus as a perfected human being as one of us, in the family of God, you see him as a prexisting being who only is made in the “image” of God. Your view of him is far more in aliment with the Gnostic’s , then you think.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Nick,
You: Context. Jn 5. 18f
The Master was rebuking the rebellious Jews.
God had spoken to them from the beginning but they did not know His voice.
He was not making a statement that no man can ever hear the voice of God, except in your imagination.
unwiseMe:
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Me: Not “ever have seen the father and not ever hearing his voice go together” because they are parallel phrases in the same sentence. It is true that “neither hear his voice” can refer to the Pharisees not understanding his speech.
Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Me: Notice that John was there to record John 5:37 later.
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
.John probably perceived what Christ was speaking. Maybe Phillip (John 14:7-11) didn’t at that time, but he sure did after Christ’s resurrection and ascension into heaven. The apostles were with Christ when Christ spoke in John 5:37. Did they not hear his audible voice? Did they understand everything he said?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Wake up from your slumber.
Hi Nick:
Me: Also notice they word “shape” in at the end of the last sentence in verse 37 of John 5.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/5-37.htmMe: Click on the above link. Then click on 1491 above “form”.
Definition: appearance, fashion, shape, sight
Usage: visible form, shape, appearance, outward show, kind, species, class.
HELPS Word-studies
1491 eídos (a neuter noun derived from 1492 /eídō, “to see, apprehend”) – properly, the sight (i.e. of something exposed, observable), especially its outward appearance or shape (J. Thayer). 1491 (eídos) emphasizes “what is physically seen” (BAGD) before mentally or spiritually apprehended. See 1492 (eidō, oida).
Example: 1491 /eídos (“visible appearance”) refers to the outward form taken on by each of the three Persons of the tri-personal God: a) the Holy Spirit in Lk 3:22: “And the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove”; b) Jesus, in Lk 9:29: “And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming”; and c) the Father, in Jn 5:37: “You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.”Me: You can likewise click on 5436 above “voice” and see that voice means an audible voice firstly and then spiritually comprehended secondly because it is a parallel to shape in the same verse.
The whole point of John 5:37 is that Christ represented the Almighty God as the physical witness of God himself giving a spiritually message through his audible voice.
It is amazing how you do not comprehend this.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me
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