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Hi TC,
If you read Jn 14 you will see that Thomas was in the audience when Jesus explained his spiritual unity with the Father.
’ He who has seen me has seen the Father’
The Teacher really got through to Thomas.
So when he saw Jesus in John 20.28 he said
’ My Lord
AND
My God’
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
When you speak of Christ you speak of the anointing.
Jesus was made both Lord and Christ.
The Son of Adam became the Spiritual Son of God through his anointing at the Jordan
You:
You showed us prophetic verses about the anointed one and claim they tell us he was anointed before birth?
Where is the order in all of this
You:
Acts 10 tells us that JESUS OF NAZARETH WAS ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER.
Not the unnamed embryo or the infant or the child Jesus.
The anointing is always manifested.
Such manifestations only occurred after the Jordan.
You seem to be speaking from sort of theological base here.
Me:
Young’s Literal Translation
Luke 2:31 And the messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing (G 1080: embryo) shall be called Son of God;G 1080 NASB Translation
bear (1), bearing children (1), became the father of (4), became…father (1), begotten (4), bore (1), born (41), Child (1), conceived (1), father (37), Father (1), gave (1), gives birth (1), produce (1).Me: The Messiah was holy with the spirit of God in him at conception. Read the above ”that holy thing”.
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Me: He was named Jesus and called Emmanuel before he came into existence. How do I know? Because Matt 1:21-23 says so. “shall bring forth a son” .> ‘”shall call his name Jesus”. “Shall bring forth a son > “and they shall call his name Emmanuel”.
Me:
Luke 2:31 and Matt 1:21 is an anointment if I ever saw one. The Messiah was conceived supernaturally in the womb of his mother Mary by the spirit of God. He was holy when he was conceived and called the son of God when he was born. He was anointed to be savior.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Me:
Christ was called the son of God from birth. Therfore, he had the spirit of God in him from birth.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake…At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Me: The holy spirit is the conduit that binds everyone’s minds together. Before the Messiah was born in the flesh he was called holy. He had been anointed with the spirit of God in the womb of his mother in Luke 2:31 above.
You:
The Son of Adam became the Spiritual Son of God through his anointing at the Jordan
Me:
False.
Luke 2:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:.40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Comment: Jordan came later in Luke 3:22-23). Notice that the Messiah was strong in the spirit before Jordan.
Matt 23:8 (NIV) “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi (4461: master or teacher),’ for you have one Teacher (1320: master or teacher), and you are all brothers…10 Nor are you to be called leaders (2519: a leader or master), for you have one leader (master), the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
Born again is a process. Becoming Lord is a process. Being sons of God with power involves a process. Beget and then being born fully.
Acts 2: 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David had not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Comment:
- So, the begotten embryo became the son of God at his physical birth.
- Anointing by God is for a function to be fulfilled in the future The son of God received more and special power of the holy spirit at Jordan to perform miracles, heal the sick, withstand the temptations of the devil, etc. That was his special mission.
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee
Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Comment: Notice that anointing is affiliated with being begotten or born in Psalm 45:7.
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Me:
This is not an anointing or being begotten of the spirit at Jordan but after Christ was glorified.
Hi TC,
So you do not believe that the Messiah was born like us but prefer the traditional idea of a different being.
Can you follow him?
Psalm 2:6-7
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/isaiah-9-6
Isa 9:6 the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty Hero, Father of the Coming Age, Prince of Peace…7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of Davidhttp://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/9-6.htm
From the author: he will reign on David’s throne (v. 7), which could never be said of God. God could never sit on David’s throne
The phrase translated “Mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6 in the NIV in the Hebrew, el gibbor. That very phrase, in the plural form, is used Ezekiel 32:21 where dead “heroes” and mighty men.However, the phrase is mistranslated. The word translated “everlasting” is actually “age,” and the correct translation is that Jesus will be called “father of the [coming] age.”
“Father” was being used in the cultural understanding of either one who was the first to do something or someone who was important in some way. Because the Messiah will be the one to establish the age to come, raise the dead into it, and rule over it, he is called “the father of the coming age.”
Comment. Nowwhere does Isa 9:6 or any other scripture call the Messiah Almighty God. The Messiah became Lord and Master in the coming age as an agent of the almighty
- The son of God from his physical birth became the son of God with power after his ascension into heaven. This was this anointing to be Lord and Christ with power. The anointing as the sacrificial lamb was accomplished before his ascension into heaven.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David “had not” ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made (G4160) that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord (G2962) and Christ.
- The master (Lord) was so from his physical birth.
- The Messiah became master and Lord with power when he ascended into heaven.
Comment: The best definition for “made” (G5160) in Acts 2:36 would have been a continuous process until after Christ was glorified. Be aware that all the translations Acts 2:34 except the KJV have “had not” and not “is not”. Psalm 110:1 is a prophecy of the resurrected and glorified Christ. David is present at this time.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Me:
How was Christ the only begotten son of the father. Christ was the only one begotten with the spirit of God as his only spirit in his one mind.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/2-31.htm
Me:
Acts 2:31 does not have soul in it.
A better translation of soul in Isa 53:12 would be life.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/23-46.htm
A better translation of soul in Luke 23:46 would be “ the Spirit in me”, that is the holy spirit in his mind.
A better translation of “receive my spirit” would be “ to receive the spirit of me”.
To name a few.
Eph 4:4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
1 Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain (seed): 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
Comment: Our physical present: mind (and heart), spirit will die, and body are images of what our spiritual presence will be. As previously stated, man dies to spirit and his human mind. His human mind was made in the image of his spirit mind that was to be. A new heart of flesh, that of Christ, will replace the old heart.
Hi TC,
His name shall be called Emmanuel?
You ignore the SHALL BE CALLED and change it to WAS CALLED.?
Hi TC,
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.
Was Jesus anointed with and led by the Spirit of God while on earth?
Scripture says he was led by the Spirit after he was baptised at the Jordan(Lk 4.1) but you disagree?
Hi TC,
Anointed in the womb?
Scripture says that about John but not about the one we can follow.
Do not get confused about the prophetic statements in the prophetic word (2 peter.1.19) I suggest.
So you do not believe that the Messiah was born like us but prefer the traditional idea of a different being.
Can you follow him?
Me: I believe the Messiah was born like us, but not without sin and with the holy spirit in him at conception. This is scripture as I have shown you. So he was born without sin like the first Adam was before he sinned, and he was born with a spirit like us, except it was the holy spirit. He was still a man before he ascended into heaven. He did not pre-exist except in the mind of God. In the end, we will be like him but are not like him now.
At Christ’s conception and birth “he was the only begotten son of God. This means one of Kind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogen%C4%93s
Tell me, how else was the Messiah “one of kind”.
Christ is the express image of God that we are created in.
Hi TC,
You insist he was not born like yet claim he was like us.
Born sinless and anointed you say but then you claim he was just like us.
Do you agree he was tempted as we are? Where does temptation come from according to James?
Did he not have indwelling lusts as we are born with?
He calls himself an overcomer in Rev3.
Do you deny the Spirit came onto him at the Jordan or do you believe in two or three anointings?
Hi Nick,
His name shall be called Emmanuel?
You ignore the SHALL BE CALLED and change it to WAS CALLED.?
Me: I explained it to you already. “He shall be called Emmanuel” before he was born and must have been called Emmanuel after he was born. This is a point that doesn’t prove anything. It’s called nit picking.
Again,
Young’s Literal Translation
Luke 2:31 And the messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing (G 1080: embryo) shall be called Son of God;G 1080 NASB Translation
bear (1), bearing children (1), became the father of (4), became…father (1), begotten (4), bore (1), born (41), Child (1), conceived (1), father (37), Father (1), gave (1), gives birth (1), produce (1).Me: The Messiah was holy with the spirit of God in him at conception. Read the above ”that holy thing”.
Christ was called the son of God and Emmanuel at his birth. Those were the names assigned to him before his birth
Hi TC,
You must be careful how you handle the precious words of God but you call it nit picking?
Every vessel used by God is Holy.
Hi TC,
You say Jesus was not born with a human spirit yet claim he was a man.
Scripture says he gave up his spirit at his death on Calvary.
Do you think he lost the Holy Spirit then?
Hi Nick:
Nick: You insist he was not born like yet claim he was like us.
Me: Read the scriptures again. He was like us when we were following the spirit, not the flesh.
Nick: Born sinless and anointed you say but then you claim he was just like us.
Me: How can Christ be the perfect sacrifice with sin or blemish. This is elementary. He was like us in our spirit man. He was not like us as sinners.
You: Do you agree he was tempted as we are? Where does temptation come from according to James?
Me: yes, but since he had the holy spirit in him from conception, he could not sin. This is like us, that cannot sin if we follow the spirit and not the flesh.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
You: You insist he was not born like yet claim he was like us.
Me: He was like us in every way after we were born of the spirit and following the spirit and not the flesh.
You: Born sinless and anointed you say but then you claim he was just like us.
Me: answered above:
You: Do you agree he was tempted as we are? Where does temptation come from according to James?
Me:
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
He was tempted like we were, but he did not have the weakness of the flesh to submit to it. For we all sin. But he didn’t.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Me: Christ did not sin. He did not have death in his flesh.
Romans 5:12xWherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, whereby all have sinned:
You: Did he not have indwelling lusts as we are born with?’
Me: No: He could have sinned without the indwelling lusts in him like when Adam had first sinned. There was always that potential to submitting to sin and activating inborn lusts in his flesh. Then his body of the flesh would be of the devil. For whosever sin is of the devil.
You: Do you deny the Spirit came onto him at the Jordan or do you believe in two or three anointings?
Me: Again,
False.
Luke 2:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:.40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Comment: Jordan came later in Luke 3:22-23). Notice that the Messiah was strong in the spirit before Jordan.
Hi TC,
Is it reasonable to ask us sinners to follow someone who had such a head start?
No need for him to fight for his soul was there.
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
You say Jesus was not born with a human spirit yet claim he was a man.
Scripture says he gave up his spirit at his death on Calvary.
Do you think he lost the Holy Spirit then?
Me: I had answered that. Again,
How was Christ the only begotten son of the father. Christ was the only one begotten with the spirit of God as his only spirit in his one mind.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/2-31.htm
Me
Acts 2:31 does not have soul in it.
A better translation of soul in Isa 53:12 would be life.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/23-46.htm
A better translation of soul in Luke 23:46 would be “ the Spirit in me”, that is the holy spirit in his mind.
A better translation of “receive my spirit” would be “ to receive the spirit of me”.To name a few.
Eph 4:4: There is one body, and one Spirit, …
Me: In the end, there is only one spirit.
Christ had the mind of a man. He had the spirit of God in him.
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