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You:
God is faithful.
The Spirit given to Jesus did not leave him but raised him after he visited the spirits in prison . 1Peter 3
The same abiding Spirit will raise his brothers too
Me:
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/23-46.htm
Luke 23:46 (interlinear) And having called out with a voice loud Jesus said Father into hands of you I commit the spirit of me this moreover having said he breathed his last.
Comment: The interlinear version says that the Messiah committed the spirit in him to God’s hands—and that spirit in him was the holy spirit (2 Cor 5:19).
How can Christ visit the spirits in prison (death) if he were dead as you have indicated? Doesn’t make up bit of sense at all. Rather, Christ raised the spirits in person after he had ascended into heaven and became the son of God with power (John 5:25). Where there is spirit, there is the mind of spirit. There he baptized them with the holy spirit. “Visited the spirits that were in prison does not mean that he had to be in hades to do that. The holy spirit with Christ in it became the new spirit in their minds.
You:
No your proof of him as a child being anointed is weak.
The Spirit gives gifts of prophecy, healing , knowledge , discernment of spirits etc(1Cor 12)
and none of these were manifest before the Jordan.
Me: Christ was full of the holy spirit before he went to Jordon as I have shown you. He was anointed with the special gifts of the spirit at Jordon. Your statements that Christ did not have the holy spirit at birth nor afterwards until Jordan is absurd.
Hi Nick,
You:
4815 Sullambano is used for the CONCEPTIONS in Mary and in Elizabeth.
Lk 2.21. Lk 1.36
Me:
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
True, both John and Christ were conceived as humans supernaturally. But Christ was conceived with the spirit of God in him. John received the holy spirit after he was born.
Luke 2:21 does not have anything to do with anything we are discussing here.
Hi Nick,
You: We do not become sons of God by putting on Christ ( Gal.3.27)
Me:
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children (sons) of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Comment: Verse 26 explains verse 27. We are the children (sons of God) when we have been baptized with Christ through the holy spirit. We then “put on Christ” because we are resurrected into his life. We put on Christ for our inner or spiritual man.
Hi Nick,
You:
Jesus was conceived of Mary who contributed half of his Chromosomes.
For him to be conceived free from sin was she also?
The Catholics say yes.hmmm.
Me: No, Christ’s mother Mary inherited death and thus was a sinner like we all are. On the other hand, Christ did not inherit sin because he was made of the chromosomes of both his Father David and his mother Mary supernaturally and by-passed death that was passed on through all men by inheritance.
Matt 3:8 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
A body without a spirit is dead. Jas 2
But you say God gave a dead body His own Spirit.
Sorry but your teaching here has become far too strange.
Me: no Nick, it is your understanding of what I said and of scripture that is strange.
You had written:
The Spirit given to Jesus did not leave him but raised him after he visited the spirits in prison . 1Peter 3.
Me: This contradicts your statement at the beginning of this post that God does not give a dead body his spirit. But he rose Christ’s dead body from the grave, didn’t he? This is the same Christ that you insist did not have the spirit of God in him till Jordan.
Hi Gene:
You wrote:
TC…Rom 8:11 ..But if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from THE DEAD dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from THE DEAD shall also quicken you mortal (dead) BODIES by his Spirit that dwells in you.
That same Spirit is what raised Jesus’ DEAD BODY, FROM THE GRAVE.
TC, we must realize Jesus was truly dead when he died, there was nothing about him that was still alive in some neither world, but he was actually dead, and would have still been dead to this day had the GOD the father not raised him back to a living soul again, after he died his SOUL WOULD HAVE CORRUPTED IN THE GRAVE, but because he never sinned GOD did not allow his “SOUL” (body), TO SEE CORRUPTION. JUST AS SCRIPTURES SAYS. I believe you already know this TC.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Me: True
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
I will paraphrase your statements since there is a pile of posts to dig through. You said that it was a popular notion for those to quote 2 Cor 5:8 put does not prove we go to heaven if we are baptize and die before the first resurrection.
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
You : wanted me to show you that the OT saints had to be baptized in their state of death to be saved. This is not a physical baptism in physical water but a baptism of the spirit.
Me:
If one has the spirit of God in him and is led by it, he is a son of God. But wait, the prophets and saints in the OT was led by the spirit of God and where not called the sons of God. Only Adam, which was the first of the present age of man, was called the son God, but the physical son of God. Only in the NT do we find the phrase “sons of God” as it pertains to man. One becomes a son of God when he is baptized with the holy spirit, (he dies with Christ) and is resurrected with him. As Christ is the son of God, we put on Christ and become sons of God. The Messiah’s mind is now in the spirit, this allows for the baptism of the holy spirit after Christ’s ascension. This is the promise of the spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved…
Me: It is reasonable to conjure at this point, that the baptism spoken of here is the baptism of the holy spirit and not water for those that died before Christ. .
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Me: Two requirements are noted, born of the spirit and born of water. Both are found in John 7:37-39 below.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 39 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet ____because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Me: The holy spirit did not flow freely into and out of Christ’s matured mind in it until after he was glorified. This is the promise of the holy spirit.
Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath (G 639) be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 14 Thou shalt call (John 5:25 below), and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
cont. from the last post:
Notice wrath here in Job is addressing the crucifixion. The wrath of God against the wicket occurs after the righteous dead are resurrected from their sleep in the earth and rest in Christ. This occurs in John 5:25 after the Messiah’s ascension into heaven
G 639) angry, before, countenance, face, forbearing, forehead, longsuffering, nose,
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour (time) is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear (Job 14:14 above) the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Comment:.
Be aware that all the translations Acts 2:34 except the KJV have “had not” and not “is not”. Psalm 110:1 is a prophecy of the resurrected and glorified Christ. David is present at this time (Acts 2:33-36)
Per 1 Peter 3:18-21 Christ raised the spirits in person after he had ascended into heaven and became the son of God with power (John 5:25). Where there is spirit, there is the mind of spirit. There he baptized them with the holy spirit. “Visited the spirits that were in prison does not mean that he had to be in hades to do that. The holy spirit with Christ in it became the new spirit in their minds
Hi Nick,
Nick wrote (to paraphrase):
You can’t count on 2 Cor 5:6 alone as support that Christians go to heaven after they die.
Me:
I had shown you a whole slew of scripture to support my view. Let’s look at the context of 2 Cor 5:6.
2 Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Me: We will continue to rest in Christ, not in the earth.
I had also shown you that the rest in Christ is a conscious one that is different from those that die without the spirit of God in them.
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest (G373) yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
- anapauó NASB Translation
give…rest (1), refresh (1), refreshed (3), rest (3), resting (2), rests (1), take your ease (1).
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
asleep (3), sleep (1), sleeping (1), slept (1), smolders (1), who fall asleep (1), who sleep (1).
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep (G2837)…14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
G2837: asleep (3), dead (1), fallen asleep (7), fell asleep (3), sleep (2), sleeping (2).
Me: Those that rest in Christ are alive with the holy spirit in their minds.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Me: Without getting into the seventh day sabbath, the rest we have now in Christ carries over at our deaths.
2 Cor 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Me: The Messiah corrected Mary because she thought that the resurrection into life occurred at the last day. The resurrection into heaven is of now. Our bodies are changed at the last day, not the resurrection of our minds into the spirit. This initially happens at baptism where we receive the earnest of the spirit, that is like a down payment. We die with Christ and are resurrected with him into life. When we die in good stead, we are with Christ in heaven.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the age Amien.
1 Thes 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep (G2837)
G2837: one definition: metaphorically, to still, calm, quiet,
Me: I feel this is the right definition in light of the next verse.
1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Comment: “Them in clouds” are the spiritually resurrect saints that will put on the bodies reserved for them in heaven. Those alive and well will have their bodies changed.
Hi TC,
So you think the death of Jesus was when he gave the Holy Spirit back to the Father.
Sorry but you do not understand that he was a man like you and I and his human spirit left him at death.
Ecc12.
The Faithful Spirit NEVER leaves the anointed ones even in death.
Remember the sign of Jonah.
Hi TC,
You say that Mary had half her chromosomes from David??
All the sons of Adam inherit sin and death.
Davd was not a perfect man was he?
Hi TC,
To see scriptural truth as ABSURD is normal for natural men.
You must be born again from above to see the kingdom.
Hi TC,
From James we know that a body without a spirit is dead.
No scripture says that Jesus was conceived differently without a human spirit.(dead)
Hi TC,
The Sons f Gd have yet to be REVEALED.
But we know that the anointed men Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive to God.
- anapauó NASB Translation
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